Is Atlanta the worst drafting team?
- Thread starter Gnashville
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Gone Hollywood
Jim Slater was a late 1st rounder who has excelled in his first year in the NHL, getting bumped up to the 2nd line and has scored 3 goals so far.
Garnett Exelby is into his 2nd year on the blueline, 6th or 7th rounder I believe.
Pasi Nurminen was a two year starter, overage European taken maybe in the 7th or 8th.
Darcy Hordichuk has been a regular NHLer almost since he was taken in the 6th.
The early years were a bit rough outside the 1st round, but they plenty of unheralded picks that are lighting it up right now in the juniors and college hockey.
Garnett Exelby is into his 2nd year on the blueline, 6th or 7th rounder I believe.
Pasi Nurminen was a two year starter, overage European taken maybe in the 7th or 8th.
Darcy Hordichuk has been a regular NHLer almost since he was taken in the 6th.
The early years were a bit rough outside the 1st round, but they plenty of unheralded picks that are lighting it up right now in the juniors and college hockey.
Gnashville said:
Toronto doesn't have the best draft history, but they haven't had good draft position so it's tough to judge. There are many examples, but that Doherty pick in 2003 was certainly a disaster of epic proportions...
New Jersey, Ottawa and Detroit all do excellent jobs with their draft picks.
I don't know what the take is on Jim Slater, but he might become a decent third line player despite the fact he was picked in the first round.
btn
Gone Hollywood
I think he was projected as a 2nd/3rd line C when picked, but right now he is a little ball of energy on the 2nd line as a winger. He had a dandy of a pass between his legs a couple of games ago, and tonight he scored a goal that would have people going nuts if his last name was Crosby. He and Bourret are going to be a force together.
btn said:
Agreed, although not quite to the degree you specified.
If people have such a problem with Slater being picked in the 1st round, what about Eric Nystrom of Calgary?
A good pick IMOTransportedUpstater said:
Alot of HF just doesn't seem to appriciate teams who pick the "right" player. They'd rather see the best talent available.
Phanuthier said:
I don't disagree with you. I think Nystrom fits the Flames' system.
I'm just saying, why do people have more of a problem with Slater, when he was a later pick than Nystrom was?
st. louis isnt that good as far back as i can remember.
vancouver doesnt have the best history either.
vancouver doesnt have the best history either.
They're not great but they're not bad either.
It's a difficult position to be in when you're consistently drafting top-5 overall. Either your drafting is poor, or you just got players because you were drafting so high.
And this is doubly so when you have drafts like 2001-2003 for Atlanta ... Waddell traded away a ton of picks, and in those three drafts the team had only two other picks combined in the top-100 of the draft outside of their #1 picks (Slater and Garnett). That's not giving your scouts a ton to work with.
In 1999, they picked Exelby (currently a top-4 guy for them) very late. 2000 they take Hordichuk late. 2001 they took Nurminen, who was a solid #1 netminder before his inury very late. 2002, in a terrible draft they pick up Slater at #30. All very nice picks. Certainly better than teams like Vancouver, TB, Phoenix have done in the mid-late parts of the draft over that period. So they're definitely not the worst-drafting team in the league.
Their only real big blunder so far was the Valabic pick, which is looking pretty suspect right now. But their 2005 draft looks really strong.
It's a difficult position to be in when you're consistently drafting top-5 overall. Either your drafting is poor, or you just got players because you were drafting so high.
And this is doubly so when you have drafts like 2001-2003 for Atlanta ... Waddell traded away a ton of picks, and in those three drafts the team had only two other picks combined in the top-100 of the draft outside of their #1 picks (Slater and Garnett). That's not giving your scouts a ton to work with.
In 1999, they picked Exelby (currently a top-4 guy for them) very late. 2000 they take Hordichuk late. 2001 they took Nurminen, who was a solid #1 netminder before his inury very late. 2002, in a terrible draft they pick up Slater at #30. All very nice picks. Certainly better than teams like Vancouver, TB, Phoenix have done in the mid-late parts of the draft over that period. So they're definitely not the worst-drafting team in the league.
Their only real big blunder so far was the Valabic pick, which is looking pretty suspect right now. But their 2005 draft looks really strong.
barfy2000 said:
The Blues made the playoffs for 25 straight years and lost alot of 1st round picks to trades/awards for compensation. Despite not drafting early...
Handzus 4th - 95
Hecht 2nd - 95
Nagy 7th - 97
Jackman 1st - 99
Backman 1st - 98
Stempiniak 5th - 03
McClement 2nd - 01
Reasoner - 1st - 96
Cajanek - 8th - 01
Not great by any means but not the worst.
Belizarius
Registered User
Recap here for Atlanta :
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr001790.html
A lot of minor leaguers in fact... some good picks but not even 1 or 2 by draft... If the 2002 to 2005 picks are not very good in a couple of years, I'll say it's a bad drafting team.
For an expansion team, it's a must to find some good players... Columbus failed, Minnesota succeeded : that's why the Wild made the playoffs in 3 years and Nashville in 6, and that's why Atlanta and Columbus still haven't reach the playoffs.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr001790.html
A lot of minor leaguers in fact... some good picks but not even 1 or 2 by draft... If the 2002 to 2005 picks are not very good in a couple of years, I'll say it's a bad drafting team.
For an expansion team, it's a must to find some good players... Columbus failed, Minnesota succeeded : that's why the Wild made the playoffs in 3 years and Nashville in 6, and that's why Atlanta and Columbus still haven't reach the playoffs.
Gnashville
HFBoards Hall of Famer
The Wild made the playoff with great coaching and very few of their own drafted guys. Atlanta and Columbus have drafted poorly no doubt, considering their postion in each of the rounds and drafts is usually top 5.Belizarius said:
Gnashville
HFBoards Hall of Famer
Slater has been ok so farbtn said:
Exelby has played in 103 game over 3 seasons
Nurminen was an average goalie
Hordichuk has played on 4 teams and 140+ games the most of any Atlanta pick not #1 or #2 overall
Atlanta is currently rated 15th on hockey's futures org ratings
Why does that qualify them as one of the best drafting teams according to most draft experts and reporters? I just don't get why they get all of this love ditto Columbus to a lesser extent
LoonieToon
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- Nov 15, 2005
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Atlanta did ok (not spectacular) until they his the jackpot with Heatley and Kovalchuk. Heatley was not a no-brainer he's perceived as now - there was some doubt about his ability to adjust to the NHL, believe it or not. In short, Atlanta has done as well as could be expected.btn said:
Gnashville said:
Let me tell something first. I think that your team the Predators have done an excellent job of finding talent in the draft.
Kovalchuk, Heatley, Coburn and Lehtonen are an awesome foursome and that's probably why they get all the props. Other than that I have to agree with you, that the first five drafts have been pretty weak. Exelby, Nurnminen and the other guys that btn mentioned stick out, but that was it.
As a Thrasher fan, I really hope that the 2005 Draft set the pattern for future drafts. Bourret, Pavelec and Lavallee look promising and were drafted this year.
Gnashville said:
I wouldn't say that they're the worst drafting team at all. Almost no one won out of the '99 draft save St. Louis and Ottawa with Jackman and Havlat respectively in the 1st round. From 2000-2002 they had top 3 each time and since then they've only had 3 years in which to draft "smartly".
Although no one will believe me, I was saying that Phaneuf should've been the 1st defenceman to go in '03, but Coburn was a fine selection and should be a superb no. 2 for years to come. IMO it will be pretty hard to find a bad pick in the 1st round of '03 (although I think Carter will make a fine case in three years
) but they still came out winners. '04 and '05? There's no point in discussing it (though Wolski, Radulov and Meszy would have been better in '04 right now) becuase you can't determine boom/bust at this point.Drafting "smart" sometimes has a lot to do with luck and willingness to take a risk. In Ottawa's case, Igor Mirnov could either become the next Brad Richards or the next Igor Radulov (in terms of NHL success NOT in style of play of course). Havlat could've easily become Mikhail Kuleshov. "Smart" drafting requires big cajones and luck has a part in determining how a player will develop.
I'm gonna have to say Washington. What have they drafted in the last 10 years? (Ovechkin doesn't count)
I guess the Oilers would have to be contenders, with the Bonsignores, Steve Kelly and Niinimaki...
They did turn it around recently... And they had some beauties in the later rounds...
They did turn it around recently... And they had some beauties in the later rounds...
Douggy
Registered User
Gnashville
HFBoards Hall of Famer
The Preds probably had one of the best drafts of anyone in 99Pete Rock said:I wouldn't say that they're the worst drafting team at all. Almost no one won out of the '99 draft save St. Louis and Ottawa with Jackman and Havlat respectively in the 1st round. From 2000-2002 they had top 3 each time and since then they've only had 3 years in which to draft "smartly".
Although no one will believe me, I was saying that Phaneuf should've been the 1st defenceman to go in '03, but Coburn was a fine selection and should be a superb no. 2 for years to come. IMO it will be pretty hard to find a bad pick in the 1st round of '03 (although I think Carter will make a fine case in three years
Drafting "smart" sometimes has a lot to do with luck and willingness to take a risk. In Ottawa's case, Igor Mirnov could either become the next Brad Richards or the next Igor Radulov (in terms of NHL success NOT in style of play of course). Havlat could've easily become Mikhail Kuleshov. "Smart" drafting requires big cajones and luck has a part in determining how a player will develop.
(not the 1st round though)Drafting with your 1st pick is the easy part my point is Atlanta rarely finds anyone above average in the following rounds, yet is talked about as a top 5 drafting team by some people.
BTW Suter was the first D-man taken in the 2003 draft and he's doing just fine.
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