IIHF's take on proposed Euro Super League

[guymez]

Interesting read on the viability of a proposed Euro super league. Refreshing to see an article based on some research....for a change.

http://www.iihf.com/news/iihfpr4905.htm

Click to read more...

 

[kruezer]

Interesting read on the viability of a proposed Euro super league. Refreshing to see an article based on some research....for a change.

http://www.iihf.com/news/iihfpr4905.htm

Definetaly a good article.

I like what the IIHF is trying to do though, stick with the established teams and run Champions League.

 

[Pepper]

"NHL better watch out or the European leagues steal all the top talent"

"good luck NHL trying to implement a salary cap, players will flee to Europe and make almost as much money"

"Players can always go to Europe and get huge amounts of money while owners keep making losses"

When will the pro-PA yahoos accept the fact that Europe can't compete with NHL in any way??

 

[Raimo Sillanpää]

The Champions League won't work though.

I'll tell you why, in football the contest is over 50 years old, and the teams have become so big, that their previous rivals have become so small in comparison :
Manchester United (global) Manchester City (Manchester)
Arsenal, Chelsea (global) Tottenham etc (London)
Milan, Inter, Juventus etc (global) Atalanta, Napoli etc (Italian city)
Real Madrid (global) Athletico Madrid (Madrid)
Barcelona, Valencia etc (global) Espanyol, Sociedad etc (spanish city)

That new rivalries have formed.
Real Madrid vs AC Milan ,Manchester United vs Bayern Munich etc etc

Nobody except Southampton fans care about Southampton vs Arsenal, half of europe wants to watch Arsenal vs Barcelona though..


But in european hockey, the rivalries will never grow to compete.
Kärpät played in the Super 6, whoop-de-doo, kärpät finishing first in the SM-Liiga table -> *wild cheers*
HIFK vs Lugano -> whoop-de-doo
HIFK vs Jokerit -> WAR


No, if you want a big successful european league or super league in hockey, you must start from a position of strenght.
I've always felt the most logical and smartest move to do that would be to start by merging the Finnish and Swedish leagues into one.
- short distances
- finns vs swedes
- easy travel between the two countries
- just as easy for TPS fan to travel to Stockholm to see a game than it is to travel to Oulu

That keeps the exisitng rivalries (Hifk vs Jokerit, jokerit vs tps, tappara vs ilves etc) and has a very very good possibility of adding more -> TPS vs MoDo, Jokerit vs Djurgarden etc

It also allows you to easily keep two conferences -> East: Finland, West: Sweden

And provides a natural spot from which to expand:
create teams/franchises like the Oslo Nordiques (cound't resist that :p), Copenhagen Cavaliers, Tallinn Tigers
and bring in exisiting teams in a new form:
SK Riga, mayeb some other Latvian teams (hockey is huge in Latvia)

and eventually expand further by getting teams from germany, the czech, slovakia, russia, etc to join.

Basically it gives as a viable business option, every possible way to expand. Norway and Oslo could probably support a team there's enouhg fans for one team, there isnt enough fans for a norwegian league, but this short cut would be of immense help to them.
There already was talk of having an estonian team in the Finnish Mestis last season, it was cancelled at the 11th hour.

SK Riga could be a huge team, but its stuck in that eastern european league or whatever it is. Back in the soviet days it was a big strong team that played in front of huge crowds vs the best of Moscow.


Also the Finnish-Swedish league is good for business for both countrie's companies, be it regional companies like clothing stores, to multi-nationals to joint finnish-swedish companies.
Now that bonnier bought Alma Media, they have a tv channel in both finland and sweden. So the distribution outlet exists, the sponsorhip exists.

It is the natural route, I feel any other way of trying to provide a big super duper euro league will fail.
It needs to be built on existing strenght, and it needs to be able to expand in batches (say if Swiss teams get invited to the league, no use adding one , say Fribourg, by itself. they need their rivals to join too, so adding Fribourg, Lugano, Bern, Zurich overnight is the way to go)

Remember, the last time the EHL chrashed, was beacuse Finnish and Swedish teams would play home games against Frankfurt, Bern, Prague etc in empty arenas. Now this super 6 is in russia for 3 years, not exactly making fans over here.
It just took place, kinda like a pre-season tournament.

 

[kruezer]

The Champions League won't work though.

I'll tell you why, in football the contest is over 50 years old, and the teams have become so big, that their previous rivals have become so small in comparison :
Manchester United (global) Manchester City (Manchester)
Arsenal, Chelsea (global) Tottenham etc (London)
Milan, Inter, Juventus etc (global) Atalanta, Napoli etc (Italian city)
Real Madrid (global) Athletico Madrid (Madrid)
Barcelona, Valencia etc (global) Espanyol, Sociedad etc (spanish city)

That new rivalries have formed.
Real Madrid vs AC Milan ,Manchester United vs Bayern Munich etc etc

Nobody except Southampton fans care about Southampton vs Arsenal, half of europe wants to watch Arsenal vs Barcelona though..


But in european hockey, the rivalries will never grow to compete.
Kärpät played in the Super 6, whoop-de-doo, kärpät finishing first in the SM-Liiga table -> *wild cheers*
HIFK vs Lugano -> whoop-de-doo
HIFK vs Jokerit -> WAR


No, if you want a big successful european league or super league in hockey, you must start from a position of strenght.
I've always felt the most logical and smartest move to do that would be to start by merging the Finnish and Swedish leagues into one.
- short distances
- finns vs swedes
- easy travel between the two countries
- just as easy for TPS fan to travel to Stockholm to see a game than it is to travel to Oulu

That keeps the exisitng rivalries (Hifk vs Jokerit, jokerit vs tps, tappara vs ilves etc) and has a very very good possibility of adding more -> TPS vs MoDo, Jokerit vs Djurgarden etc

It also allows you to easily keep two conferences -> East: Finland, West: Sweden

And provides a natural spot from which to expand:
create teams/franchises like the Oslo Nordiques (cound't resist that :p), Copenhagen Cavaliers, Tallinn Tigers
and bring in exisiting teams in a new form:
SK Riga, mayeb some other Latvian teams (hockey is huge in Latvia)

and eventually expand further by getting teams from germany, the czech, slovakia, russia, etc to join.

Basically it gives as a viable business option, every possible way to expand. Norway and Oslo could probably support a team there's enouhg fans for one team, there isnt enough fans for a norwegian league, but this short cut would be of immense help to them.
There already was talk of having an estonian team in the Finnish Mestis last season, it was cancelled at the 11th hour.

SK Riga could be a huge team, but its stuck in that eastern european league or whatever it is. Back in the soviet days it was a big strong team that played in front of huge crowds vs the best of Moscow.


Also the Finnish-Swedish league is good for business for both countrie's companies, be it regional companies like clothing stores, to multi-nationals to joint finnish-swedish companies.
Now that bonnier bought Alma Media, they have a tv channel in both finland and sweden. So the distribution outlet exists, the sponsorhip exists.

It is the natural route, I feel any other way of trying to provide a big super duper euro league will fail.
It needs to be built on existing strenght, and it needs to be able to expand in batches (say if Swiss teams get invited to the league, no use adding one , say Fribourg, by itself. they need their rivals to join too, so adding Fribourg, Lugano, Bern, Zurich overnight is the way to go)

Remember, the last time the EHL chrashed, was beacuse Finnish and Swedish teams would play home games against Frankfurt, Bern, Prague etc in empty arenas. Now this super 6 is in russia for 3 years, not exactly making fans over here.
It just took place, kinda like a pre-season tournament.

I don't know, Its been a while since I lived in Europe, so I could be way off, but a ECC seems like a good starting point, even if its on too large to a scale to be wildly succesful right off the bat (Though I definetaly agree with the point about it being in Russia the first 3 years is not the best idea, better to have it as at the homes of the top teams I think, and taking the top two teams from each league might be a better idea).

But I agree, I don't think having an actual league is all that good of an idea, just a championship, sticking with a tournament style instead of a creating an elite league for all of Europe.

Maybe having regional championships first is a better technique?

 

[Raimo Sillanpää]

I don't know, Its been a while since I lived in Europe, so I could be way off, but a ECC seems like a good starting point, even if its on too large to a scale to be wildly succesful right off the bat (Though I definetaly agree with the point about it being in Russia the first 3 years is not the best idea, better to have it as at the homes of the top teams I think, and taking the top two teams from each league might be a better idea).

But I agree, I don't think having an actual league is all that good of an idea, just a championship, sticking with a tournament style instead of a creating an elite league for all of Europe.

Maybe having regional championships first is a better technique?

My point was that a tournament woudn work as it woudnt be a natural place for the fan to instill his fandom into.
You'd need to build that, and the only way to bypass that 50 year waiting period would be to merge leagues.

 

[Fredrik]

A major obstacle is also the arrogance of Swedish fans and clubs. They have long assumed that the Swedish league is the second best behind NHL. This may or may not be true but it means there is absolutely no interest in seeing foreign teams coming to Sweden. I think it's a shame.

 

[Riddarn]

Damn, that article pretty much said it all. Very good read for those of you that actually believe in the threat of europe.

 

[Russian Fan]

"NHL better watch out or the European leagues steal all the top talent"

"good luck NHL trying to implement a salary cap, players will flee to Europe and make almost as much money"

"Players can always go to Europe and get huge amounts of money while owners keep making losses"

When will the pro-PA yahoos accept the fact that Europe can't compete with NHL in any way??

The same day, you will acknowledge, that the world does not resolve around North America.

 

[Schlep Rock]

"NHL better watch out or the European leagues steal all the top talent"

"good luck NHL trying to implement a salary cap, players will flee to Europe and make almost as much money"

"Players can always go to Europe and get huge amounts of money while owners keep making losses"

When will the pro-PA yahoos accept the fact that Europe can't compete with NHL in any way??

A. The European leagues would have some of the top talent if the NHL did start mid-year since a lot of players passed their cut off dates. But most would return next year.

B. I haven't seen anybody here say if the NHL implements a salary cap, all the players will run to Europe. If somebody has, they're seriously mistaken.

C. This is just a generic statement so there's no arguement.

I have to say though, some of the European teams could beat some of the NHL's bottom feeders.

 

[Pepper]

A. The European leagues would have some of the top talent if the NHL did start mid-year since a lot of players passed their cut off dates. But most would return next year.

No player in FEL had any cut-off date in their lock-out contract so all of them would have returned to NA.

B. I haven't seen anybody here say if the NHL implements a salary cap, all the players will run to Europe. If somebody has, they're seriously mistaken.

There have been few diehard yahoos who believed that most if not all top players would flee to europe, especially european ones.

 

[Pepper]

The same day, you will acknowledge, that the world does not resolve around North America.

Well in hockey it does. The sooner you realize & accept that the sooner you will get over your bitterness towards owners.

 

[Schlep Rock]

No player in FEL had any cut-off date in their lock-out contract so all of them would have returned to NA.

The Finnish Elite League is a nice league but it is one league. There are/were several NHLers with cut off dates in their contracts. Kovalchuk wasn't the only one.

There have been few diehard yahoos who believed that most if not all top players would flee to europe, especially european ones.

Well, you can look at it two ways... the Europeans are just that, Europeans to technically they fled their countries for the NHL. Or you can say they're now NHLers so they'd be fleeing the NHL.

Every year a few NHLers go/return to Europe (fringe players) and that may happen in a larger number next year. A player who'd be on the NHL minimum or up to $500k who has to battle prospects in camp for a spot might like the security and the opportunity to see another part of the world (marital status is likely the biggest issue).

And to you, they're yahoos, but to them they make sense.

 

[Riddarn]

The Finnish Elite League is a nice league but it is one league. There are/were several NHLers with cut off dates in their contracts. Kovalchuk wasn't the only one.

It's the same in the SEL. The transfer window was only a restriction for the times when clubs could sign new players. If the NHL started today then any player still under NHL contract would leave in an instant. I'm thankful that Bettman called the season off so that we don't have to worry about that now, since our playoffs started a week ago.

 

[guymez]

Damn, that article pretty much said it all. Very good read for those of you that actually believe in the threat of europe.

I agree. All this talk of viable alternatives (Europe or elsewhere) to the NHL has no substance to it. It sure wouldn't break my heart to see the NHLPA lose a ton of money trying to help finance something.
Then (maybe) they would learn the true meaning of being a partner in business.

 

[Schlep Rock]

It's the same in the SEL. The transfer window was only a restriction for the times when clubs could sign new players. If the NHL started today then any player still under NHL contract would leave in an instant. I'm thankful that Bettman called the season off so that we don't have to worry about that now, since our playoffs started a week ago.

Riddarn,

Keyword: under NHL contract. To my understanding there are a number of players playing in Sweden this year without an NHL contract that had an exit clause in their contract expire. Not all, but some.

No players with NHL contracts were given this clause... they had a clear cut exit clause.

 

[Riddarn]

Riddarn,

Keyword: under NHL contract. To my understanding there are a number of players playing in Sweden this year without an NHL contract that had an exit clause in their contract expire. Not all, but some.

Are you sure about that? Because in the case of Andrew Raycroft, who was supposed to sign with an SEL team, he refused to sign when he heard that because he was without an NHL contract, the SEL rules would not permit him to leave. He would have been forced to play out the season or wait for one of the "transfer windows" in order for his SEL team and IIHF to clear him, if they choose to do so.

Also, some examples:

Mikael Renberg
Andreas Dackell
Peter Forsberg
Mariusz Czerkawski
Christian Berglund
Mathias Tjärnqvist
Hans Jonsson
Mattias Timander
Mikael Samuelsson

I might have missed someone, but these are the NHLers (well, not full time NHL:ers all of them) that have signed an SEL contract without being under contract with an NHL team.

None of these players would be permitted to leave if the NHL started. Sure, I'm convinced that a few of them might try to circumvent the rules by one way or another. But thats another matter really.