If you had to redraft the 2004 picks

Status
Not open for further replies.

Jaded-Fan

Registered User
Mar 18, 2004
52,446
14,304
Pittsburgh
After reading this, all that I can say is thank god the Pens lost one more game than Chicago that year and only got bumped down to two. Hell, thank God they had a better chance because of that at number one the Crosby draft. Unlike some years, the three hole in 2004 and two hole in 2005 were not the most ideal place to be.
 

Sammy*

Guest
Seph said:
Could be, but that doesn't mean it is. All Caniac is saying is that Ladd is showing skills and playing above "just a third liner." Doesn't mean he won't end up a third liner, but he has the potential to play above it. And btw, Kesler also could still end up above the third line as well. He's taken a step back from his hot start, but that doesn't mean his development is over. Both these kids have plenty of time to develop still and determine what role they'll play.

Both have shown that they could have more upside than many here think, but like most prospects, none have proven that they'll make good on it. But unlike a lot of prospects, if they don't make good on their upside, their downside is still awfully good.
You miss my point. He very well may turn out to be a 1st liner (imo he wont). However, people such as Caniac as well as others are critisizing an opinion of him , and their argument is "oh, look what he is doing now, you idiot".
Well , the idiot is the one whose opinion of Ladd is based on stats in 10 games, the idiot is not they guy whose opinion is based on watching him play in junior, his stats in junior & scouting reports.
Again, my opinion could be wrong, but the basis of my opinion at least has a half decent foundation.
 

aspin

Registered User
Sep 13, 2002
1,983
1
Regina
Visit site
oil slick said:
Yeah I'd take him over those two also.

Mind you... they were all only drafted about 10 spots apart, so it's not like Schwarz and Dubnyk were top 5 picks and Schneider was a 3rd rounder or anything.

I'm biased but I am so glad the Oilers took Dubnyk. He is a goalie that just finds a way to be better and learn all the time. You love to see that in a player. His stats on a poor team have been pretty great again this year.

You will notice that he has over 300 more shots than Pogge in about the same amount of games.

http://whl.ca/stats/statdisplay.php...id=225&&leagueId=26&lastActive=&singleSeason=
 

Seph

Registered User
Sep 5, 2002
18,949
1,666
Oregon
Visit site
Sammy said:
You miss my point. He very well may turn out to be a 1st liner (imo he wont). However, people such as Caniac as well as others are critisizing an opinion of him , and their argument is "oh, look what he is doing now, you idiot".
Well , the idiot is the one whose opinion of Ladd is based on stats in 10 games, the idiot is not they guy whose opinion is based on watching him play in junior, his stats in junior & scouting reports.
Again, my opinion could be wrong, but the basis of my opinion at least has a half decent foundation.
I disagree. Caniac is critisizing people who are stating what his upside is and that he won't develop any further. If they stated "I doubt he becomes more than a third liner" I think there'd be less of an argument. I also don't think you can ignore that he's been playing very well this year, in both the AHL and NHL. Yes, that's only 26gms, but I don't think it's fair to ignore it. Especially when the overall sample size to judge Ladd on is rather small in the first place.
 

Vagrant

The Czech Condor
Feb 27, 2002
23,660
8,273
North Carolina
Visit site
Sammy said:
Whats comical is guys who say he will be better than a 3rd liner based on a 10 game window.
Too funny. :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

What is equally as funny to me is you saying he's no more than a 3rd liner while providing not one iota of substantial evidence, and discounting his actual NHL performance all together.
 

Vagrant

The Czech Condor
Feb 27, 2002
23,660
8,273
North Carolina
Visit site
Seph said:
I disagree. Caniac is critisizing people who are stating what his upside is and that he won't develop any further. If they stated "I doubt he becomes more than a third liner" I think there'd be less of an argument. I also don't think you can ignore that he's been playing very well this year, in both the AHL and NHL. Yes, that's only 26gms, but I don't think it's fair to ignore it. Especially when the overall sample size to judge Ladd on is rather small in the first place.
That is exactly the point i'm trying to convey. I'm not here screaming that Ladd is going to be a 50 goal scorer and a John LeClair style power forward, because as was mentioned the sample size is still too incredibly small to make any such claim. However, as small as it may be, it has contained some really impressive offensive production from such a young NHL player. I'm aware that consistancy is the big issue here. My main point is that as premature as it is to call him an offensive force and potential 40 goal scorer, it's just as premature to label him as a 3rd line player. Whatever he's doing, it has to be something right. He's getting in the area of 10:00-15:00 of icetime on the team with the best record in the league. That's a pretty substantial role to start your NHL career.
 

Sammy*

Guest
Caniacforever said:
What is equally as funny to me is you saying he's no more than a 3rd liner while providing not one iota of substantial evidence, and discounting his actual NHL performance all together.
First of all, its an OPINION.
Secondly its reading comprehension time. Do I have to spell out what stats & scouting reports are? Here, I'll give you one.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid[]=62622

and many opinions I have read. I'm not going to do your research for you.
And yes I know that there are many opinions that run contrary to mine.
And I have also seen him play many times.
I think my "substantive evidence" that gives me my opinion is a little more compelling than one relying on stats from 10 games to make an evaluation.
And btw, try reading a little closer. I never said I discounted what he is doing in the NHL. I guess I should spell out next time that I factored into my opinion his 10 games in the NHL. I thought it would kinda be obvious to most, but I guess not.However, unlike some , I dont believe a 10 game window is determinative of ones NHL's capabilities.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Seph

Registered User
Sep 5, 2002
18,949
1,666
Oregon
Visit site
Sammy said:
First of all, its an OPINION.
Secondly its reading comprehension time. Do I have to spell out what stats & scouting reports are? Here, I'll give you one.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid[]=62622

and many opinions I have read. I'm not going to do your research for you.
And yes I know that there are many opinions that run contrary to mine.
And I have also seen him play many times.
I think my "substantive evidence" that gives me my opinion is a little more compelling than one relying on stats from 10 games to make an evaluation.
And btw, try reading a little closer. I never said I discounted what he is doing in the NHL. I guess I should spell out next time that I factored into my opinion his 10 games in the NHL. I thought it would kinda be obvious to most, but I guess not.However, unlike some , I dont believe a 10 game window is determinative of ones NHL's capabilities.
Your statistical evidence reveals that he's had one off season, statistically, and one and a half very good seasons?

You don't believe a 10 game window, or a 15 game window, or even a 71 game window. Yet, that one 65 game window means he has no upside? OK.

Let's do the scouting reports too, since you bring it up:
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=4409&hubname=nhl-hurricanes
"Career potential: Top six winger."

http://63.151.138.177/redlinereport_jun2004DG.htm
"Projection: Legitimate first line power winger. Style compares to: Shane Doan"
 
Last edited:

Vagrant

The Czech Condor
Feb 27, 2002
23,660
8,273
North Carolina
Visit site
Sammy, why are you so angry? We're just talking about a hockey player here, not discussing foreign policy. I think you need to relax a little bit. As for me simply going by "statistics" to formulate my opinion, that couldn't be further from the truth. I've seen every career game that Ladd has played at the NHL level, and i'm not sure you can say the same. For a person arguing that statistics can be an anomoly, you certainly are leaning on them quite a bit for your assesment of Ladd's play, even linking me to his career statistics at hockeydb.com. I appreciate you, "not doing my research for me" by telling me why exactly you think Ladd is a third line player. It's called an opinion, and unless you work for a scouting service it means very little more than mine.
 

Sammy*

Guest
Caniacforever said:
Sammy, why are you so angry? We're just talking about a hockey player here, not discussing foreign policy. I think you need to relax a little bit. As for me simply going by "statistics" to formulate my opinion, that couldn't be further from the truth. I've seen every career game that Ladd has played at the NHL level, and i'm not sure you can say the same. For a person arguing that statistics can be an anomoly, you certainly are leaning on them quite a bit for your assesment of Ladd's play, even linking me to his career statistics at hockeydb.com. I appreciate you, "not doing my research for me" by telling me why exactly you think Ladd is a third line player. It's called an opinion, and unless you work for a scouting service it means very little more than mine.
I only took issue with those who in essence said my Opinion was wrong, on the basis of 10 games , & suggested that I had no clue & asked how I came up with my opinion. I think stats, watching him play & reports from some who have seen him play (scouts & others) is not a bad basis for an opinion.
Anyways, lets move on.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->