If You Could Change One Play Or Moment in NHL/Hockey History.....

HisIceness

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Sep 16, 2010
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For Carolina: What if Brett Hull doesn't tie game 3 with 1:25 or whatever it was left in 2002? HM to what if the Canes don't blow game 82 in 2008 and 2011.

Not sure on a what if but what about New Jersey's moving to Nashville in 1995? Imagine if that happens, what team gets the 27th franchise? Would Seattle get a team at that time? Also with that in mind would Houston get the 32nd team that is being discussed today?

My guess is Houston would have gotten that 27th team in 1998, as the city was about an hour from receiving the Oilers that spring.
 
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Tmu84

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As a Finn there is only one thing I can think of:
Turin 2006 Winter Olympic Games, Sweden - Finland. Olli Jokinen manages to elevate that puck little bit more in the third period and even the score with 25 seconds left. I Still have nightmares about that game.

Or

World Cup final 2004 - Finland finds a way to even the score and everything would have been possible! Then again, when looking at that Canada roster, not sure if that was simply possible. Team Finland simply played out of their hearts in that tournament!
 

GMR

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Not counting anything involving my favorite team, I'd say Nathan Lafayette scoring instead of hitting the post in game 7.
 

Maplebeasts

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Yak service flight 9633 arrives safely. Of plays that actually happened, Gretzky getting called for his high stick on Dougie in game 6 of the 93 conference finals.
 
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WildGopher

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That Wren Blair, Bill Mastertons Coach & GM in 1968 who only admitted/confessed publicly at the age of 85 & years later that he believed Bill had been suffering from a pre-existing concussion & who had been exhibiting all the symptoms thereof... that Blair had instead of just taking Mastertons' word that that he was "good to go" had instead ordered him to "sit", sent him to the hospital where he could have received the medical diagnosis & treatment which he required. It was clear to Blair & to several of Bill's teammates prior to his last game that there was something very seriously wrong with the guy.

Yes to this. We use the metaphor "hockey as life," but it still is a game. My first thought when I saw the thread is I'd have had Quebec, the last virulent hockey hotbed of adequate size without an NHL team nearby, keep their Nordiques in '95 and expand to Colorado. Or at least give Quebec their new team now.

But yeah, definitely we'd all choose to change a tragedy like Masterton. Or Howie Morenz. Or the little girl in Columbus' arena. Or, as stated above, the plane carrying the Yaroslavl Lokomotiv team. Kind of puts sports and the foibles of its participants in perspective. Maybe we honor those people a little bit by remembering them in the history threads.
 

Killion

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But yeah, definitely we'd all choose to change a tragedy like Masterton. Or Howie Morenz. Or the little girl in Columbus' arena. Or, as stated above, the plane carrying the Yaroslavl Lokomotiv team. Kind of puts sports and the foibles of its participants in perspective. Maybe we honor those people a little bit by remembering them in the history threads.

You bet. And yes, "it's only a game" so when lives are lost or someone suffering a life altering debilitating injury, you'd sure like to be able to wave a magic wand & turn back the clock but alas..... One thing Ive always toyed with is "what if" people had caught on to Alan Eagleson early on, called him on his guff about having "Slayed the Dragon"; drove Eddie Shore out of the game (which he did not) and which gave him the false bravado & street-cred he needed to build his player agency, representing Orr, rise to ascendancy as head of the NHLPA. Think of all the pain & suffering, theft, fraud & larceny that could have been avoided. All the lives & careers affected negatively by his actions fulfilling their promise. If he'd never come along International Hockey wouldnt have suffered, Hockey Canada had been in discussions with the Russians & the NHL for some time before Eagleson got involved so eventually, maybe not in 72 but eventually the pro's would have met the Mighty Red Machine.
 
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Howie Hodge

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You bet. And yes, "it's only a game" so when lives are lost or someone suffering a life altering debilitating injury, you'd sure like to be able to wave a magic wand & turn back the clock but alas..... One thing Ive always toyed with is "what if" people had caught on to Alan Eagleson early on, called him on his guff about having "Slayed the Dragon"; drove Eddie Shore out of the game (which he did not) and which gave him the false bravado & street-cred he needed to build his player agency, representing Orr, rise to ascendancy as head of the NHLPA. Think of all the pain & suffering, theft, fraud & larceny that could have been avoided. All the lives & careers affected negatively by his actions fulfilling their promise. If he'd never come along International Hockey wouldnt have suffered, Hockey Canada had been in discussions with the Russians & the NHL for some time before Eagleson got involved so eventually, maybe not in 72 but eventually the pro's would have met the Mighty Red Machine.

Here - here. I know one of the guys Eagleson duped, and it has effected him until this day.
 
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Killion

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Here - here. I know one of the guys Eagleson duped, and it has effected him until this day.

Oh ya. Careers derailed, beyond valid disability claims denied, never went at the league over the penurious & criminal pension plan. He ruined peoples lives the affects of which are still being felt, living with every single day as we speak by more than a few, make no mistake.... Then there are guys like Ballard, the Gunds & Norm Green; Marcel Aubut & Barry Shenkarow etc that make you wish the birth control pill could somehow be made retroactive. Ha?
 

CharlestownChiefsESC

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For the RANGERS I have an obvious.

If Francis's shot doesn't go in on Richter in 92, they wind up beating the Pens in 5 and ultimately win the Stanley Cup 2 years earlier. Which makes me wonder does 94 happen? Do they trade these kids (Amonte,Weight)now that they've won? Is Neilson fired the following year or does he even make it to 93, he could have decided to retire after having a cup?
 
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Rick Kehoe

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Oct 8, 2017
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Inspired by a what-if thread on this site's NBA sub-forum (http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/is-there-a-bigger-what-if-moment-in-nba-history.2383027/)................

Like let's say you could go and change the outcome of one moment, one play in the NHL that would have a big impact going forward, which one would it be and why so?

One play I honestly think would have had an interesting butterfly effect: Kirk McLean's save in the 1994 playoffs.

If that happens, we're rewriting things for a lot of teams:

Vancouver- How would history judge Pavel Bure/Trevor Linden/McLean if they don't have that memorable playoff run that did follow? And how is Canucks history redone without that Cup run? Maybe they overhaul the team if they have another early exit on the heels of 1992-1993?

Calgary- They would have had home-ice the rest of the West Playoffs (Remember, the same night as that game 7 was San Jose's shocking upset of Detroit) and considering the rest of the West (Dallas, San Jose, Toronto) and getting the first round playoff monkey off their backs. Plus, also, if they do make a deep run, does that probably mean they never do the MacInnis/Vernon trades from the summer of '94? (And if so, that might also change things for Detroit/St. Louis)

San Jose- They would have drawn Calgary in round 2. Might they have caught the Flames on an emotional hangover and maybe gone even further if the Flames had a bit of a letdown?

Dallas/Toronto- Considering how Vancouver quickly ran through these teams, might they have stood a better chance with no Bure/McLean standing in the way? In fact, if Reichel scores, they actually play each other in round 2!

NY Rangers- If they don't play Vancouver, are we sure the 1994 Cup Finals would have been as memorable as it became? Think of all the memorable moments we lose (McLean's game 1 masterpiece, Richter's save on Bure, the wild game 5 third period, that epic game 7) Would a possible Cup triumph in a shorter series or less dramatic battle have made it more or less iconic a moment?

Mike Keenan- If the Rangers don't win the Cup, does he maybe never try and weasel his way out with a Cup and try again

NY Rangers- Of course, maybe the curse still goes on if they don't win the Cup and they could be working on a 77 year drought.


Pittsburgh- If the puck doesn't take a weird bounce over Randy Carlyle's stick in the 1982 playoffs, the Penguins pull off possibly the greatest upset in NHL postseason history. Pittsburgh had finished 40 points behind the Islanders that season, and seemingly didn't have a prayer facing that great team in the opening round. After spotting the Isles a 2-0 series lead, the Pens came back to not only tie the series, but led NY 3-1 entering the third period of Game 5 at the Nassau Coliseum. The fluke bounce was picked up by John Tonelli, who tied the game at 3, and the Isles went on to barely survive and advance. The Pittsburgh series would turn out to be the toughest test for the eventual SC Champs that season.
 

Killion

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Hamilton Tigers players don't strike.

... bit of an interesting back story there as well in that the Quebec franchise was sold & moved to Hamilton in order to block the market from Eddie Livingstone who was attempting to setup a rival league to the NHL. They did the same in Pittsburgh.... 50+ years later in New York awarding a franchise to Long Island in order to block WHA incursion into the market, then awarding a franchise to Atlanta for the same reason. At about that time as well, mid 70's, they'd conditionally awarded a franchise to Seattle & as such, the ownership group refrained from buying a WHA Franchise however they were betrayed by the League & NBA ownership interests resulting in no top tier hockey at all, a lawsuit against the NHL that took over 10yrs to resolve....

The Hamilton Tigers as you know sold to Bootlegger Billy Dwyer, contemporary of Al Capone. Dwyer had been told he had exclusive rights to the NY Metro Market however, Tex Rickard who ran MSG (former Riverboat Gambler, Lawman, contemporary & friend to the Hole in the Wall Gang, Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid etc) saw the dollars the Americans were raking in & in breech of that agreement he secured an NHL Franchise himself, and that would be your Rangers... resulting in the eventual contraction of the Quebec / Hamilton / Amerks franchise.... Red Dutton who had played for, Managed & Coached the club before it was "temporarily shelved" for WW2 with Dutton taking over as NHL President upon Frank Calders unexpected death told he could reconstitute the Americans post war, just needed a new building, so he linedup the financing in Brooklyn however again... NHL betrayal, Dutton cursing out the Board of Governors, promising them New York would never win another Cup so long as he breathed... which came true... Red dying in Calgary in 1987.
 
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mrhockey193195

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This is probably the naive boy in me that still believes things would have been different, but I've always wondered what if Messier doesn't leave for Vancouver. The Rangers had other problems, but maybe Leetch doesn't fall off a cliff and maybe Richter continues at a borderline-HOFer pace. A couple more years of Mess and Gretz together would have been amazing, regardless.
 

whcanuck

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Nathan LaFayette hitting the pipe in Game 7 in 1994. I really think Vancouver would have won had he scored. They were all over New York in the 3rd period and I think the Rangers would have been really nervous at home in a next-goal-wins-the-Cup scenario. But alas, it hit the iron and New York won and ended their drought.
 

CharlestownChiefsESC

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This is probably the naive boy in me that still believes things would have been different, but I've always wondered what if Messier doesn't leave for Vancouver. The Rangers had other problems, but maybe Leetch doesn't fall off a cliff and maybe Richter continues at a borderline-HOFer pace. A couple more years of Mess and Gretz together would have been amazing, regardless.
I almost agree with managements decision. Messier was a shell of him self after February of 97 and he never really showed his elite player status again. I remember he had his moments during the series vs the Panthers but was pretty much a ghost after that. My biggest problem with Neil Smith after that cup is he tried too hard to appease Messier for winning the cup and tried to by Messier's rules, instead of being a good GM and trying to win his way.

My other problem with that era are the deals he didn't make. In the summer of 95 they had a deal in place for Brendan Shanahan, that would have sent Kovalev and Matteau the other way. The organization especially Messier was high on Kovalev even though he didn't do all that much after 94. Now while I agree Kovalev was a good player he was nowhere near as good as Shanahan. If they make this deal they have a shot to win again in 97, provided they keep Verbeek and get another offensive dman. But lets say for arguments sake they don't win in 97 for whatever reason. My other qualm is I wish they would have upped the ante on Sakic maybe added 5 mill more to the signing bonus. Granted if Messier leaves in 97 it hurts but I think most people would have been more than ok with a team led by Sakic and Shanahan with Gretzky as support. Now while I think they don't win in 98 despite coming close, I think Smith should have let Richter walk and signed Curtis Joseph. The results in the following years showed why. Also in 98-99 Bure wanted out of Vancouver and although the RANGERS were in the rumbling they weren't exactly a great team. But had they had a lineup of Sakic,Shanahan,Gretzky,Cujo,Leetch,Schnieder, and Graves(who was still scoring at a 30 goal pace), I can imagine Bure demanding to come to NY. So if you look at a team with all those players that's a cup winner in my book in 99 and they most likely win again in either 01 or 02 maybe both. (Who knows maybe Bourque wins his cup in NY).

Hey as much as I love Mess if these thing happen maybe he isn't held in such high regard and maybe 94 is looked at as a building block to bigger things instead of an epic victory that's still over celebrated imo. Maybe those powerhouses in Detroit and Colorado are 1 and done's. Maybe with the leagues top team being in NY the popularity of the sport is at an all time high and the lockout doesn't happen in 04.(IMO it most likely does but it doesn't cancel the season). All because of a GM endearing himself to his captain before it was too late and their love of a flash in the pan player. Ughh I wish Neil Smith was like Theo Epstein. The guy broke a curse in Boston but then built the team for long term success in the next few years and got another title, all while dumping some popular players(Pedro Martinez) and I'll bet he'll win 1 or 2 more in Chicago before it's all said and done. Ughh what could have been.
 

The Panther

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I almost agree with managements decision. Messier was a shell of him self after February of 97 and he never really showed his elite player status again. I remember he had his moments during the series vs the Panthers but was pretty much a ghost after that. My biggest problem with Neil Smith after that cup is he tried too hard to appease Messier for winning the cup and tried to by Messier's rules, instead of being a good GM and trying to win his way.

My other problem with that era are the deals he didn't make. In the summer of 95 they had a deal in place for Brendan Shanahan, that would have sent Kovalev and Matteau the other way. The organization especially Messier was high on Kovalev even though he didn't do all that much after 94. Now while I agree Kovalev was a good player he was nowhere near as good as Shanahan. If they make this deal they have a shot to win again in 97, provided they keep Verbeek and get another offensive dman. But lets say for arguments sake they don't win in 97 for whatever reason. My other qualm is I wish they would have upped the ante on Sakic maybe added 5 mill more to the signing bonus. Granted if Messier leaves in 97 it hurts but I think most people would have been more than ok with a team led by Sakic and Shanahan with Gretzky as support. Now while I think they don't win in 98 despite coming close, I think Smith should have let Richter walk and signed Curtis Joseph. The results in the following years showed why. Also in 98-99 Bure wanted out of Vancouver and although the RANGERS were in the rumbling they weren't exactly a great team. But had they had a lineup of Sakic,Shanahan,Gretzky,Cujo,Leetch,Schnieder, and Graves(who was still scoring at a 30 goal pace), I can imagine Bure demanding to come to NY. So if you look at a team with all those players that's a cup winner in my book in 99 and they most likely win again in either 01 or 02 maybe both. (Who knows maybe Bourque wins his cup in NY).

Hey as much as I love Mess if these thing happen maybe he isn't held in such high regard and maybe 94 is looked at as a building block to bigger things instead of an epic victory that's still over celebrated imo. Maybe those powerhouses in Detroit and Colorado are 1 and done's. Maybe with the leagues top team being in NY the popularity of the sport is at an all time high and the lockout doesn't happen in 04.(IMO it most likely does but it doesn't cancel the season). All because of a GM endearing himself to his captain before it was too late and their love of a flash in the pan player. Ughh I wish Neil Smith was like Theo Epstein. The guy broke a curse in Boston but then built the team for long term success in the next few years and got another title, all while dumping some popular players(Pedro Martinez) and I'll bet he'll win 1 or 2 more in Chicago before it's all said and done. Ughh what could have been.
You're likely under-selling Kovalev a bit -- I'd say he was a much more skilled player than Shanahan -- but I get what you're saying.

It is striking how the Rangers mis-managed assets during 1993-94 and after. Here is what they had at the start of that season:
- Messier (age 32)
- Leetch (age 25)
- Zubov (age 23)
- Graves (age 25)
- Richter (age 27)
- Larmer (age 32)
- Kovalev (age 20)
- Tikkanen (age 28)
- Gartner (age 34)
- Nemchinov (age 29)
- Amonte (age 23)
- Olcyzk (age 27)
- Marchant (age 20)

It's stunning how they lost Messier for nothing, Zubov (and Nedved) for short-termers Robitaille and Samuelsson, Larmer to retirement, Tikkanen and Lidster for Nedved, Gartner for Anderson (who was washed-up on arrival), Nemchinov essentially for Tikkanen (again) -- a player they'd already had, Amonte for Matteau and Noonan, Olcyzk for a 5th-round choice (Vasiliev), and Marchant for MacTavish (who was basically done). Not only that, but in spring '93 they'd swapped Doug Weight (future 100 point scorer, played to 2011) for Tikkanen.

Now, of course you can argue that the pre-spring '94 moves were justified in that they won the Cup. Maybe. I know Matteau scored a big overtime goal, but would they really not go back and cancel getting him to lose young Tony Amonte?? Gartner still had a few more 30+ goal seasons in him, and Anderson was already done. How much did they give up to get Tikkanen (twice)? Did MacTavish really do anything that justified giving up Todd Marchant at the start of his career? I know Messier was 36 by 1997, but he was only a year removed from being a Hart finalist, still scoring at a 100-point pace, and they just let his contract expire and got nothing.

Just poor resource management.
 

CharlestownChiefsESC

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Understandable. I put up a post earlier about Francis's shot going in on Richter in the 92 playoffs. If that doesn't happen they win 2 years earlier and maybe those guys stick around. Although I think in 92 the strike killed their momentum more than anything.
 

CharlestownChiefsESC

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You're likely under-selling Kovalev a bit -- I'd say he was a much more skilled player than Shanahan -- but I get what you're saying.

It is striking how the Rangers mis-managed assets during 1993-94 and after. Here is what they had at the start of that season:
- Messier (age 32)
- Leetch (age 25)
- Zubov (age 23)
- Graves (age 25)
- Richter (age 27)
- Larmer (age 32)
- Kovalev (age 20)
- Tikkanen (age 28)
- Gartner (age 34)
- Nemchinov (age 29)
- Amonte (age 23)
- Olcyzk (age 27)
- Marchant (age 20)

It's stunning how they lost Messier for nothing, Zubov (and Nedved) for short-termers Robitaille and Samuelsson, Larmer to retirement, Tikkanen and Lidster for Nedved, Gartner for Anderson (who was washed-up on arrival), Nemchinov essentially for Tikkanen (again) -- a player they'd already had, Amonte for Matteau and Noonan, Olcyzk for a 5th-round choice (Vasiliev), and Marchant for MacTavish (who was basically done). Not only that, but in spring '93 they'd swapped Doug Weight (future 100 point scorer, played to 2011) for Tikkanen.

Now, of course you can argue that the pre-spring '94 moves were justified in that they won the Cup. Maybe. I know Matteau scored a big overtime goal, but would they really not go back and cancel getting him to lose young Tony Amonte?? Gartner still had a few more 30+ goal seasons in him, and Anderson was already done. How much did they give up to get Tikkanen (twice)? Did MacTavish really do anything that justified giving up Todd Marchant at the start of his career? I know Messier was 36 by 1997, but he was only a year removed from being a Hart finalist, still scoring at a 100-point pace, and they just let his contract expire and got nothing.

Just poor resource management.

Understandable. I put up a post earlier about Francis's shot going in on Richter in the 92 playoffs. If that doesn't happen they win 2 years earlier and maybe those guys stick around. Although I think in 92 the strike killed their momentum more than anything.
 

ChuckLefley

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1996 playoffs, the Blues have a team that has good offense, good defense and good goaltending. Then Kypreos defies physics and injuries Fuhr. Casey does well in relief bu pt gives up that goal to Yzerman, which would have been glove side on Fuhr.

 

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