If they retired today, are they HHoFers? (Anonymous voting)

[ClydeLee]

He may very well get in, but:

- Conn Smythe and Selke are not huge needle-movers when it comes to the HHOF. Lehtinen and Datsyuk have three Selkes and are still waiting for their call. A whole bunch of non-HHOFers have Smythes, especially in this era.

- He has been to six all star games which is irrelevant. What matters is postseason All Star awards, of which Toews has only one — a second team award, at that.

^^ for the above to be his entire individual trophy case, is incredibly weak for a HHOF’er. Again, if a Slovakian Nashville Predators player had a 2nd All Star award and a Selke and a Smythe, we wouldn’t even be talking about that guy as a serious candidate.

Toews’ entire case for the HHOF comes from the additional luster he gets from Cups and medals — awards that were won on the most over-loaded rosters of his generation. His big value-add, leadership and character, is stained by his complicity in one of the biggest scandals in league history.

Will he still get in, probably, because this is the same committee that put in guys like Guy Carbonneau and Dick Duff. Toews is connected enough in the hockey establishment that they’ll give it to him regardless of whether he’s fully earned it.

Quite the extreme comparisons and takes. For oddly taking down a actually stoll offensive great player, as if he's only a defensive force.

Lehtenin's best offensive season only ties, probably Era adjust better than just 1 of Toews's before last 2, covid/immune issue impacted years. He should of produced more on pps, but yeah he's not some defensive only player barely hitting 50pts.

You do know what Datsyuk isn't in the HOF? He hasn't been eligible yet. He only stopped playing after the 20-21 season.

 

[Matty Sundin]

Poll is confusing so doing this..Basing this off how they been selecting them lately. Certain teams seem to get favoured. Being apart of modern dynasty helps(Back to back cups or 3 in 5 years)

Guys like Forsberg and Kariya had short or scattered missed time careers and still got in. International play is being considered as well, not just NHL. Usually if you win a Norris or Hart you get in unless it was an abnormal year for the player.

Ducks: None. Too many young players.

Coyotes: None. Too many young players.

Bruins: Marchand Should get in if he gets 500 goals and 1000 pts. Give Pasta a few more years.

Sabres: Too many young players

Flames: None. Would of said maybe Huberdeau trending towards a discussion 2 years ago but his career has taken a nose dive

Hurricanes: Brent Burns is maybe not first ballot but is getting in. A lot of young players with a lot to prove still. Their coach will be in there eventually.

Blackhawks: None. Despite a hart trophy, I don’t think Taylor Hall gets in. Seth Jones needs a massive resurgence and Norris to be discussed. Seems unlikely.

Avalanche: Mackinnon probably gets in if retired now. Same with Makar which is nuts with his age. Rantanan is trending but wouldn’t if retired today. Give a few more years of same production.

Jackets: None. Johnny Hockey needs a career resurgence and a lot more years to even be discussed. Same thing with Laine but he’s still young.

Stars: Pavelski probably not now, though if he keeps up his play one more season or two then he has a chance. No to Seguin. Benn needs to hang around a bit more and be just productive to be discussed. Suter gets in.

Oilers: Mcdavid and Drais are getting in if retired today. Perry is a polarizing pick but I do think he is a HOFer. If Oilers won more than 1 cup down the road then guys like Nuge would be in discussion but more work on their part needs to be done to deal it.

Panthers: Bob should get in if retired today. Barkov eventually a lock but would struggle if retired today and Tkachuk maybe trending but still young and needs to do a lot more.

Kings: Kopitar and Doughty are already locks.

Wild: Fleury is already a lock. A LOT of time needed for kaprizov

Habs: None unless you count Carey Price.

Preds: Yes to Josi if retired today. ROR maybe trending but needs to stick around more to be in discussion and not fall off a cliff.

Devils: None due to young players. Hamilton needs a Norris to be have a discussion.

Islanders: None. Few young players that have a ways to go.

Rangers:Quick is a lock. Give Panarin a few years. Shesterkin is trending.

Senators: I think Giroux needs more time but might eventually get in but not a first ballot.

Flyers: None

Penguins: Crosby, Malkin, Karlsson are about as locked as you can get. Letang probably gets in to.

Sharks: None

Kraken: None

Blues: None

Lighting: Stamkos, Hedman, Vasi, Kucherov are locks if retired today. Point needs more time but is trending.

Leafs: Yes Auston makes it if retired today…John Tavares yes…Marner and Nylander maybe trending but need A LOT more time and wouldn’t if retired today. Rielly needs a Norris to be discussed.

Canucks: Hughes even if he wins a Norris this year needs more time though heavily trending if he does. Pettersson too young but trending.

Knights: I think Petro is a lock. Eichel is trending but more time needed. Same thing with Stone. Aiden Hill is young and if he wins another cup and adds a Veznia then you gotta discuss him.

Capitals: Ovechkin is locked unless the hall bans Russians for whatever reason…Backstrom is a yes.

Jets: Helly is probably winning another Veznia this year so a yes for me if he retired today though would take time if he just retired.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Quite the extreme comparisons and takes. For oddly taking down a actually stoll offensive great player, as if he's only a defensive force.

Lehtenin's best offensive season only ties, probably Era adjust better than just 1 of Toews's before last 2, covid/immune issue impacted years. He should of produced more on pps, but yeah he's not some defensive only player barely hitting 50pts.

You do know what Datsyuk isn't in the HOF? He hasn't been eligible yet. He only stopped playing after the 20-21 season.

I’m not suggesting Lehtinen should be a HHOFer. Actually, the fact that he doesn’t make the cut is the point. He has three Selkes, and that’s not good enough. What does Toews’ one Selke really matter in an HHOF conversation?

The same thing can be said to a lesser extent of the Smythe. It covers the player in glory because it’s an award given in the context of a Cup win (usually) but it’s still an award for about 8 weeks of good play against four opponents. A bunch of non-HHOFers have one, and it has nothing near the prestige of the major regular season awards.

At the end of the day, Toews peaked as maybe the ~5th best center in the league for like 2-3 seasons. The rest of his prime he was borderline top-10, and by age 30 he wasn’t even top-10. Putting a player with that kind of pedigree into the HHOF because of championships that he won with super-stacked teams is how you get another Glenn Anderson or Clark Gillies in there.

 

[Craig Button]

all but these guys

• Erik Karlsson
• Shea Weber
• Drew Doughty
• Duncan Keith

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

I’m not suggesting Lehtinen should be a HHOFer. Actually, the fact that he doesn’t make the cut is the point. He has three Selkes, and that’s not good enough. What does Toews’ one Selke really matter in an HHOF conversation?

The same thing can be said to a lesser extent of the Smythe. It covers the player in glory because it’s an award given in the context of a Cup win (usually) but it’s still an award for about 8 weeks of good play against four opponents. A bunch of non-HHOFers have one, and it has nothing near the prestige of the major regular season awards.

At the end of the day, Toews peaked as maybe the ~5th best center in the league for like 2-3 seasons. The rest of his prime he was borderline top-10, and by age 30 he wasn’t even top-10. Putting a player with that kind of pedigree into the HHOF because of championships that he won with super-stacked teams is how you get another Glenn Anderson or Clark Gillies in there.

Not that Im a fan of "if player x is in..." arguments but it really doesn't sit well with me that Carbonneau got put in and Lehtinen isn't. What does Carbonneau really have over Lehtinen besides wearing the CH and being a good ol Canadian boy?

for the record, neither should be in IMO

 

[tarheelhockey]

Not that Im a fan of "if player x is in..." arguments but it really doesn't sit well with me that Carbonneau got put in and Lehtinen isn't. What does Carbonneau really have over Lehtinen besides wearing the CH and being a good ol Canadian boy?

for the record, neither should be in IMO

Agreed, Carbonneau is in because of who he golfs with. Terrible induction.

 

[Maplebeasts]

all but these guys

• Erik Karlsson
• Shea Weber
• Drew Doughty
• Duncan Keith

Erik Karlsson has 3 Norrises and really should have had 4. Duncan Keith has 2 Norrises and a Conn Smythe. Drew Doughty has a Norris, an incredible international career and was the #1 D on a multi cup winning team. All 3 are slam dunks.

 

[wetcoast]

Every single one will get in (or is already in).

I think so too but Elias has been waiting a while and the same thing might happen to Weber and Zetterberg.

 

[Sweetpotato]

Elias and Weber are debatable.

Kopitar and Zetterberg are just in.

Everyone else is an absolute lock.

 

[Regal]

I’m not suggesting Lehtinen should be a HHOFer. Actually, the fact that he doesn’t make the cut is the point. He has three Selkes, and that’s not good enough. What does Toews’ one Selke really matter in an HHOF conversation?

The same thing can be said to a lesser extent of the Smythe. It covers the player in glory because it’s an award given in the context of a Cup win (usually) but it’s still an award for about 8 weeks of good play against four opponents. A bunch of non-HHOFers have one, and it has nothing near the prestige of the major regular season awards.

At the end of the day, Toews peaked as maybe the ~5th best center in the league for like 2-3 seasons. The rest of his prime he was borderline top-10, and by age 30 he wasn’t even top-10. Putting a player with that kind of pedigree into the HHOF because of championships that he won with super-stacked teams is how you get another Glenn Anderson or Clark Gillies in there.

Being a top 10 center for a decade while peaking as a top 5 and having an elite playoff record is a pretty standard HOF career. Kopitar would have make it still even if he declined hard after 30. Anderson and Gillies were never at that level of player. And Dick Duff is a laughable comparison. Chicago was a quasi-dynasty in large part because the Toews/Keith/Kane trio was great. This isn’t a player along for the ride. Duff and Carbonneau comparisons would be like inducting Sharp or Seabrook.

 

[Forge]

Elias is maybe the most debatable one here. He's that sort of player that likely isn't the best player shut out if he doesn't get in but also isn't the worst player in if elected.

The lack of individual awards really hurts because his actual production is in line with someone like Daniel Sedin who's already in

Even as the most questionable candidate here, Paul pidutti has him as an exceeds HOF standards guy

 

[tarheelhockey]

Being a top 10 center for a decade while peaking as a top 5 and having an elite playoff record is a pretty standard HOF career.

It’s standard provided the player has a long consistent career. For a short career guy, peaking on the edge of the top 5 is pretty weak. He leans heavily on the whole “playoff warrior” image as the core of his case.

Kopitar would have make it still even if he declined hard after 30. Anderson and Gillies were never at that level of player. And Dick Duff is a laughable comparison. Chicago was a quasi-dynasty in large part because the Toews/Keith/Kane trio was great. This isn’t a player along for the ride. Duff and Carbonneau comparisons would be like inducting Sharp or Seabrook.

True that he wouldn’t be an atrocious pick like Carbonneau or Duff, but he’s really not that far off being a Gillies. Remember Gillies peaked pretty high and had a similar playoff reputation on an even more elevated dynasty.