IF the NHL refuses to negotiate

[A Good Flying Bird*]

If the NHL refuses further negotiation, as Herr Bettman has stated, are they making a mistake?
I'm particularly interested in the comments and opionions of those who have supported Bettman and the league throughout.
They've got a cap. They've got a big rollback, plus other big concessions.
Shouldn't they be negotiating at this point?

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[Levitate]

yes i think the "we're through negotiating" stance is absurd and an insult to the fans

it's never too late to negotiate and this is the time to do it.

 

[BAuldie]

I'd say if they should because I think impasse is out of the question now that they are so close.

 

[Lou is God]

Since Sportsnet has said that the NHL will come off their 42.5 mill offer, it look like are willing to renegotiate.

 

[IslesRule]

It is certainly a ploy. The NHL probably thought the NHLPA would counter their last offer with something that would be totally unacceptable, and they did. The Owners reiterate that that was their final offer, so they don't negotiate against themselves. The onus goes to the players to put forth a reasonable offer. Simply making an offer will not insure an impasse will not be declared. The League will argue, and in my opinion argue successfully, that the NHLPA did not bargain in good faith and made offers that they knew would not even be the basis for a settlement.

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

It is certainly a ploy. The NHL probably thought the NHLPA would counter their last offer with something that would be totally unacceptable, and they did. The Owners reiterate that that was their final offer, so they don't negotiate against themselves. The onus goes to the players to put forth a reasonable offer. Simply making an offer will not insure an impasse will not be declared. The League will argue, and in my opinion argue successfully, that the NHLPA did not bargain in good faith and made offers that they knew would not even be the basis for a settlement.

Unacceptable? Are you kidding? The NHL moved $2.5 Million in their proposal. The players moved $3M in their proposal.
Another round of negotiating, and we've got a deal, pretty much.
If the NHL moves to $44Million, the players come down to $47 or $46 Million.
And then we need one more proposal.
WHich would be a helluvalot easier if Bettman wasn't acting like a dictator.

 

[Calorissi]

I have been pro NHL during this whole debacle. I still believe the only way that the owners should go up from their $42.5 Million cap is for the players to give something back in arbitration (something that is no longer reported in any of the current offers).

If the season is cancelled today by the NHL, I will remain pro NHL through the next wave of negotiations and into the next season (be that the impasse or replacement players...). If the NHL back down to the last proposed deal from the NHLPA, they will lose my $'s that much is certain.

 

[SENSible1*]

Unacceptable? Are you kidding? The NHL moved $2.5 Million in their proposal. The players moved $3M in their proposal.
Another round of negotiating, and we've got a deal, pretty much.
If the NHL moves to $44Million, the players come down to $47 or $46 Million.
And then we need one more proposal.
WHich would be a helluvalot easier if Bettman wasn't acting like a dictator.

Why do you think Bettman feels like he can afford to act like a dictator?

Once you anwer that question, you'll realize how well he is doing his job.

 

[ceber]

Unacceptable? Are you kidding? The NHL moved $2.5 Million in their proposal. The players moved $3M in their proposal.
Another round of negotiating, and we've got a deal, pretty much.
If the NHL moves to $44Million, the players come down to $47 or $46 Million.
And then we need one more proposal.
WHich would be a helluvalot easier if Bettman wasn't acting like a dictator.

IMO the biggest problem with the PA's offer is not the cap level.. it's that it's soft, and the luxury tax is fairly weak, with some nifty clauses to avoid paying it. I think the league will move up to 45 provided there's a tax with some teeth and no loopholes for avoiding it.

 

[IslesRule]

Unacceptable? Are you kidding? The NHL moved $2.5 Million in their proposal. The players moved $3M in their proposal.
Another round of negotiating, and we've got a deal, pretty much.
If the NHL moves to $44Million, the players come down to $47 or $46 Million.
And then we need one more proposal.
WHich would be a helluvalot easier if Bettman wasn't acting like a dictator.

In negotiating, simply making an offer does not mean you are bargaining in good faith. The NHLPA's offer of $52 million with a 10% exception and then "reducing" it to $49 million may not be viewed as such.

The bottom line is the owners will not go above $45 million (my opinion), no exceptions. The players say the will not move for $49 million (plus 10% exception, for a cap of $53.9 million). Really sounds like am impasse to me. I hope the players know what they are getting into.

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

In negotiating, simply making an offer does not mean you are bargaining in good faith. The NHLPA's offer of $52 million with a 10% exception and then "reducing" it to $49 million may not be viewed as such.

The bottom line is the owners will not go above $45 million (my opinion), no exceptions. The players say the will not move for $49 million (plus 10% exception, for a cap of $53.9 million). Really sounds like am impasse to me. I hope the players know what they are getting into.

Impasse? Are you kidding?
I don't care if the NLRB is run by Bush's neo-nazis, there is no way they will win an NLRB ruling. The players have moved too much. Had they stuck to their no cap line, we might have seen it.
But they caved.
Also, for what's it's worth, the PA removed one more exception to the cap in the last offer.

 

[ATLANTARANGER*]

How well he's doing his job?

Why do you think Bettman feels like he can afford to act like a dictator?

Once you anwer that question, you'll realize how well he is doing his job.

if he keeps doing his job this well, in another 10 years there will definately be no NHL! As it is he's killed the game. He is by far, the worst thing that has happened to hockey. He over expanded into markets that think hockey is something you do when you cut school!

 

[Buffaloed]

Making a last and final non-negotiable offer is part of the impasse procedure. The NHL, and the NHLPA for that matter, have made significant concessions since this process began in September. The notion that the NHL hasn't negotiated is biased based on anti-Bettman sentiments, rather than the factual record. The same is true of the NHLPA. They have also negotiated. If they have indeed reached an issue where neither side is willing to concede on, the NHL is now in position to declare an impasse having met all the requirements of good faith collective bargaining. Frankly, what's left of this season isn't worth salvaging if the cap must be more than $42.5 million. I'd rather see the NHL start next season under an imposed CBA and replacement players than go through 6 years of reading about the financial problems of teams rather than the product on the ice.

 

[SENSible1*]

Making a last and final non-negotiable offer is part of the impasse procedure. The NHL, and the NHLPA for that matter, have made significant concessions since this process began in September. The notion that the NHL hasn't negotiated is biased based on anti-Bettman sentiments, rather than the factual record. The same is true of the NHLPA. They have also negotiated. If they have indeed reached an issue where neither side is willing to concede on, the NHL is now in position to declare an impasse having met all the requirements of good faith collective bargaining. Frankly, what's left of this season isn't worth salvaging if the cap must be more than $42.5 million. I'd rather see the NHL start next season under an imposed CBA and replacement players than go through 6 years of reading about the financial problems of teams rather than the product on the ice.

Well said.

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

Making a last and final non-negotiable offer is part of the impasse procedure. The NHL, and the NHLPA for that matter, have made significant concessions since this process began in September. The notion that the NHL hasn't negotiated is biased based on anti-Bettman sentiments, rather than the factual record. The same is true of the NHLPA. They have also negotiated. If they have indeed reached an issue where neither side is willing to concede on, the NHL is now in position to declare an impasse having met all the requirements of good faith collective bargaining. Frankly, what's left of this season isn't worth salvaging if the cap must be more than $42.5 million. I'd rather see the NHL start next season under an imposed CBA and replacement players than go through 6 years of reading about the financial problems of teams rather than the product on the ice.

But there will be no declared impasse and Bettman will be foolish to try.
How can you declare an impasse when you've only been negotiating the size of the cap for 12 hours?
The impasse was philosphical impasse that finally broke last night.

 

[SuperNintendoChalmrs]

Disembowel the union......go below the 31 million cap that Daly talked about months ago.

 

[Accord]

They got the cap and a roll back. Offer $45 Million and get it done

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

They got the cap and a roll back. Offer $45 Million and get it done

What happened to reports that the league was willing to move from $42.5M?
I guess that's true. But no one reported they would only move backwards.