If the cap goes up to $80-82 million next year, should we go after Tavares if he hits UFA?

[Man Bear Pig]

HEH only a libtard would hand out raises because the cap increase and not due to what that player has earned or accomplished.

If they have earned the increase then they will get it, if not ummm nope they won't and right now, none of the 3 worth worrying about have earned that.

It's called inflation. You were worth $7 mil per season 5 years ago, now you're worth $9. That's just how this works. The cap going up doesnt actually give you more room to sign anybody, it jusy inflates salary. You'll end up with a similar roster except everyone is making more money.

 

[Faltorvo]

Your spewing a lot of words that actually do not line up with what has been going on in the NHL. You can point to McDavids contract and i can point to Stamkos

i can point out landeskog at 5.5m cap hit signed in 2013 and Pastrnak for 6.6m in 2017 and can anyone argue that landeskog is the better player of the 2?

So 4 years later and being the better proven player only got Pastrnak 1.1m more.

I'll argue 85% of that 1.1m is being the better player and 15% of that is your imagined inflation.

 

[Faltorvo]

It's called inflation. You were worth $7 mil per season 5 years ago, now you're worth $9. That's just how this works. The cap going up doesnt actually give you more room to sign anybody, it jusy inflates salary. You'll end up with a similar roster except everyone is making more money.

Landeskog got 5.5m 4 years ago, pastrnak (the better player) only got 1.1m more

macKinnon 6.3m in 2016 pastrnak with a better resume only 0.3m more in 2017.

 

[Drytoast]

Your spewing a lot of words that actually do not line up with what has been going on in the NHL. You can point to McDavids contract and i can point to Stamkos

i can point out landeskog at 5.5m cap hit signed in 2013 and Pastrnak for 6.6m in 2017 and can anyone argue that landeskog is the better player of the 2?

So 4 years later and being the better proven player only got Pastrnak 1.1m more.

Stamkos? Your example is Stamkos?

Stamkos signed what is the equivalent of a 10+ mil contract because of the tax situation in Flordia.

Let's not use Stamkos as an example of charity.

How's McDavid's contract work? Or Eichel? How about Doughty and Karlsson stating they want more than Subban?

Draistal worth 10?

Lol..."Stamkos"

 

[Faltorvo]

It's exactly how this works.

Did Eichel earn his 10 mil a year?

Did McDavid deserve more than Crosby for winning 1 ****ing scoring title?

You go out and you get what your worth. You don't let that worth be dictated to you. You get it.

And the owners will pay it.

Bravo, Bravo, you cite the 2 most outrageous contracts in the entire league might as well throw in Draistle as examples of how it's not done.

Ya know, kind like how the league laughed and did not follow OUR terrible examples when we inked Dion and Kessel.

Moronic contracts tend to not set league trends.

 

[Faltorvo]

Stamkos? Your example is Stamkos?

Stamkos signed what is the equivalent of a 10+ mil contract because of the tax situation in Flordia.

Let's not use Stamkos as an example of charity.

How's McDavid's contract work? Or Eichel? How about Doughty and Karlsson stating they want more than Subban?

Draistal worth 10?

Lol..."Stamkos"

\shows how absolutely pathetic your argument is when you list 2 contracts not even inked yet and some of the worst contracts in the entire league like Subban Eichel,McDavid.

 

[Drytoast]

Bravo, Bravo, you cite the 2 most outrageous contracts in the entire league might as well throw in Draistle as examples of how it's not done.

Ya know, kind like how the league laughed and did not follow OUR terrible examples when we inked Dion and Kessel.

Moronic contracts tend to not set league trends.

Yeah I hate to bring bad news but Matthews isn't going to take less than Eichel now. You look first at comparables, and then you look at what your value is to the franchise.

Matthews knows damn well who he is and what he represents, and knowing the cap is going up his percentage stays the same but his price now goes up.

Expect it.

Love it.

Deal with it.

 

[Faltorvo]

Yeah I hate to bring bad news but Matthews isn't going to take less than Eichel now. You look first at comparables, and then you look at what your value is to the franchise.

Matthews knows damn well who he is and what he represents, and knowing the cap is going up his percentage stays the same but his price now goes up.

Expect it.

Love it.

Deal with it.

Ah well just like Dions terrible 7m per set no trend or comparible in the league and neither did Kessel 8m, neither will Eichel's terrible deal.

but you keep dreaming kiddo.

 

[Drytoast]

The rising cost of mediocrity: How Connor McDavid’s generational contract will affect NHL Free Agency

"This is interesting because it shows that in over half of the FA years since 2011, there are an above-average number of contracts being given that are worth more than the league average of the top ten FA contracts.

This essentially means that the number of players being given more than what most would consider "top ten FA money" is above what you might expect it to be, and this is particularly notable in the year a "big" potential free agent signs a massive contract or extension (see: Crosby in 2012 and very notably Steven Stamkos in 2016).

And here's the thing - it's not just the free agency market driving up wages, it's the increasing fear of players even making it to FA and other teams willing to pay insane money that's driving these extensions. One that was arguably precipitated by the (then) truly monumental contracts handed to Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane, one that has been a key part of seeing the average top ten salary in the NHL rise by nearly 20% since 2011. Here's the data, as proof:"

And now the added incentive to get that player signed being that the cap is now raised?

Yeah...we are done here, bud.

 

[Legion34]

It's exactly how this works.

Did Eichel earn his 10 mil a year?

Did McDavid deserve more than Crosby for winning 1 ****ing scoring title?

You go out and you get what your worth. You don't let that worth be dictated to you. You get it.

And the owners will pay it.

Your percentage model is too simplistic and while I’m sure agents look at it, its not as simple as

Mcdavid gets this % so I want that too. Even if now I make more than the reigning triple
Crown winner even though I am not even top 10 in points...


Ehlers signed for less than schiefle even though the cap was speculated to go way up from percentages. There are about a hundred examples. If it was percentage based. Players would sing percentage contracts

 

[Drytoast]

Your percentage model is too simplistic and while I’m sure agents look at it, its not as simple as

Mcdavid gets this % so I want that too. Even if now I make more than the reigning triple
Crown winner even though I am not even top 10 in points...


Ehlers signed for less than schiefle even though the cap was speculated to go way up from percentages. There are about a hundred examples. If it was percentage based. Players would sing percentage contracts

The argument here is to suggest that a player's agent will not use the increase of the cap to negotiate a slightly higher rate for their player.

And then to suggest that the team being negotiated won't agree and pay it...

vs

A player will need to have an increase in performance to increase his pay regardless of what the cap is...(lol)

That's what this guy is arguing.

I just destroyed his theory by posting a link that details that more FA are getting more than they are worth since 2011. And it posts stats to prove it. Detailing that teams are over paying for talent.

So the debate is over.

I won.

(I fully expect him to come back by moving the goal posts...)

 

[BayStreetBully]

Your percentage model is too simplistic and while I’m sure agents look at it, its not as simple as

Mcdavid gets this % so I want that too. Even if now I make more than the reigning triple
Crown winner even though I am not even top 10 in points...


Ehlers signed for less than schiefle even though the cap was speculated to go way up from percentages. There are about a hundred examples. If it was percentage based. Players would sing percentage contracts

Players also consider internal team caps. I don’t think Ehlers goes for cheap unless Scheifele had the nice team deal to set an example. It’s important for the Leafs to get it right with Matthews and one of Marner/Nylander so we can rely on that to make the rest of the team follow suit both now and in the future.

 

[Legion34]

Players also consider internal team caps. I don’t think Ehlers goes for cheap unless Scheifele had the nice team deal to set an example. It’s important for the Leafs to get it right with Matthews and one of Marner/Nylander so we can rely on that to make the rest of the team follow suit both now and in the future.

I agree. I don’t doubt that inflation causes increased salaries. But this whole percentage based argument is dumb.

If nylander continues to perform worse than ehlers and pasta. He won’t get more just because the cap went up. Matthews won’t get more than mcdavid without a major award. It’s just not how it works.

Benn signed for the same as Ovy. Like 8 years later because ovy sets the market. Percentages are a tool. That’s it

 

[BayStreetBully]

Percentages are a tool. That’s it

That’s the best way I could put it too. There are so many factors at play. Percentages. Team dynamics. Competitors. Outside factors pertaining to city, market, personal preferences, life circumstances, life background, among others. Percentages are a tool, but is but one tool.

All we know is there is a range of salary that could be considered fair for each player, and within that range, both sides can negotiate in good faith, and the player doesn’t have to feel ripped off. Our aim should be to sign every player within that range of fairness, but on the lower end of that range. No groundbreaking deals.

 

[hullsy47]

It's called inflation. You were worth $7 mil per season 5 years ago, now you're worth $9. That's just how this works. The cap going up doesnt actually give you more room to sign anybody, it jusy inflates salary. You'll end up with a similar roster except everyone is making more money.

or u just flat out don't over pay mediocrity ....burke did just that with players that now are 3rd liners on a good team ...now its a priveledge to play in Toronto you ll get paid that way
no 35 million deals for 2nd 3rd fourth liners

 

[Daisy Jane]

Bravo, Bravo, you cite the 2 most outrageous contracts in the entire league might as well throw in Draistle as examples of how it's not done.

Ya know, kind like how the league laughed and did not follow OUR terrible examples when we inked Dion and Kessel.

Moronic contracts tend to not set league trends.

Kessel and Phaneuf's contracts were not moronic.
they were fair market value. if you want to argue that Dion was overpaid, look to Calgary to it, we only paid 500k more.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

Again. EVERY YEAR you need to resign someone.

In our case, that's Matthews Marner and Nylander. A decision to keep JVR or pass on him...Gardiner.

All players looking to sign in and around the cap confirmed to increase will request the same percentage towards the cap as they were before.

The cap increase does nothing. It's a very short term relief fix. Long term? Nope.

Yes, and like I said half the core players are signed.

Even if Matthews/Nylander/Marner take a larger chunk (same percentage) you have additional space left from the boost because everyone else's percentage drops.

It may become an issue 4-5 years from now when Kadri/Rielly/Andersen want raises but the cap will rise again (new expansion team coming). Plus, most teams dream of getting 4-5 cracks at a proper cup run.

And what GM will say, "Oh Tavares wants to sign with us but I'd rather have JVR"?

 

[Faltorvo]

The rising cost of mediocrity: How Connor McDavid’s generational contract will affect NHL Free Agency

"This is interesting because it shows that in over half of the FA years since 2011, there are an above-average number of contracts being given that are worth more than the league average of the top ten FA contracts.

This essentially means that the number of players being given more than what most would consider "top ten FA money" is above what you might expect it to be, and this is particularly notable in the year a "big" potential free agent signs a massive contract or extension (see: Crosby in 2012 and very notably Steven Stamkos in 2016).

And here's the thing - it's not just the free agency market driving up wages, it's the increasing fear of players even making it to FA and other teams willing to pay insane money that's driving these extensions. One that was arguably precipitated by the (then) truly monumental contracts handed to Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane, one that has been a key part of seeing the average top ten salary in the NHL rise by nearly 20% since 2011. Here's the data, as proof:"

And now the added incentive to get that player signed being that the cap is now raised?

Yeah...we are done here, bud.

Yup you win

 

[Faltorvo]

Kessel and Phaneuf's contracts were not moronic.
they were fair market value. if you want to argue that Dion was overpaid, look to Calgary to it, we only paid 500k more.

who ever said his deal with Calgary was not moronic?

all we did was raise to a higher level of moronic.

and i stand firm 7m for Dion and 8m for kessel= moronic.

 

[Daisy Jane]

who ever said his deal with Calgary was not moronic?

all we did was raise to a higher level of moronic.

and i stand firm 7m for Dion and 8m for kessel= moronic.

then you are being unreasonable and there's no point in discussing anything with you. there was no way on god's green earth that Dion Phaneuf at that time wasn't going to accept anything less than the standard raise that most people tend to get on their contracts in his stratosphere. his raise isn't even the league minimum on raises on the standard player contract.

if you want to say it wasn't a good idea for the Leafs to sign those deals, that's one thing, saying those deals are moronic period is not.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

who ever said his deal with Calgary was not moronic?

all we did was raise to a higher level of moronic.

and i stand firm 7m for Dion and 8m for kessel= moronic.

The only moronic thing in this thread is how arrogantly you’re arguing about something you seem to know nothing about.

Players don’t get paid according to their contract dollar value. They are paid as a percentage of league revenue. The salary cap and contract value aims to try and make player contracts as close as possible to what they will take home, but cap dollars and salary dollars are imaginary and the really money comes in percentages of league revenue.

If market value of a franchise center is 15% of your cap, when the cap goes up, they’re still worth 15% of your cap.

 

[Faltorvo]

The only moronic thing in this thread is how arrogantly you’re arguing about something you seem to know nothing about.

Players don’t get paid according to their contract dollar value. They are paid as a percentage of league revenue. The salary cap and contract value aims to try and make player contracts as close as possible to what they will take home, but cap dollars and salary dollars are imaginary and the really money comes in percentages of league revenue.

If market value of a franchise center is 15% of your cap, when the cap goes up, they’re still worth 15% of your cap.

to this day Dion has the 6th highest D cap hit in the league

so ya,,,,,,, MORONIC

kessel 12th highest cap forward again

MORONIC

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Whoa, I wasn’t even talking about Dion. I was talking about your understanding as a whole based on your posts and you completely missed it. Can’t say I should be surprised.

 

[nsleaf]

to this day Dion has the 6th highest D cap hit in the league

so ya,,,,,,, MORONIC

kessel 12th highest cap forward again

MORONIC

Yea, but hindsight is 20/20. All contracts are a gamble, plain and simple.

 

[Drytoast]

Yup you win

Wel... at least you didn't try to move the goal posts!