if the 2003 draft could be done all over again...

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thestonedkoala

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Aug 27, 2004
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Burns is a solid defenseman, but his ranking should be about the same. In the 20s. Now O'Sullivan? Him and Bergeron should be high up.
 

hfboardsuser

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Nov 18, 2004
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2005-06 Hamilton Bulldogs 29 GP, 10 G, 11 A, 21 Pts, 70 PIM

He's been Hamilton's best forward, and he's something like 0.05 less PPG than Parise in the AHL at the same age.
 

Jason MacIsaac

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Jan 13, 2004
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Mr Bugg said:
2005-06 Hamilton Bulldogs 29 GP, 10 G, 11 A, 21 Pts, 70 PIM

He's been Hamilton's best forward, and he's something like 0.05 less PPG than Parise in the AHL at the same age.
Forget that the AHL was a tiny bit stronger last year? I bet so...He also has to keep that pace up to be .05 PPG less then Parise. Good luck on his part.
 

Complaining Customer

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Aug 23, 2005
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I wouldn't dare re-do the draft, especially considering team needs, it's pretty much vain. What it comes down to is a poster's preferences. At the time of the draft, Horton was by far my favorite player from that class. He still is. But I'm pretty confident that if the draft was to be redone, neither the Penguins nor the Canes would change their picks (in fact, I think the top 5 would stay exactly the same).
 

hfboardsuser

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Forget that the AHL was a tiny bit stronger last year? I bet so...He also has to keep that pace up to be .05 PPG less then Parise. Good luck on his part.

So what if it was? That's still pretty impressive of a guy you've... what is it you had to say about Jacques, Jason? I don't remember exactly.
 

Jason MacIsaac

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Mr Bugg said:
So what if it was? That's still pretty impressive of a guy you've... what is it you had to say about Jacques, Jason? I don't remember exactly.
Not too much more impressive then what Vrana is doing on a much weaker Albany team. You know, the devils 2nd round pick.
 

hfboardsuser

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Nov 18, 2004
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Much weaker? Hamilton has only allowed 5 less goals and scored 9 more, AND they have two games in hand on the River Rats. They're not as different as you think they are.

Fine, if you can claim such a miniscule difference is so large that you can say "much weaker", Jacques' 0.724 PPG average is MUCH higher than Vrana's 0.629.

But that still didn't answer my question. What is it you think Jacques' professional output and success was before this season, Jason?
 

Belizarius

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Sep 17, 2003
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You can't rate Jacques in the 1st round and taking him BEFORE at least 10-15 players who played already some games in the NHL. He's going to be a good player but some of the other picks ARE already NHLers. Not him. When he'll play in the NHL maybe I can reconsider his status, but not yet.
 

MS

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Mar 18, 2002
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Just the guys in the first round, because including everyone is really complicated:

1. Eric Staal
2. Dion Phaneuf
3. Nathan Horton
4. Jeff Carter
5. Thomas Vanek
6. Ryan Suter
7. Brent Seabrook
8. MA Fleury
9. Mike Richards
10. Dustin Brown
11. Braydon Coburn
12. Milan Michalek
13. Ryan Getzlaf
14. Corey Perry
15. Nikolai Zherdev
16. Eric Fehr
17. Zach Parise
18. Ryan Kesler
19. Brent Burns
20. Anthony Stewart
21. Jeff Tambellini
22. Steve Bernier
23. Patrick Eaves
24. Robert Nilsson
25. Andrei Kostitsyn
26. MA Pouliot
27. Mark Stuart
28. Brian Boyle
29. Shawn Belle
30. Hugh Jessiman

- Zherdev is a creampuff. Skilled, but not the sort of player you win with. I suspect a year from now I'll rate him even lower once some more guys have cracked the NHL full-time.

- people will disagree with where I put Fleury, but whatever.
 

Herby

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Feb 27, 2002
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MS said:
Just the guys in the first round, because including everyone is really complicated:

1. Eric Staal
2. Dion Phaneuf
3. Nathan Horton
4. Jeff Carter
5. Thomas Vanek
6. Ryan Suter
7. Brent Seabrook
8. MA Fleury
9. Mike Richards
10. Dustin Brown
11. Braydon Coburn
12. Milan Michalek
13. Ryan Getzlaf
14. Corey Perry
15. Nikolai Zherdev
16. Eric Fehr
17. Zach Parise
18. Ryan Kesler
19. Brent Burns
20. Anthony Stewart
21. Jeff Tambellini
22. Steve Bernier
23. Patrick Eaves
24. Robert Nilsson
25. Andrei Kostitsyn
26. MA Pouliot
27. Mark Stuart
28. Brian Boyle
29. Shawn Belle
30. Hugh Jessiman
.

That is by far the best list I have seen so far. The only problem I see with this list is Jeff Carter is rated too high, he should be in the 9-12 range with Richards, Brown and Michalek.

Really good looking list, and your right, its to complicated factoring in later rolunds.
 

KallioWeHardlyKnewYe

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May 30, 2003
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I can't get over with how impressive this draft was. There really is hardly any duds there at this point. Obviously that will alter with time, but this draft looks a lot more impressive sooner than any recent drafts that I can recall.

Staal's still #1 for me. Would've taken him first then and still now. I'm a Jackets fan and I have no idea how anyone could rank Zherdev ahead of Staal.
By the same token, despite Z's struggles this year, I disagree that he is in the middle of the pack, as some of have said. But we all have our opinions.

Suter is another guy I like a lot.

Overrated- Kesler. I like his game. He's an OSU guy and I liked him in college, but he's a grinder. Probably will be a good one too, but I'm not a big fan of picking up grinders in the 1st round. Just my take.

If there is a dud, I think it has to be Jessiman. That isn't to say he'll never be good, but at this point in time, thats the worst looking pick.
 

Kafka

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Mar 1, 2002
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Mr Bugg said:
2005-06 Hamilton Bulldogs 29 GP, 10 G, 11 A, 21 Pts, 70 PIM

He's been Hamilton's best forward, and he's something like 0.05 less PPG than Parise in the AHL at the same age.

Corey Locke, drafted in the fourth round of the same draft has better stats... and still I wouldn't put him in the top 30.
 

barfy2000

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Jun 23, 2005
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Herby said:
That is by far the best list I have seen so far. The only problem I see with this list is Jeff Carter is rated too high, he should be in the 9-12 range with Richards, Brown and Michalek.

Really good looking list, and your right, its to complicated factoring in later rolunds.

I agree except the fact that Nikolai Zherdev wouldnt fall to #15. Not a snowballs chance in hell. Zherdev may be having somewhat of a sophmore slump, but his potential and the play he showed in his rookie year would be too much to pass up.
 

barfy2000

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Jun 23, 2005
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KingPurpleDinosaur said:
can you really use the age argument when you're comparing kostsyn to all the other players of the same exact age?

Obviously some players have done a lot more so far in their careers, but Im pretty sure he just meant not to write him off just yet. He could still turn out to be a top 5 player from this draft, its still WAAAAY too early to tell...
 
Just looking at the first round alone.

1. Eric Staal
2. Nathan Horton
3. Nikolai Zherdev
4. Marc-Andre Fleury
5. Dion Phaneuf
6. Jeff Carter
7. Braydon Coburn
8. Ryan Suter
9. Thomas Vanek
10. Ryan Getzlaf
11. Eric Fehr
12. Brent Seabrook
13. Mike Richards
14. Corey Perry
15. Dustin Brown
16. Milan Michalek
17. Steve Bernier
18. Robert Nilsson
19. Zach Parise
20. Brent Burns
21. Ryan Kesler
22. Marc-Antoine Pouliot
23. Anthony Stewart
24. Jeff Tambellini
25. Patrick Eaves
26. Andrei Kostsitsyn
27. Mark Stuart
28. Brian Boyle
29. Shawn Belle
30. Hugh Jessiman
 

BobbyClarkeFan16

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Nov 29, 2005
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Lots of slagging on here towards Nik Zherdev. I kind of feel for the guy because you can see that he clearly does not want to be in Columbus. There's absolutely 0 signs that they're going to get any better as a club. They've taken a huge step backwards this season. Blame the injuries to Nash all you want, but there is some good talent there in Columbus. They shouldn't be as bad as they are.

That being said, this should be the opportunity for Zherdev to step forward and become that elite winger that he can be. I think he's one of those Alex Daigle type players. All the talent in the world, but he isn't a leader and the environment he plays in is toxic to his abilities and mind set.

Now, as for the first pick of 2003, without a doubt, Dion Phaneuf. I really like Staal, but impact franchise defensemen are soooo hard to find. This guy has become the number 1 guy in Calgary and he just seems to get better and better every game he plays. Here's my list of what I think the draft redo would be:

1. Dion Phaneuf
2. Eric Staal
3. Brent Seabrook
4. Mike Richards
5. Thomas Vanek
6. Patrice Bergeron
7. Dustin Brown
8. Nathan Horton
9. Jeff Carter
10. Ryan Getzlaf
11. Ryan Suter
12. Corey Perry
13. Ryan Kesler
14. Patrick O'Sullivan
15. Danny Fritsche
16. Zach Parise
17. Jeff Tambellini
18. Braydon Coburn
19. Milan Michalek
20. Eric Fehr
21. Patrick Eaves
22. MA Pouliot
23. Nikolai Zherdev
24. MA Fleury
25. Mark Stuart
26. Shawn Belle
27. Steve Bernier
28. Danny Richmond
29. Shea Webber
30. Matt Carle

A little off the board I'll admit, but there are some really good players who are gonna make a lot of people regret not picking them in the first when they had the chance.

I also think that guys in the later part like Matt Carle and Shea Webber are going to be superstars. I know the term gets thrown around here like a hooker's pants go up and down on payday, but there's just a feeling watching these two that they are going to make a lot of people regret passing up on them.
 

Drake1588

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Heck of a draft. There are, seemingly, not a lot of poor picks in the first round.

One guy whose development is more gradual than many others is Eric Fehr, but he's excelled at every level. He was drafted #18 overall as a 35-goal scorer in the WHL at around 190 pounds. In the three years since the draft, he's put up:

2003-04: 50 goals, 34 assists, 84 points, WHL
2004-05: 59 goals, 52 assists, 111 points, WHL scoring champion
2005-06: Point-per-game scorer in the AHL to date.

He's now topping the scales at around 210 pounds, still growing into his optimal playing weight, it seems. This guy isn't the first out of the gate, by any stretch, but his production has remained of a high caliber at every level. Should be an NHL regular next season. So much talent in this draft... might take time to rank 'em all.
 

BobbyClarkeFan16

Registered User
Nov 29, 2005
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Goderich, Ontario
Drake1588 said:
Heck of a draft. There are, seemingly, not a lot of poor picks in the first round.

One guy whose development is more gradual than many others is Eric Fehr, but he's excelled at every level. He was drafted #18 overall as a 35-goal scorer in the WHL at around 190 pounds. In the three years since the draft, he's put up:

2003-04: 50 goals, 34 assists, 84 points, WHL
2004-05: 59 goals, 52 assists, 111 points, WHL scoring champion
2005-06: Point-per-game scorer in the AHL to date.

He's now topping the scales at around 210 pounds, still growing into his optimal playing weight, it seems. This guy isn't the first out of the gate, by any stretch, but his production has remained of a high caliber at every level. Should be an NHL regular next season. So much talent in this draft... might take time to rank 'em all.

I had Fehr at 20 in my redo. You're absolutely right though. He's one of those guys who flew right under the radar. The only thing that might be working against him is the fact that there isn't much talent in Washington right now and it's going to continue to be painful until GM GM gets off his backside and helps fill that roster out with some decent talent that can help these youngsters. I could really see Fehr on a line with Ovechkin and doing some serious damage. A very nice and competent player Fehr is for sure.
 

Maithz

Guest
I can see that Kostitsyn is very underrated here , he is a good project , will be a top 10 scorer ;)
 

BobbyClarkeFan16

Registered User
Nov 29, 2005
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Goderich, Ontario
HABS-65 said:
I can see that Kostitsyn is very underrated here , he is a good project , will be a top 10 scorer ;)

What exactly has Kostitsyn done to warrant himself to be rated on here? He's done nothing in Hamilton and all what everyone hears is this hype about Kostitsyn and him being a goal scoring machine. I haven't seen this goal scoring machine and I've seen someone who looks completely dumbfounded by the system used in Montreal.

Montreal blew it with Kostitsyn. He could have been an incredibly gifted goal scoring winger and he's nothing more than a would-be, should-be, never-will-be type player.
 

J17 Vs Proclamation

Registered User
Oct 29, 2004
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BobbyClarkeFan16 said:
Lots of slagging on here towards Nik Zherdev. I kind of feel for the guy because you can see that he clearly does not want to be in Columbus. There's absolutely 0 signs that they're going to get any better as a club. They've taken a huge step backwards this season. Blame the injuries to Nash all you want, but there is some good talent there in Columbus. They shouldn't be as bad as they are.

That being said, this should be the opportunity for Zherdev to step forward and become that elite winger that he can be. I think he's one of those Alex Daigle type players. All the talent in the world, but he isn't a leader and the environment he plays in is toxic to his abilities and mind set.

Now, as for the first pick of 2003, without a doubt, Dion Phaneuf. I really like Staal, but impact franchise defensemen are soooo hard to find. This guy has become the number 1 guy in Calgary and he just seems to get better and better every game he plays. Here's my list of what I think the draft redo would be:

1. Dion Phaneuf
2. Eric Staal
3. Brent Seabrook
4. Mike Richards
5. Thomas Vanek
6. Patrice Bergeron
7. Dustin Brown
8. Nathan Horton
9. Jeff Carter
10. Ryan Getzlaf
11. Ryan Suter
12. Corey Perry
13. Ryan Kesler
14. Patrick O'Sullivan
15. Danny Fritsche
16. Zach Parise
17. Jeff Tambellini
18. Braydon Coburn
19. Milan Michalek
20. Eric Fehr
21. Patrick Eaves
22. MA Pouliot
23. Nikolai Zherdev
24. MA Fleury
25. Mark Stuart
26. Shawn Belle
27. Steve Bernier
28. Danny Richmond
29. Shea Webber
30. Matt Carle

A little off the board I'll admit, but there are some really good players who are gonna make a lot of people regret not picking them in the first when they had the chance.

I also think that guys in the later part like Matt Carle and Shea Webber are going to be superstars. I know the term gets thrown around here like a hooker's pants go up and down on payday, but there's just a feeling watching these two that they are going to make a lot of people regret passing up on them.

Thats not a very list IMO. Horton and Zherdev are way to low, especially Zherdev. The guy might never fulfill his potential, but he has more upsides than virtually anyone in the draft. Horton would be top #4 easily, he is scoring at a very good rate with the best shooting % in the nhl.
Brent seabrook is to high, the guy is good but in such a deep and talented draft there is no way he goes top 3. Another guy who is to high is Mike Richards. IMO he would go around #10. The guy will be a great leader but like Seabrook in such a deep draft he isnt good enough to go top 5.
Ryan kesler is also abit to high, and perhaps has the least upsides out of anyone in the 1st rounder. I just dont like seeing 3rd liners being taken in the 1st round of any draft.

Im not a big fan of MAF either, but he would go higher than #24. Teams are always looking for franchise goalies and he wouldnt slip outisde the top 10. Infact if the draft were re-done, he would go #1 (not because he is the best) because the Penguins need a goaltender.
 

pei fan

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Jan 3, 2004
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Wow.Phaneuf still not getting enough respect and what about MAF.These guys go ahead of Horton and Zherdev.Do you guys not realize defenceman are considered to take a couple of extra years in devlopment than forwards and goalies a year or two in addition to defenceman.Phaneuf is ahead of any young defenceman in a long time and Fleury is doing very well in a very difficult situation.
 
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