If St.Louis kept Adam Oates

Whaleafs

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In retrospect it was clearly a horrible move, but from what I have read it was more or less forced on the Blues by Oates' attitude & issues with his contract. That being said, if St. Louis had resolved the issues and he spent another say 6 or 7 years with the Blues, assuming Hull still leaves in '98, how insane would Brett Hull's goal totals have been ?

IMO he'd easily have been a career 800 goal scorer.
 
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Michael Whiteacre

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Then Brett Hull would not have needed to carry Craig Janney and help him help boost Brett's goal totals from the second half of '91-'92 onwards. Instead, Brett would still have continued to be carried by Oates, even though Brett was more than capable of being a megastar with or without Oates. Brett Hull and Adam Oates were a much better pairing since Oates' playmaking was at his best for much of his tenures with St. Louis and Boston.
 

tony d

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I think Hull could have got a 4th straight 70 goal season in 1992-1993. Also got to think they could have got to the Conference final that year. Hull and Oates made 1 another IMO.
 
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Big Phil

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It was just one of those bad deals. Somehow you have to figure out a way to come to terms with your top centre especially when he is helping Hull with some historical seasons.
 
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vadim sharifijanov

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It was just one of those bad deals. Somehow you have to figure out a way to come to terms with your top centre especially when he is helping Hull with some historical seasons.

agree.

i know there’s at least one blues fan who is salty about the way oates conducted himself, and maybe he did behave not so honorably, but who lost in that standoff?

not adam oates, who did not miss a beat and finished third in points two more times in the next two years and played 12 more seasons, making god knows how many millions of dollars.

oates played in two finals after the trade. how many did the blues? sometimes swallowing your pride is your best option.
 
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member 83027

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The Wings should have kept him, back in the day, doh.

Well.....

The Wings tried to give away Oates earlier along with Ray Staszak to the Blues as part of compensation for signing Jacques Demers. Harry Ornest instead settled for revenue from exhibition games.
1987 4-17 Jacques Demers settlement.JPG
 

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It was just one of those bad deals. Somehow you have to figure out a way to come to terms with your top centre especially when he is helping Hull with some historical seasons.
Not when the guy wants to renegotiate his contract for a 3rd time.

Oates was a whiner. Oates sealed his fate with the Blues when he refused to come out and be acknowledged for being one of the stars of the game. Shanahan ordered him traded and he was, Good riddance to him. Of course Oates also worked his way out of Boston. He had all the skill in the world but a me first player.

It really doesn't matter because the Blues didn't win without him but no way they win the Cup with him.
 

Bluesguru

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Couple interesting points here. Yeah, Hull might of hit 800 had Oates stayed and yeah, Hull might of had 1 more 70 goal season. I think both those points are plausible.

But what about Oates and that career year he had in Boston with 145 points? I really wonder if Oates would of had that season had he stayed in STL? Oates had 24 PP goals that year in Boston. Can't imagine him having that kind of year here in STL, especially with those PP numbers. Boston must of used Oates in some different capacity than he was used in STL and Oates must of been extra motivated to prove himself after that trade which led to that career year he had.

Here's more food for thought, Oates had 103 PP goals in his career, and he had 40 of those in 2 seasons with Boston. Crazy.
 

The Panther

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Couple interesting points here. Yeah, Hull might of hit 800 had Oates stayed and yeah, Hull might of had 1 more 70 goal season. I think both those points are plausible.

But what about Oates and that career year he had in Boston with 145 points? I really wonder if Oates would of had that season had he stayed in STL? Oates had 24 PP goals that year in Boston. Can't imagine him having that kind of year here in STL, especially with those PP numbers. Boston must of used Oates in some different capacity than he was used in STL and Oates must of been extra motivated to prove himself after that trade which led to that career year he had.

Here's more food for thought, Oates had 103 PP goals in his career, and he had 40 of those in 2 seasons with Boston. Crazy.
Good points. Yeah, Adam was really feelin' his oats in Boston on the power-play. Still, Brett Hull had been sowing his wild oats for three years prior, and I do think he would have put up one more 70-ish-goal season if he had played again with his buddy in 1992-93, instead of with Craig Janney whom he didn't know from Adam. When the Blues decided to break up Hull & Oats, the duo should have walked into management and sang, "I Can't Go For That (No Can Do)"!
 

Whaleafs

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In retrospect it was clearly a horrible move, but from what I have read it was more or less forced on the Blues by Oates' attitude & issues with his contract. That being said, if St. Louis had resolved the issues and he spent another say 6 or 7 years with the Blues, assuming Hull still leaves in '98, how insane would Brett Hull's goal totals have been ?

IMO he'd easily have been a career 800 goal scorer.

Here's the full stats of their time together and few years after. Both of their first 100 point season was the first year playing together:

Hull
YearGPGAPTS
89-90807241113
90-91788645131
Pre-Trade91-9254542781
Post-Trade91-9219161228
Total91-92737039 109
92-9380 54 47 101
93-94 8157 40 97
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Oates
YearGPGAPTS
89-90802379102
90-91612590115
Pre-Trade91-9254105969
Post-Trade91-9226102030
Total 91-92 80 20 79 99
92-93 84 45 97 142
93-94 77 32 80 112
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Hull has a career 741 goals, so an average of 10 more goals for 6 seasons and there's 800. Hull never broke 60 a year again and production slowly tapered off after '93. Oates had a career year the first full season in Boston, another stellar one after, then the same slow decline. This also coincides with the DPE starting which likely would have affected their production even if they both stayed in St.Louis.
 
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wintersej

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Couple interesting points here. Yeah, Hull might of hit 800 had Oates stayed and yeah, Hull might of had 1 more 70 goal season. I think both those points are plausible.

But what about Oates and that career year he had in Boston with 145 points? I really wonder if Oates would of had that season had he stayed in STL? Oates had 24 PP goals that year in Boston. Can't imagine him having that kind of year here in STL, especially with those PP numbers. Boston must of used Oates in some different capacity than he was used in STL and Oates must of been extra motivated to prove himself after that trade which led to that career year he had.

Here's more food for thought, Oates had 103 PP goals in his career, and he had 40 of those in 2 seasons with Boston. Crazy.

Neely only played 13 games in Oates first season. He was asked to shoot more and I am sure was motivated to prove he wasn't just Hull's sidekick.

Oates is still one of the most underrated guys to play. Bums me out the most we really got to see Oates/Neely play together was in Neely's highly injured years where he only played 40 odd games a season and was gutting through those games. After Neely's 50 goals in 49 games with Oates, I was fully expecting Neely to put up a couple of Brett Hull type seasons once he got healthy. He never got healthy.
 

blogofmike

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Dec 16, 2010
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I'd say Hull adds maybe 5 goals a year? Hull was scoring at a similar rate in games with/without Oates during his three year run.
 

blood gin

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Jan 17, 2017
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Also wondered what was up with Oates personality wise. He always just kind of looked like a jerk (punchable face syndrome) but not every person that has that is actually a bad person

The point totals were always there. Not like he stopped playing.

Interesting he's a coach now along with another world class jerk Tom Barrasso. Wonder if they've learned/changed or are still the same.

Fwiw I was always impressed with the point totals Oates continued to put up into his late 30s during the dead puck era (though pre 2005 the NHL was more of an old mans league)
 

leftwinger37

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Jun 7, 2011
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Not when the guy wants to renegotiate his contract for a 3rd time.

Oates was a whiner. Oates sealed his fate with the Blues when he refused to come out and be acknowledged for being one of the stars of the game. Shanahan ordered him traded and he was, Good riddance to him. Of course Oates also worked his way out of Boston. He had all the skill in the world but a me first player.

I was quite young when Oates was in his heyday and always thought in retrospect that he didn't completely get his due for the kind of impact he had in STL and Boston. Of course, I also didn't find out about all of the contract stuff until much later, so I'm certain that plays a big part in his legacy as far as casting a bit of a shadow over what he accomplished during those peak years.

It's just funny that you call one of the top-two pure play-makers of his era a "me first player." I completely understand why you say that and there is some truth to that, but that did not translate to his game. "Money Player" is a term that gets thrown around and that's the category that I would put him in. Certainly nothing wrong with being a player of that ilk, just goes against the "good 'ol Canadian boy; work hard, keep your mouth shut, and play for the love of the game" narrative. Plenty of "me first" and "money players" in the Hall of Fame and I guess he's one of them.:dunno:

Also wondered what was up with Oates personality wise. He always just kind of looked like a jerk (punchable face syndrome) but not every person that has that is actually a bad person.

The point totals were always there. Not like he stopped playing.

Interesting he's a coach now along with another world class jerk Tom Barrasso. Wonder if they've learned/changed or are still the same.

Fwiw I was always impressed with the point totals Oates continued to put up into his late 30s during the dead puck era (though pre 2005 the NHL was more of an old mans league)

:laugh: I have totally thought this on several occasions.

My theory about Oates was that he was a lacrosse guy that happened to be very good at hockey. I just don't think he had a deep, burning passion to play hockey. I could be completely wrong about that and I don't have any type of special insight, but he just has a very mathematical approach to the game. My impression is that before RPI went on a run and won an NCAA championship, he probably had no inkling that he would play in the NHL, and once that became a reality it was more of an avenue to make a living. Most of all, I think he is/was also a very intelligent person and he carried himself like a person who knows they are very intelligent... hence the punchable face.

I also share your sentiment about being impressed with his play later in his career. Even when he was close to his expiration date, watching him and Steve Thomas playing with younger players during that 2003 Cup run with Anaheim was something special. Their skating was brutal, but their smarts were on full display. They both scored a couple huge, timely goals because they always knew where to be.

He could be a great guy or he could be a total jerk. Although it's always better when someone you look up to is a good dude, I don't really care. The guy could flat out play and I really enjoyed watching him do it.
 

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