Speculation: If Leafs Brass view Nylander as a Winger

[Boutette]

Why should Bozak in the last season be the end of all comparisons? It was an anomaly more than anything else.

Actually, Bozak's season wasn't an anomaly. It offered a demonstration of the steady decline of both his shooting percentage and his faceoff percentage. His shooting percentage peaked in 2013-2014 at 21%. Since then it has dropped yearly to last year's abysmal 7%. Its not clear if this is due to his job becoming lobbing low percentage shots at the net in the hopes of a JvR tip in, but to go from 19-21-14-12-12-7 is high cause for concern for a player whose prime asset is his offencive talent. His faceoff percentage is declining as well, although not as precipitously. And when the two prime reasons for keeping a guy on your squad are steadily heading into the bucket, you know what the future looks like, and its not bright. One has to ask, do you want a player showing this decline as your 3rd line center, and what are you going to lose over the near tear, looking at that clear decline. And you also might look at the 22 years old who could replace him, and have to say, how much better is that guy going to get, and is he actually better at that position already.

 

[Rielly4]

Nylander has a long history of playing C at every level. People try and point out the two instances when he played wing outside the NHL in the World championships and with his dad...Kinda grasping at straws.

Fact is he has even done well in the NHL as a C when he first came into the league with wingers who are no longer in the NHL. Give him a line with two speedy and talented wingers like Johnsson and Kapanen and he could do some serious damage. This line would generate a ton off the rush and will have the legs to be terrific on the forecheck and backcheck. Kapanen is a terrific defensive forward and could help Nylander greatly with some of the back checking responsibility.

lets assume there are 5o 5 on 5 minutes per game.

Marleau-Matthews-Marner (16 mins 5 on 5)
Hyman-Kadri-Brown(13 mins 5 on 5)
Johnsson-Nylander-Kapanen(13 mins 5 on 5)
Grundstrom-Aaltonen-Marchment(8 mins 5 on 5)

Thats a team with a good amount of speed and tenacity with good balance.

Top PP of: Matthews, Kadri, Nylander, Marner, Rielly getting majority of PP minutes.
PK: Kapanen, Hyman, Brown, Grundstrom

Maybe add a 4C and potentially a big bodied winger in UFA.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Expanding on the ice time question, with 50 even strength minutes and an average of 5 minutes of each special teams. Our ice time division, in a hypothetical lineup, could then be:

Johnsson (16½) - Matthews (18½) - Grundström (15)
Marleau (16½) - Kadri (17½) - Marner (17½)
Hyman (16) - Nylander (17½) - Kapanen (16)
Aaltonen (9½) - Lindholm (9) - Brown (10½)

This is with even strength division of 15 - 14 - 14 - 7.
PP1 getting 3½ out of 5 minutes to the following: Matthews, Kadri, Marner, Nylander
PP2 getting 1½ out of 5 minutes to the following: Marleau, Johnsson, Brown, Aaltonen
PK divided into three groups getting the division of 2 (Hyman, Brown), 2 (Kapanen, Lindholm), 1 (Aaltonen, Marleau)

It'll be tweaked according to game situations, extra shifts to Marner and Matthews, and things like that, but I don't think that looks too shabby?

Actually, Bozak's season wasn't an anomaly.

You misunderstood. I meant that Babcock not playing the third line was an anomaly as he completely soured on Bozak.

 

[Iapyi]

That's your prerogative. I don't really see the point of coming to a discussion board if all you want to do is state opinions and then not discuss them though.

You discuss things your way and I'll do it my way. In the end all any of us have are our opinions about this until one of us is proven right or wrong and the rest of it is either to the point or senseless blather.

 

[Iapyi]

It's not an obsession, Nylander's had success playing center in the AHL, in international tournaments, and in Sweden. He did not look out of place in his first year on the Leafs either, showing tons of promise. The Leafs have obviously been grooming him for the center position by having him take faceoffs and be in charge of out of zone transitions on the Matthews line... if we are to assume that Bozak is not part of the Leafs' long term plans, Nylander can (and should) be up to the task of playing a sheltered role as early as next year. He'll be that much stronger next year and consequently that much more suited for the job.

And y'all are making a big deal about playing time. Fact is that line compositions are never set in stone and that having three balanced lines not only diversifies our attack but it also keeps our players on their toes. Offense is not the issue with the team. Rather, it is the overall commitment to defense. Spreading out our talents ensures that no one gets a free ride riding on another's coattails but also helps Babcock better manage his players, especially those that aren't playing the right way. And there's also the sports science aspect as well...

In my opinion he is not an NHL centre, time will tell. Taking FO's is hardly the way to groom someone for the position. Allan Stanley (who was a dman) used to take FOs in the defensive zone, for all that matters.

 

[Gallagbi]

In my opinion he is not an NHL centre, time will tell. Taking FO's is hardly the way to groom someone for the position. Allan Stanley (who was a dman) used to take FOs in the defensive zone, for all that matters.

Why do you think he's not an NHL C? Everytime he's been there he looks more engaged and able to use his strengths, which are anticipation and a quick stick.

On the wing he's forced in to more battles, which is where he struggles.

 

[Iapyi]

Why do you think he's not an NHL C? Everytime he's been there he looks more engaged and able to use his strengths, which are anticipation and a quick stick.

On the wing he's forced in to more battles, which is where he struggles.

His complete lack of defensive wherewithal.

In the games he played centre some posters are all agush about how he looked in the offensive zone but in the neutral zone he was not in position.

In the defensive zone I was cringing the entire time he was on the ice as he was all over the place and clearly looking for a breakout pass instead of meeting his defensive responsibilities.

Like I have said maybe he can figure this all out, my guess is he won't. In addition to all of this I like him on Matthews wing which has no bearing on him not being cut out for a centre job.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I think hew looked more engaged when he played C. I just wish they would have given him some more time there......among other things that weren't tried

 

[Notsince67]

His complete lack of defensive wherewithal.

In the games he played centre some posters are all agush about how he looked in the offensive zone but in the neutral zone he was not in position.

In the defensive zone I was cringing the entire time he was on the ice as he was all over the place and clearly looking for a breakout pass instead of meeting his defensive responsibilities.

Like I have said maybe he can figure this all out, my guess is he won't. In addition to all of this I like him on Matthews wing which has no bearing on him not being cut out for a centre job.

Really hard to constantly switch from winger to center. I hate when the coach does it for my own son. Mind you, he is only 14 yrs old, though he is already taller than Willy.

 

[Iapyi]

Really hard to constantly switch from winger to center. I hate when the coach does it for my own son. Mind you, he is only 14 yrs old, though he is already taller than Willy.

I like Nylander but he can't even meet his defensive responsibilities on the wing let alone centre where they are magnified. Some other posters get excited about how he looked in the Ozone but they don't seem to understand the importance of the big picture.

 

[Gallagbi]

His complete lack of defensive wherewithal.

In the games he played centre some posters are all agush about how he looked in the offensive zone but in the neutral zone he was not in position.

In the defensive zone I was cringing the entire time he was on the ice as he was all over the place and clearly looking for a breakout pass instead of meeting his defensive responsibilities.

Like I have said maybe he can figure this all out, my guess is he won't. In addition to all of this I like him on Matthews wing which has no bearing on him not being cut out for a centre job.

I'd suggest you go back and watch those games at C, his tendency in the defensive zone is to stay on the fence, it was rare to see him break early. There was some confusion with him and Matthews as they'd often alternate C responsibility, but when he was actually playing C he was down low in his zone looking to make himself an outlet and get in passing lanes. You saw this in his AHL days and international play as well, not just his short stints in the NHL.

 

[Notsince67]

I like Nylander but he can't even meet his defensive responsibilities on the wing let alone centre where they are magnified. Some other posters get excited about how he looked in the Ozone but they don't seem to understand the importance of the big picture.

They are different responsibilities. I think his defensive positioning is totally aligned to center. He gravitates to the goal line opposed to the hashmarks or slot

 

[Liminality]

I like Nylander but he can't even meet his defensive responsibilities on the wing let alone centre where they are magnified. Some other posters get excited about how he looked in the Ozone but they don't seem to understand the importance of the big picture.

Babcock has said numerous positive things on Nylander at center on the defensive side. I remember when he was tasked with going head to head against Malkin and Babcock thought that was one of his best games. Unless another big name center comes a long, I'd almost guarantee that Nylander is being groomed into a center long term and it seems like Babcock thinks so too.

This is what development is for and what Babcock is trying to accomplish.

 

[Martin Skoula]

People realize that good defense isn't necessarily buzzing around the ice at top speed all game like Hyman right? Waiting in the right spot and cutting off lanes/giving teammates an outlet is usually more effective and reliable.

 

[nuck]

If the Leafs brass have analyzed Nylander’s game prior to his extension talks and have decided he’s a winger long term (rather than a center), how does this impact the Leafs approach to A) future trades, and B) the 2018 draft?

A) Future Trades: Some will feel that Nylander as a pure winger changes nothing, and that the team simply moves forward with Mathews at C and two star right wingers earning the biggest cap hits. Personally, I feel that if Nylander is viewed as a winger by the Leafs, it might be wise to explore trading Nylander for a (potential) top pairing RHD who is under 25. Nylander has plenty of value right now (young, 2 60 point seasons already) and will have even more if signed to a good contract. Even if the Leafs feel he is a future winger, at least a few GMs out there still currently see him as a potential C option this summer, which will raise his current value even more. What kind of D does a 21 year old 60 point C fetch?

B) 2018 Draft: If Nylander is a winger, the Leafs will need a young C to be the 1-2 punch with Matthews, especially once Kadri starts to slip. They likely won’t find one at #25, so one strategy would be to trade up (rather than down) in this draft. By trading up they could grab a player like Barrett Hayton in the 15-20 range, who may be a future scoring line C in the NHL. I feel it might be worth a 3rd or a 2019 2nd to move up 6-8 spots and select that level of player, who could potentially replace Nylander at Center on the cheap.

I think they should be trading up regardless of Nylanders future. Even in a good year things get thin picking in the 20s. All things being equal a center with size would be great but if they are trading up it should be for the BPA and let that player push to move someone else out. I think they need some agressiveness to provide what Leo and to a lesser extent Martin could provide in the top 9. The Leafs only seem to be able to play one style of game and that is too narrow.

Any player drafted now would not push Willie for a few years anyways so I don't think his position should determine draft direction.

My guess is his status is still uncertain and that he will be given more games in the middle this year to earn the spot, barring a Tavares signing of course.

 

[diceman934]

People realize that good defense isn't necessarily buzzing around the ice at top speed all game like Hyman right? Waiting in the right spot and cutting off lanes/giving teammates an outlet is usually more effective and reliable.

Do you also realize that you mentioning Hyman in a negative light when talking about defensive responsibility in our zone as some kind of way as to not play defensively makes anything you said pointless.
Blocking shots, getting into shooting lanes . Getting to to wall on passes up the wall and willingness to pay a price to get the puck out of our zone are alll components of playing good defensively all things that Hyman does and Willy does not do.

One more thing why has no one mentioned the possibility of Hyman playing center as Babcock trusts him to take defensive zone faceoffs as well as being on the ice late in games defensively. If a winger can show Babcock that he can play on the Left side with Mathews then do not be surprised if Hyman is a center next year if needed.

 

[Knightnight]

I will lay good money whoever is on that 3rd line see less than 16 TOI. Unless it is a Brown or Hyman. Those guys see all the Pk time and protecting close game situations. 29 and 16 never get that benefit from Babcock. 34 is GOING to demand more icetime guaranteed. Kadri or if it is JT as a second line centre are going to see a minimum of 17-18 min. There is no way a third line centre is seeing 17-18 minutes. NONE.

 

[therealkoho]

People realize that good defense isn't necessarily buzzing around the ice at top speed all game like Hyman right? Waiting in the right spot and cutting off lanes/giving teammates an outlet is usually more effective and reliable.

some reading for you
http://www.hockeyplayerdeveloper.com/TIPS/ALLZONES/ALLZONES_CentreResponsibilities.pdf

basically there is no waiting in the right spot the centres job defensively is to be down low constantly forcing the puck and always on the move looking for a chance to start a breakout or create a turnover, his other duty is to use his physicality to interrupt flow and that means throwing checks at opportune times or battling on the boards to support the Dman

her's some more from Roger Neilson: Defensive Zone Coverage
basically the same thing

it's the physicality that Nylander lacks and that is a requisite of the centre's position

 

[diceman934]

I will lay good money whoever is on that 3rd line see less than 16 TOI. Unless it is a Brown or Hyman. Those guys see all the Pk time and protecting close game situations. 29 and 16 never get that benefit from Babcock. 34 is GOING to demand more icetime guaranteed. Kadri or if it is JT as a second line centre are going to see a minimum of 17-18 min. There is no way a third line centre is seeing 17-18 minutes. NONE.

You are correct but one point Marner was used late in games defensively as he was not replaced once he moved to the Kadri line. The 3rd line center unless he plays on the PK will not see much more then 14 minutes a game and that will include PP time as well. Brown will also see more minutes then Johnsson and Kappy when most on here are giving him little amount of minutes like they have never watched Babcock coach the Leafs and young players.

 

[Knightnight]

If the team had a lead he was replaced EVERY time. He had one empty net opportunity that he actually got his only empty net point on in 2 years. Hyman brown marleau or komorov took 16s position in late game leads even late in the year. If we were trailing he stayed on the ice. But based on our record we led far more than trailed.