Mbraunm
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By statistical measures, Gretzky IS widely considered to be the best athlete of any team sport...ever.
If Gretzky played in this era, would he still be considered the GOAT?
- Thread starter Varan
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By statistical measures, Gretzky IS widely considered to be the best athlete of any team sport...ever.
RageQuit77
Registered User
Well spotted.
My main concerns are however would be there enough room for Semenko in the time machine with GOAT, his natural attachment of his own time. Even harder it is to comprehend if we need to fit also Kurri, Messier, Tikkanen and few other buddies to that same capsule to ensure the GOAT's adaptation to a harsh and unforgiving, technically evolved contemporary NHL would go smoother. After all The GOAT needs those guys to ensure he can still make a play and accumulate some spare assists against crosbies, mcdavids, bergerons, ovis, matthews, kucherovs, and barkovs.
Mbraunm
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Today’s NHL environment is not harsh or unforgiving. In fact it is much more forgiving due to how often the refs call hooking, slashing and holding now! As for accumulating assists versus the Crosbies, Bergerons, Matthews and Kucherovs of today, I will just quote one of my earlier posts:
“I watched Gretzky his entire career, and by '97 he had lost most of his skating speed, acceleration and overall finesse. He looked like a slow, broken down shadow of his former self. He was basically relying entirely on his unprecedented IQ, vision and anticipation to survive at that point and STILL out pointed younger greats such as Federov, Sundin, Forsberg, Sakic, Yzerman, Mogilny, Jagr, Modano, Hull, Pallfy, Francis, Messier, Lindros, Oates, Recchi, Shanahan, Roenick, Yashin, Fleury, Alfreddson, Bondra, Turgeon,....at the end of his career!
So I would be absolutely shocked if he did not dominate today’s game as well by a 15-30% margin.”
RageQuit77
Registered User
Yep yep. Just joking.
We talk here about things we have no ways to ensure with any kind certainty, we can only speculate.
If I have to response honestly how I think, Prime Gretzky would do very, very well in current NHL. He was decades ahead his time during his prime, but we can't know for sure, only give more or less good opinions about that pure theoretic and hypothetic scenario. Nobody can proof anything here, whatever they may claim or think.
We talk here about things we have no ways to ensure with any kind certainty, we can only speculate.
If I have to response honestly how I think, Prime Gretzky would do very, very well in current NHL. He was decades ahead his time during his prime, but we can't know for sure, only give more or less good opinions about that pure theoretic and hypothetic scenario. Nobody can proof anything here, whatever they may claim or think.
- That is false. 10 years ago scoring was lower than it is currently. Unless you want to do this BS "eye test" where we cannot actually measure things objectively.
- Never said players today suck. The skill level is higher overall mainly because goons don't really exist.
- I agree there are some exceptions, that is why I listed 7 players that came to mind. I didn't dig deep for anyone in particular, just thought of older players and looked at their stats to confirm my point. I can assure you Shanahan was entirely out of his physical prime at 37, yet still could score 40 goals.
- As for Peyton Manning, it was amazing, but he was also on a team that had an insane receiving core (D. Thomas, J. Thomas, Decker, Welker) and a very good RB in Moreno. Not to mention, you are wrong considering he was still a beast the following season. It was 2 years after where he sucked yet was carried to the Super Bowl.
CapitalsCupReality
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Yes he would. He would be more fit, have better equipment, etc...numbers would be down but he would dominate comparatively IMO.
Jamin
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It honestly blows my mind people will argue this. As a broken down old man in the dead puck Era can score but prime Gretzky wouldn't be able to because goalies were bad in the 80s, well if they were so bad wouldn't every player get 200 points? It's not that Gretzky scored so many points it's that he scored so many points over his peers who played in the same Era.
GordieHowsUrBreath
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it was lower 10 years ago? several guys scored at least 90 and a few over a 100, one guy last year reached 100 points and crosby and kane finished with 89
manning made that receiving core good, moreno sucked, and manning was washed up before that next season ended, point still remains some guys can be at their all time best in their mid 30's
GordieHowsUrBreath
Nostalgia... STOP DWELLING ON THE PAST
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hairylikebear
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The game adapted to Gretzky’s dominance, and if he played now instead of then, that adaptation would have just been delayed until now.
Gretzky wasn’t a physical freak, though his technical offensive skills were all elite. He was generational because of his ability to recognize and exploit tendencies and habits in defenders and goalies. That talent transcends eras.
Gretzky wasn’t a physical freak, though his technical offensive skills were all elite. He was generational because of his ability to recognize and exploit tendencies and habits in defenders and goalies. That talent transcends eras.
Dr Jan Itor
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GordieHowsUrBreath
Nostalgia... STOP DWELLING ON THE PAST
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Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
If by "tons" you mean 2 or 3 a year and one of them always being Jagr, then yes, even with "tons" of guys scoring over 100 points a season.
2007-2008: 5.57
2017-2018: 5.91
Source: NHL Goals Per Game
This year, scoring is the highest it has been since the 2005-2006 season. And before that, it was the 1995-1996 season. You are confusing the top producers with the league average as a whole. One guy could score 150 points, that doesn't mean league scoring is up.
As for Manning, sure he was great, but that receiving core was nasty. Those guys still produced after Petyon left. The only guy who was past his prime was Welker, but he was still solid. Moreno has 1,000 rushing and 500 receiving that season. The next year, he tore is ACL and it ended his career. Not sure how you can say he sucked lol.
Asheville
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“He appears out of no where. He passes to no one. And a goal is scored.”
Soviet coach Igor Dmitriev describing Wayne Gretzky.
See, what makes Gretz mythological for me and many others, including Mr. Dmitriev apparently, is that we see him credited with point after point after point after point....and we can't explain how he was doing it. Lemieux, Orr? Yeah, it was plain as day. But Gretzky? Smoke and mirrors. Redirection. Dude is a magician. You clearly don't have the eye for what he did, but neither did any of us. Difference is that it annoys you that his gameplay wasn't as plain as day.
Remember, it's now how. It's how....many.
Eye of Ra
Grandmaster General of the International boards
not that long ago an old and injured gretzky did this:
| 1997-98 |  New York Rangers | NHL | 82 | 23 | 67 | 90 | 28 | -11 | | | |
Canada  | OG | 6 | 0 | 4 | 4 | 2 | 3 | | | ||
| 1998-99 | New York Rangers | NHL | 70 | 9 | 53 | 62 |
Wayne and Mario are the two best players by a mile in the last 40 years. Mario threatened to quit the game because of all the clutching and grabbing. I think he'd be the most dominate in this age where they can't impede you. Make no mistake though, they'd easily be the two best players. They were just on another level.
Cameras are different today. It's really hard to tell the speed of the game from generation to generation. Remember Al Iafrate and Mike Gartner held records for years with hardest shot and fastest skater in that era. Those records aren't too far off today's standards.
SpinningEdge
Registered User
The guy in his career averaged like 2 points per game. He has like 1k more points than anyone. NO ONE is on his level.
People say Crosby is best player of this generation and he has had over 90 points like once in past 8 years.
It’s not even close. WG is the GOAT easily - it’s not even debatable if you know the slightest thing about hockey
People say Crosby is best player of this generation and he has had over 90 points like once in past 8 years.
It’s not even close. WG is the GOAT easily - it’s not even debatable if you know the slightest thing about hockey
Mbraunm
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I would encourage those who didn’t have a chance to watch Gretzky, to read the book, “Facing Wayne Gretzky” by Brian Kennedy. It is a book of interviews with forwards and defensemen who describe the challenges and strategies us d to try to shut down Gretzky. The common theme was that it was almost impossible to shut him down with systems and strategies due to the fact that his IQ was greater than the collective coaching staff’s opposing him. He instantly recognized systems which were formulated against him and wasted no time in completely dismantling them. Defensemen attested to the fact that Gretzky played hockey on a purely mental level at all times and containing him was completely different than any other star player. He would never beat you with speed, physical tools nor a crazy release, etc. Rather he invited opposing teams to play chess against him on a sheet of ice. Defensemen found it an exhausting mental experience.
Unfortunately, he was the master and his opposition were relative novices in the game of chess on ice.
I have never witnessed anything like it before or since.
Unfortunately, he was the master and his opposition were relative novices in the game of chess on ice.
I have never witnessed anything like it before or since.
EdmFlyersfan
Registered User
Put it this way if Einstein was teleported to a Modern Physics class today he would likely fail...can't compare different eras.
They are both GOATs because they were way ahead of their time and significantly above their peers.
They are both GOATs because they were way ahead of their time and significantly above their peers.
