If Gretzky played in this era, would he still be considered the GOAT?

george14

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While I agree the 80's was different, I have no doubt in my mind great players would still be great. A few examples:

- Gretzky led the league in assists and finished 5th in MVP voting at 37 years old in 1998.
- Mario finished 8th in points (91 in 67 games) at 37 years old in 2003.
- Shanahan scored 40 goals at 37 and was leading the league at 38 before he got injured.
- Selanne was a 30+ goal scorer at 40.
- Jagr....self explanatory.
- Sakic scored 100 points at 37 years old.
- Francis finished 6th in MVP voting at 38 in 2002.

All of these guys started in 1992 or earlier, with many starting in 1987 or earlier and all produced at an advanced age. I tried naming guys who had long careers over multiple eras. I have no doubt in my mind Wayne and Mario would still be the top 2 players in the game. Obviously they would not be scoring 200 points, but I do believe they would be leading the league by a decent margin.
 
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ManofSteel55

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Aug 15, 2013
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I figure this thread may cause some dissent or misunderstanding, but whatever.

He played at a level so high above his peers that when it was all said and done, he is known as the undisputed GOAT. But hockey has changed significantly over the years and got me thinking, would he have been able to dominate the likes of Crosby, OV, Malkin, Kane, etc., in this era? I think it's fair to say that no player has been head-and-shoulders above their peers in this era like Gretzky was in his.

Would he be in the conversation or already be considered the GOAT?
Today, when nobody could hook or hold Gretzky, yes, he absolutely would have been head and shoulders above everyone. He is the undisptuted GOAT because it doesn't matter what era you put him in to date, he would still be the undisptuted GOAT.
 
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Gabe the Babe

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Apr 24, 2014
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can't put LeBron over Kareem or Tim Duncan
Those are two random people to put above LeBron.

Lebron will finish his career with more points than Kareem so he’ll have that record. Most rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks of any small forward in history. So Kareem already today is a non argument. He’s an NBA Jagr. Great player. But played forever. Top 7 player but no argument for top 3. Duncan? Probably somewhere around Kareem
 

GordieHowsUrBreath

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Jun 16, 2016
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While I agree the 80's was different, I have no doubt in my mind great players would still be great. A few examples:

- Gretzky led the league in assists and finished 5th in MVP voting at 37 years old in 1998.
- Mario finished 8th in points (91 in 67 games) at 37 years old in 2003.
- Shanahan scored 40 goals at 37 and was leading the league at 38 before he got injured.
- Selanne was a 30+ goal scorer at 40.
- Jagr....self explanatory.
- Sakic scored 100 points at 37 years old.
- Francis finished 6th in MVP voting at 38 in 2002.

All of these guys started in 1992 or earlier, with many starting in 1987 or earlier and all produced at an advanced age. I tried naming guys who had long careers over multiple eras. I have no doubt in my mind Wayne and Mario would still be the top 2 players in the game. Obviously they would not be scoring 200 points, but I do believe they would be leading the league by a decent margin.

it was easier to score just 10 years ago, let alone 30 years ago

you guys think players today suck because they struggle just to score 100 points in a season, the goalies and defenseman have improved immensely

people also think older age automatically means they aren't as good as they used to be, you can be at your best at 35

take sakic for example, just because he was 37 doesn't mean he was out of his prime, peyton manning had the best season a quarterback ever had at 37, and then the next year he hit the wall

people don't all age the same, some guys hit the wall before 30 and some guys maintain their best for many years
 

Laineux

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it was easier to score just 10 years ago, let alone 30 years ago

you guys think players today suck because they struggle just to score 100 points in a season, the goalies and defenseman have improved immensely

people also think older age automatically means they aren't as good as they used to be, you can be at your best at 35

take sakic for example, just because he was 37 doesn't mean he was out of his prime, peyton manning had the best season a quarterback ever had at 37, and then the next year he hit the wall

people don't all age the same, some guys hit the wall before 30 and some guys maintain their best for many years
Even in a purely physical sport such as sprinting top tier athletes have peaked in their mid-30s.

It's not a weird thought that players in their 30s can actually be at their best in hockey where physical condition is secondary to skills and IQ.
 

authentic

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Even in a purely physical sport such as sprinting top tier athletes have peaked in their mid-30s.

It's not a weird thought that players in their 30s can actually be at their best in hockey where physical condition is secondary to skills and IQ.

Not at all. I believe any great players would still be great in later times, I just think it's obvious the gaps they had over their peers would shrink, but to what degree is hard to say. We do not know for sure that Gretzky growing up today would be the best of this era by far, let alone any better than Crosby was or McDavid is/will be. You can say it's likely that he would be based on what we know and I wouldn't deny that, but I would argue it would be extremely unlikely that he laps the field by as much and as consistently in the post 2000 era.
 

Tripod

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Gretzky’s brilliance on the ice was in part to a deep and talented team that gave him the room to operate.
Until you look that he gets traded to LA and turns 100 point Bernie Nichols into a 150 point Bernie Nichols.

Just think of this for a second. Think of Gretzky....then think of the gap from him to Giroux. Yet Giroux is 3rd in points over the last 7 years and 6th in PPG. And think how MASSIVE the gap is from Giroux to Gretzky. Gretzky would crush everyone.

As a note, I used Giroux because he is known as a guy that uses his IQ to get results as opposed to being able to rely on his physical edge like an Ovi, Sid or Malkin who have been the best of this generation.
 

Not So Mighty

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A 40 year career and still good enough to play in this league at age 57? That would cement him as the GOAT athlete, not just hockey player.
 

Nathaniel

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Oct 18, 2013
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Idk about Gretzky. But Lemieux would reek havoc on this league. Easily putting up 150-160 points
 

BlueBaron

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Passchendaele

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Why does anyone at all think players today are better than they were in the early 2000s?

I mean, what is this based on? Diets haven't really changed much. Wood sticks are gone, but this has nothing to to with a player's skill. This is absurd.

Lemieux or Gretzky would torch this league and make Crosby their *****.
 
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authentic

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Idk about Gretzky. But Lemieux would reek havoc on this league. Easily putting up 150-160 points

Something tells me he wouldn't do that so easily, if at all. If he did that the way scoring has been for several seasons now he would be much more dominant than he was at any time in the past and I just can't see that happening.
 

Duffalufagus

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Tough to say. He was so wimpy, but that doesn’t matter as much in today’s game. Best hockey I.Q. In history. Decent shot (better than McD).

If had all the advantages of today’s strength. And conditioning and the equipment? And he decided the “boys on the bus” lifestyle was not possible?

I’d say he’d be among the league’s best. Maybe the best. But all his records would be gone. Goaltending (including their equip) way too good now to score 92 goals or 215 points/season or, gulp, 50 goals in 39 games. The most amazing record he holds.
 

Hal 9000

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Gretzky was a great player, no doubt, but he had some advantages. First off, he played at a time when the shooters were better than the coaching systems and better than the goalies. The "dead puck" era was a causation of bigger/better goalies and stifling coaching systems. Gretzky had the good fortune of playing with an entire team of superstars such as Messier, Kurri, Coffey and Anderson (Kurri alone could score 50-70 goals per season, Coffey was a 30 goal D-man, Messier and Anderson were 40 goal scorers) . After moving to LA he paired up with Robitaille and such. Now, I'll agree that he made those players better, but they also padded his stats as well. All those players started to decline in the 1990's, but all at a pace that was relatively equal to Gretzky's even though they didn't play with Gretzky into the 90's. This is a good indication that although Gretzky enhanced their play, they were all to tier superstars with or without Gretzky. Now, If one looks at the career of Mario, here is a guy who played nearly his entire career with plugs (except Jagr for a while), battled cancer and back injuries and was able score at nearly the same pace as Gretzky and given even half decent wingers, would be unquestionably considered the GOAT. IOW, Put Lemieux on the 1980's Oilers and Gretzky on the 80's/90's Penguins and it wouldn't even be close.
 

Syrinx

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He would only be the GOAT if he were willing to put in the work that the athletes today do. His hockey vision has not changed but would not give him the advantage he had without the physical development.
 

Fig

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He would only be the GOAT if he were willing to put in the work that the athletes today do. His hockey vision has not changed but would not give him the advantage he had without the physical development.

Is this a joke? Did you even bother checking?

Gretzky was good at several sports. He played baseball and was actually offered a contract with the Toronto Blue Jays. He played Lacrosse and of course, hockey.

Gretzky was obsessed with hockey. He reportedly would train 8-10 hours a day. That's easily on par if not more than most players these days. Jagr is known for his insane training regimen, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't 8-10 hours a day. That's also ignoring the possibility where Jagr and Gretzky's true love for the game meant that not a second that training was half assed. It was his vocation as well as his hobby. You can't ask someone to put in that type of quality work unless that person doesn't really see it as work.

Jagr was a force in his career in the NHL. He was a force even as an old man in the modern NHL. Gretzky was in a tier above him. You can't merely say, the players sucked in Gretzky's time, but he had superstars around him. A player of Gretzky's ilk in the modern day NHL would do what Joe Thornton did with players like Cheechoo and Setoguchi, a dozen times over and more. I still don't understand how so many posters don't realize that a huge facet of Gretzky's game was about making himself a decoy and utilizing his teammates to score.

When I was growing up, I tried so hard to hate Gretzky, but I couldn't. That talent was undeniable.

Again, Gretzky easily would be GOAT, but expecting his records to get a haircut isn't unreasonable either.
 
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Thenameless

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Apr 29, 2014
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No. Orr or Mario would be the GOAT.

There could be a lot of truth to this comment. It's basically understood by most that Gretzky would still be the best in this era, but he would not be able to lap the field by as much as he did in the 80's. I suspect a bad year in today's game would have Gretzky reaching around 130 points, while a peak year in today's game might have him reaching around 170 points. It would certainly open up discussions on relative dominance of peers during peak years between Orr, Lemieux, and Gretzky.
 

Legionnaire

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He would only be the GOAT if he were willing to put in the work that the athletes today do. His hockey vision has not changed but would not give him the advantage he had without the physical development.

Well? What are you doing here posting about it? Go work out and then play in the NHL.
 

Legionnaire

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No, honestly. That seems to be the only hold up. I'm hitting the gym as we speak (phones and shit). I will be playing in the NHL tomorrow! How about you? What you putting up, bro? How many reps?
 

RageQuit77

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If Wayne would spend next few years training intensely his strength, skating, and post-retirement hockey IQ as well as playing routine for exhibitions in contemporary NHL hockey, for signing in back to the game, and making his own "Howe", he would indeed be considered GOAT solely based on his past career and legendary status. Where ever he would play there would be his jersey hanging on a roof.

This is of course only very remotely plausible hypothetic scenario to actually happen and Wayne would likely be kind of TOI 3-5 minutes PR relic granpa of a 4th line on ice, without much production or anything too flashy. His PR value would be high, but still negligible when comparing to a value of a spot in the roster he would take out from some rising AHL prospect, however.

Prime Gretzky from '80s would need time machine, and probably rather long period of adaptation to the contemporary hockey, but I think he would be capable to perform successfully to earn permanent 1st/2nd line spot after few seasons. Skill, and generational IQ wouldn't lose anywhere in the time warp.

Anyway, I hope he stays out of rinks, and that he won't be used as a guinea pig in some dubious time travel experiments. ;)
 

Legionnaire

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If Wayne would spend next few years training intensely his strength, skating, and post-retirement hockey IQ as well as playing routine for exhibitions in contemporary NHL hockey, for signing in back to the game, and making his own "Howe", he would indeed be considered GOAT solely based on his past career and legendary status. Where ever he would play there would be his jersey hanging on a roof.

This is of course only very remotely plausible hypothetic scenario to actually happen and Wayne would likely be kind of TOI 3-5 minutes PR relic granpa of a 4th line on ice, without much production or anything too flashy. His PR value would be high, but still negligible when comparing to a value of a spot in the roster he would take out from some rising AHL prospect, however.

Prime Gretzky from '80s would need time machine, and probably rather long period of adaptation to the contemporary hockey, but I think he would be capable to perform successfully to earn permanent 1st/2nd line spot after few seasons. Skill, and generational IQ wouldn't lose anywhere in the time warp.

Anyway, I hope he stays out of rinks, and that he won't be used as a guinea pig in some dubious time travel experiments. ;)

I had an actual response until I realized you were just being facetious. Well done!
 
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