If Bobby Orr was a forward?

[SML]

Comparing Orr and Coffey is like comparing Socrates to Moe Howard. Orr was stellar defensively,continually blocking shots,disrupting offenses and doing all the dirty work. Paul Coffey was a perfectly placed fourth forward with average defensive effort.

Hilarious...

 

[DCHockeyFan]

What if Gretzky was a Goalie ? His GAA would be -5.00 and he'd have 2000 Wins.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

It indicates that he was better offensively but worse defensively, no?

Yes, that's correct. On a per-minute basis, Gretzky would be significantly more productive than somebody like Borque, but he would be significantly worse defensively. No surprises here.

Thanks for the expanded info, much appreciated.
Another question for you; you mentioned gretzky and Lemieux averaged being in on 80-85 % of the goals their teams scored. do you have such a figure for Orr?

The all-time leaders (min. 500 gp):
Wayne Gretzky - 81.2%
Mario Lemieux - 79.7%
Denis Savard - 77.8%
Gerry Meehan - 77.3%
Peter Forsberg - 76.7%
Mike Bossy - 76.7%
Alexei Yashin - 76.6%
Pierre Turgeon - 76.1%
Bernie Federko - 76.0%
Stan Mikita - 75.9%

This is a really strange list. It's no surprise to see Gretzky, Lemieux, Forsberg, Bossy and Mikita. Yashin and Federko were both very good players that often had weak linemates, so that probably explains their presence. I know very little about Meehan, but he spent a lot of time on bad teams (expansion Sabres, Flames and Capitals) and still scored a respectable 423 points.

(These stats are current as of 2003. Jagr was really close to making the list then and given his strong performance over the past seasons, he probably kicked out Mikita for 10th place).

This is actually one of the the few offensive categories that Orr doesn't dominate. Yes, he's in first, but it's not by the huge margin you'd probably expect. That's probably because Orr played with great teammates--Orr of course would be great anywhere, but his participation rate would be lower on a team with many strong players.

Orr - 52.9%
Housley - 51.3%
Coffey - 49.5%
Bourque - 48.5%
MacInnis - 47.0%
Potvin - 46.7%
Leetch - 46.6%
Wilson - 44.8%
Murphy - 43.9%
Howe - 43.8%
Blake - 42.8%
Lidstrom - 42.2%
Chelios - 42.0%
Niedermayer - 40.1%
Pronger - 38.4%
Stevens - 38.3%
Lowe - 29.9%
Langway - 28.5%
Foote - 27.3%
Ludwig - 20.9%
Daneyko - 18.1%

 

[Fish on The Sand]

I think we're forgetting that his value on defense was greater than any other defenseman's while scoring at a rate better than the best forwards.

I disagree with you. Look at Sergei Fedorov as an example. Orr likely would have been converted to a forward in junior.

 

[ilovehockey]

Wasn't the year when Gretzky scored 378 goals, he was playing defence. I remember Walter talking about Wayne could could be out every 2nd shift because there was only 4 defencemen per team, but one ended up breaking a leg so the other 2 rotated while Wayne played the whole time. Imagine if Wayne would of stayed at D he would of destroyed all of Bobby Orr's Scoring records for defencemen.

 

[Stonefly]

Wasn't the year when Gretzky scored 378 goals, he was playing defence. I remember Walter talking about Wayne could could be out every 2nd shift because there was only 4 defencemen per team, but one ended up breaking a leg so the other 2 rotated while Wayne played the whole time. Imagine if Wayne would of stayed at D he would of destroyed all of Bobby Orr's Scoring records for defencemen.

 

[BNHL]

Wasn't the year when Gretzky scored 378 goals, he was playing defence. I remember Walter talking about Wayne could could be out every 2nd shift because there was only 4 defencemen per team, but one ended up breaking a leg so the other 2 rotated while Wayne played the whole time. Imagine if Wayne would of stayed at D he would of destroyed all of Bobby Orr's Scoring records for defencemen.

...and on left defense Wayne Gretzky,playing right defense Dave Semenko,and in net with a 6.00 GAA..........

 

[Crazyhorse]

I have some other great ones:

What if Bobby Orr was a plumber?

He would be able to plunge a toilet in 4 seconds flat, collect on the bill and be to the next house while other plubmers are all still at the shop trying to pull up their pants.

What if Bobby Orr was an astronaut?

He would have landed on the moon in 1963, Mars in 1967 and he would have walked on the sun by 1974. Neil Armstrong would have been fired by NASA and become a shoe salesman in suburban Houston.

What if Bobby Orr had endorsed Hawkins cheezies rather than Planters peanuts?

Planters would have gone out of business in 1978 and the CEO of planters would have ended up homeless, banging sticks on a plastic bucket to make music and generate a few coins from passers-by.

Hawkins would have become the largest and most powerful snack food company on the planet and have battled with Wal-Mart and Microsoft for the title of largest company in the world.

What if Bobby Orr was born female?

Bobbi Orr would have only won 6 Norris Trophies and peaked out at 125 points in her best season. She would also have married Phil Esposito.

Great post.

Some restraint, huh?

 

[Stonefly]

People who criticize Coffey so much for his defence fail to remmeber that he was probably the second best offensive weapon in the entire NHL after Gretzky for several seasons in the mid 80's. And that he played a very physical game and was dirty and a huge agitator. He did all kind of intangible things to help his teams aside from score points. And they forget how an older Coffey played superb defence in the strike year for Detroit when he debatably was the best player in the NHL over Lindros and Jagr and led his team to the finals. And he was the best player on that years Wings team not Yzerman and not Fedorov. Coffey still scored then but he was playing a different game than in Edmonton and Pittsburgh and was far more focussed on both ends of the ice and not mostly on scoring. Yet he still scored at a great pace.

Coffey is a top 10 D-MAN EVER. And he was not horrible defensively. .

Since you bring up his stint in Detroit, here's what Bowman said about him. I'm going to go ahead and say that I trust his opinion ahead of yours. He's probably just a tad more knowledgeable than you on this particular subject?
''He's not one of my favorites,'' said Bowman, referring to Coffey as a role player. ''A guy that can skate like he can, has all that talent, why can't he play defense?'... He's not as good on the power play as people think. The main thing he can do is carry the puck up the ice, but his work at the point isn't that great.''

 

[BNHL]

Since you bring up his stint in Detroit, here's what Bowman said about him. I'm going to go ahead and say that I trust his opinion ahead of yours. He's probably just a tad more knowledgeable than you on this particular subject?
''He's not one of my favorites,'' said Bowman, referring to Coffey as a role player. ''A guy that can skate like he can, has all that talent, why can't he play defense?'... He's not as good on the power play as people think. The main thing he can do is carry the puck up the ice, but his work at the point isn't that great.''

Exactly why the Bruins brought him in-power play,exactly why the Bruins dumped him-lack of productivity on the power play.