I think we have a log jam in the defense

bonjovi0308

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Gardiner - last year of his contract, I think Dubas will probably either extend him or trade him this offseason. Dubas will not commit the same mistake that Lou did.

Rielly - Not sure how his advanced stats look last season. I actually would not be surprised if he is traded (probably no one is safe with a new GM) - if you want to get something good, you have to give up something good.

Dermott - probably a Leafs next season. Floor is top 4 probably, and hopefully Babcock would give him more time on pk.

Ron Hainsey - Hope his pk time will be cut down next season. If we can push him to 3rd pairing mins in the regular season, we are in good shape.

Zaitsev - Not sure about him. While some people said his advanced stats didn't look good in his 1st year, some say his advanced stats was actually good during the playoffs vs the Bruins? Who else we can rely on to pk if we traded him?

Rosen - Keefe said he has been the best d in the Marlies. He will get a fair shot at training camp this fall, and as this coming season will be the last year of his contract, there is no point to develop him if he can't make the big club (meaning if he can't make the Leafs at training camp, either trade him or be the 1st call up due to injuries). Can play both sides. Can he pk?

Borgman - provides physical presence that the Leafs lack behind, and can actually skate. Same as Rosen the coming season will be the last year of his contract, meaning we either use him or trade him. How did his pk skill develop (if any) at the Marlies?

Carrick - While his advanced stats seems fine, I think our current d core is too packed for him to have a future with the Leafs. He can't play his own style on offense anyway with all the others in front of him. He may actually contribute much more on a bad team. I think he will get traded.

Holl - A sizable RD, I believe he has a real shot to make the big club next season, but the competition will be fierce.

Ozhiganov - hate to write him off before even the training camp starts, but again, possibly competing against Holl and Rosen (and others) for a spot with the Leafs, and it could be an uphill battle.

So there are 8-10 defense (assuming no trades or FA signings) already that may deserve a chance with the big club next season. It is good to let the players to know that no one's job is secured, but we also need to think about contract status (i.e. Gardiner, Borgman, Rosen) of several players. We may not need a big name defenseman, but ideally we may also need someone outside the organization now to pk.
 

A1LeafNation

Obsession beats talent everytime!!
Oct 17, 2010
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Rielly
Gardiner Zaitsev
Dermott Hainsey
Rosen Carrick
Borgman Holl/Ozhiganov/Liljegren

We are deep on depth defencemen and RW. Maybe a package for a top 4 RD.
 

TMLegend

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Rielly - Not sure how his advanced stats look last season. I actually would not be surprised if he is traded (probably no one is safe with a new GM) - if you want to get something good, you have to give up something good.

Better get that flame shield ready. Insinuating one of the golden boys could be traded is gonna upset a few folks around here.
 
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Voodoo Child

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Jun 16, 2009
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If we're going to trade Jake the time is now, or rather just after all the UFA have signed. I want either a 1st (low) or a high 2nd and 3rd, a solid B prospect and a young bottom six/bottom pair guy. His value will be the highest then, lowers when the season starts and every game after. If he's still with us after Christmas I imagine we'll keep him for the duration.

Morgan is the 3rd most untouchable player on the team imo. Only way is if it's a 1 for 1 for a similar young D (Trouba) or for a near similar young D with potential + (Hanifin +).

Dermott will play himself into the top four within 25 games.

Hainsey will hopefully have his usage dialed back and he walks or retires next year.

I am more than happy to give Zaitsev another year, but if problems persist I think of putting his name out there with slight retention, but he's not close to a Lucic or Eriksson level disaster, but what is? If he really shits the bed we could find suitors at 3.5 or compliance* him.

Borgman looks like he could be a good bottom pairing guy, a rare physical D in the organization.

Rosen is a real darkhorse for me, could be a top four right away, could never leave the Marlies.

Holl and Ozhiganov, Marlies.

I see Carrick as the odd man out, he has great tools but some pretty severe limitations.

My D next year looks like:

Rielly - Trade
Dermott - Zaitsev
Borgman - Hainsey
Rosen

* - CBA yay! Hope we don't have a third lockout in less than 20 years!
 
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bonjovi0308

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I am not saying we should trade Rielly, Im saying I would not be totally surprised that he would be traded for a superior upgrade. Dubas now is in charge and im pretty sure he is eager to make his mark. Trust me, i think the best way he might want to leave his mark is not to sign a big name like JT, but to make an out of the field trade or fa signing that nobody thought of, and eventually proved he is right.
 

Liminality

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Oct 22, 2008
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The thing about trading Rielly is that it doesn't make much sense.
He fits the age group at 24, he has a cap hit of 5m till 2021-22, has been getting better every year (except a down year last year).
He obviously can be traded but it just seems like a team that needs good defenders shouldn't be trading their best young defender on a great cap hit. The only way I can see him being traded if it's for a massive overpayment to the point where it doesn't make sense for the other team.

Dubas might want to make his mark on the team but I'm sure he's going to do something smarter than that.

The rest of the defense? Go ahead and trade or mix and match as you please.
 

Warden of the North

Ned Stark's head
Apr 28, 2006
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Uh no?

Rielly Gardiner Zaitsev Dermott are our only long term assets with proven NHL ability.

Liljegren is probable, but not a sure thing yet.

The rest are AHL or NHL 7th/8th/9th quality until proven otherwise, and I doubt any of them do.
 

lifelonghockeyfan

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Dec 18, 2015
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A log jam at defence???? Sure. The Leafs (and a lot of teams) have a log jam of bottom end pairings.
I'll assume Reilly, Gardiner, Dermot, Zaitsev and Hainsey are guaranteed spots, and maybe just due to their contracts.
What the Leafs need to for two of Borgman, Rosen,, Ozhiganov, Carrick, Holl (he's a UFA) to proof they are competent NHLers. It's a log jam of AHLers and guys who haven't been shown they are worth of full time NHL duty.

Tell me when there is log jam of 7/8 competent NHL Dmen.
 
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Northernguy10

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Rosen and Borgman, unike Gardiner, are RFA's... There is no panic with the coming year with regards to playing them to see what you have. It would be nice that one or both prove their NHL worth this year but there is no problem after 2018/19.
 

Buds17

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Nov 29, 2015
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If nothing else, some not having to be subject to waivers will probably work that to a more manageable number (7-8) to start the season with.

In the event of someone moving via trade, I'd expect it to be more of a depth option. Maybe Gardiner is dealt if it helps bring in a good enough return and management feels they can compensate for it.
 

BertCorbeau

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Jan 6, 2012
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There's depth. That's nice. But it isn't very top heavy. Need to develop more quality.

Would be great to unearth another Liljegren type prospect in the draft - one with a high ceiling. One, where a year or so from now, we see take off in development and people wonder how he slipped in the draft.
 

deletethis

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Mar 17, 2015
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It's not a log jam, it's a list of options. IMO there aren't really that many options. A 2nd pairing defender addition would be real nice. That addition and some improved defensive commitment from the team's forwards and we could see some significant improvement in the team's overall defensive performance.
 

Duke16

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Apr 14, 2015
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I am not all that high on Holl as an NHLer or Ozhiganov translating well after re-watching games. He takes too long to move the puck. I think Carrick is the odd man out and will be dealt as well.

Rielly, Gardiner, Dermott, Zaitsev and Hainsey are all on the team if still around. Just based on how well both Borgman/Rosen translated they should fight it out for the #6 spot, but the other will go down. Ozhiganov will likely be #7.
 

ToneDog

56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Jun 11, 2017
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I know you think Tanev is made of glass but if you get him cheap you do it, even if he only plays 60 games. If he is healthy for the playoffs we win big. We paid a 2nd + for Pleks. Tanev at least has some life left in him and he is a local boy. No brainer for me for a second or less.
 
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IBeL34f

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Jun 3, 2010
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I am not saying we should trade Rielly, Im saying I would not be totally surprised that he would be traded for a superior upgrade. Dubas now is in charge and im pretty sure he is eager to make his mark. Trust me, i think the best way he might want to leave his mark is not to sign a big name like JT, but to make an out of the field trade or fa signing that nobody thought of, and eventually proved he is right.
If Dubas really wants to prove he's right, he'll make sure several Marlies that he's spent the past few years watching over get a fair chance. Expect him to value guys like Marchment, Aaltonen, Greening, and Holl much more than Lou or Hunter might've, and to see him give them shots at cheap 4th-line, 3rd-pairing roles rather than wading through the UFA waters.

Some folks also need to understand that Dubas (along with Shanahan, and even Babcock) is a people-person, who believes that surrounding yourself with good people is just as important as surrounding yourself with good players (or, perhaps more to the point, believes that being a good person is a prerequisite for being the best player one can be) - I firmly disagree with your belief that Dubas feels he needs to make a grandiose, chest-thumping, "here-I-am" trade, just because he's the new guy in town, and am very much of the notion that he's more likely to show loyalty to what he and Shanahan have been building for the last 3 years.

Having said all of that, we do have a logjam at D, and I expect Gardiner, Carrick, and potentially Hainsey, to be moved this offseason, along with Borgman, Rosen, Ozhiganov and Holl having to live with being heavily rotated within the first couple months of the season.
 
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Mess

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Unless you mean log-jam in a negative as in clogging up with below average level talent then I agree..

Leafs right side defense include Ron Hainsey, Nikita Zaitsev, Connor Carrick, Oleg Ozhiganov and Justin Holl.

That might be among the bottom 10 teams in the NHL in talent, and I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. :sarcasm:
 

WilliamInLondon

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Mar 24, 2016
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Zaitsev looked really good in the WHC. I still have confidence in him and the fact that his contract will look like a steal within a year or two (possibly as early as next season). He needs to be utilized as legit puck moving defenceman who can play on the secondary PP unit. In many ways, I agree with those who suggest floating Gardiner this offseason to see what the Leafs can fetch in return. Take the assets, and explore acquiring #4-6 responsible defensive defencemen.

Here's how I see it breaking down:

Top 3, puck-moving defencemen

Reilly
Zaitsev
Dermott

#4 -6
Hainsey
Rosen
Borgman

Carrick/Holl/Marincin/Ozhiganov as spot assets with various skillsets. But ideally, for next season, to be competitive, Hainsey + 1 or 2 guys who are responsible in their own end to fill the #4-6 spots would really strengthen this team. Gardiner is great (in spite of his gaffes), but if I'm Dubas, I'm neither retaining him for the $6-6.5M AAV that he'll be seeking nor am I losing him for nothing. He could fetch a solid return come draft day and this option should definitely be explored. Add that to the existing assets, and this gives the Leafs a lot of room to maneuver for the trade deadline and beyond.
 

Martin Skoula

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Oct 18, 2017
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We would be ok if we got a couple better versions of Polak. Someone in the pre-decline Orpik mould. Our left side puck movers will look a lot better if they have someone to stop cycles and clear the net for them. The guys on the right just have to be physical with good gap control and a solid first pass, as long as they're not chipping off the boards every time they get the puck, we're good.
 

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