I Still Say Deal Gets Done..

[Chayos]

The players offered a cap almost 20 million higher than the owners wants with no linkage to boot.

It had lickage look at section 7.

The player wanted linkage install for their benifit. Talk about hypocrits.

I hope they all rot in Siberia for 10% of the money, that will show how they won this battle.

Talk about winning the battle only to lose the war!

 

[Roots73]

Unfortunately I don't think there's enough time to make a deal as long as Goodenow is at the helm.

And I highly doubt that the NHLPA has the time to lynch Goodenow and dispose of all his supporters in the executive group in time to save this season either. However, this is definitely something to watch for in the next month or two.

If a coalition of players (i.e Iggy, Pronger and others) can overthrow the current regime by early Summer, they could at least have a CBA ready to go for the Fall. I'm pretty sure that the same group can set up a task force with the NHL on getting the game fixed too with new rule changes.

That would allow for the "new and improved" NHL to reopen on schedule for the start of next year. That's at least what I hope for.
Goodenow vs. Bettman PART II just ain't gonna work.

 

[SENSible1*]

If the union demands a vote on the final league proposal, which they very well might, and votes to accept it before the weekend, there will be a season.

That is the only hope remaining.

 

[snakepliskin]

i just do'nt understand where goodenow thinks he's going with this. there is no way he can get a better deal now, and it is probably going to be drastically worse. Where is his way out of this situation? the owners arn't going to give in after losing a season they will start from absolutely scratch now after paying this price. i bet a lot of players are thinking the same way i am. the old saying a bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush comes to mind. they knew what they had today and what thy could get. goodenow saying that the owners last offer was non-negotialbe at the press conference was hilarious, i think he was making up crap as he went. and he was quick to point out that their cap offer was off the table when i heard him on the radio like he had a choice on it being offered. that should get him back into good standing in the donald fehr fan club again. the players need to kick his butt out to-nite and call the league and tell them 44 mill will be fine. sure going to be a lot better than the 30 mill cap they will have to swallow next season. there is absolutely no way that donald fehr is not in on this. man if it can ever be proved they both would get dis-barred and be staring at jail time

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

I know Bettman is "cancelling" the season as I type this, however I still don't believe that the season is done.

This is simply just another ploy from the League/owners side......they are just showing the NHLPA that they are serious.....the NHLPA will contact Gary and his bum buddies following the NHLPA press conference this afternoon.

They will have a deal done by Thursday night.

Just a hunch, but i still think it's do-able.

Unbiased Canadian

I agree.
Bettman has won too much. But it will all be for naught if this lockout drags into next season.
He can't afford to throw away the gains he's won.
But he knows the union is on the verge of a full fledged collapse. He and his fat cat friends are probably chomping on cigards, slapping eachothers' backs, and waiting for the union to call with the announcement that they've completely folded the tent.

 

[Nielson81]

I agree.
Bettman has won too much. But it will all be for naught if this lockout drags into next season.
He can't afford to throw away the gains he's won.
But he knows the union is on the verge of a full fledged collapse. He and his fat cat friends are probably chomping on cigards, slapping eachothers' backs, and waiting for the union to call with the announcement that they've completely folded the tent.

Finally I've got someone seeing the same way as I do. Thanks newguyone

 

[ChemiseBleuHonnete]

I don't know... I thought that it could have worked this way. But it might be too late.

Obviously, the players aren't going to get a cba that's even remotely as good as the last nhl's offer. How can they not accept it? I'm pretty sure that there's still a little hope that it get settled tommorow if some players push hard for it.

 

[Nash]

It had lickage look at section 7.

The player wanted linkage install for their benifit. Talk about hypocrits.

I hope they all rot in Siberia for 10% of the money, that will show how they won this battle.

Talk about winning the battle only to lose the war!

... so the players are greedy hypocrites when linkage increases their salaries as revenue increases, but the owners aren't greedy when linkage decreases the players salaries when revenues decrease?

 

[snakepliskin]

I agree.
Bettman has won too much. But it will all be for naught if this lockout drags into next season.
He can't afford to throw away the gains he's won.
But he knows the union is on the verge of a full fledged collapse. He and his fat cat friends are probably chomping on cigards, slapping eachothers' backs, and waiting for the union to call with the announcement that they've completely folded the tent.

so goodenow would rather reject any offer and not negotiate and hang on till he gets removed or drops dead before he will agree to any deal other than his own with the owners and bettman?

 

[Digger12]

... so the players are greedy hypocrites when linkage increases their salaries as revenue increases, but the owners aren't greedy when linkage decreases the players salaries when revenues decrease?

No, they're greedy hypocrites because for the last 5 1/2 months they've gone on and on about how they abhor linkage because they can't trust the owners to show the true numbers...yet in their own latest offer they want linkage (or indexing as they laughingly call it) only so long as there's money to be made. It's amusing how they'll suddenly trust the numbers when they like what they say.

Either you take total linkage, or none at all. Half-ass, self serving measures do nothing to further resolution.

 

[kdb209]

... so the players are greedy hypocrites when linkage increases their salaries as revenue increases, but the owners aren't greedy when linkage decreases the players salaries when revenues decrease?

No there not. The owners want linkage that goes both ways. If revenues go up, the cap goes up, and both players and owners benefit. If revenues go down, the cap goes down, and both the players and owners sacrifice.

The players want all the reward of linkage and none of the risk. If revenues go up, thank you, we'll take that, but if revenues go down, not our problem.

And they had the gall to set the baseline for there linkage (sorry "indexing") to be 05-06, when everyone knows revenues will be down. If revenues would have dropped 30% and just recovered to pre-lockout levels, that $49M cap would have been a $64M cap ($70M+ with the 10% exception).

No, that is being greedy pigs. There $49M cap was a sham.

 

[Egil]

The ONE thing that gives me some level of hope is how uniform, and committed the owners apeared to be. Toronto, Philly, etc. didn't fly off the handle. They didn't say they disagreed with Bettman and that they want to take the players last offer, etc. Yet, some of those teams MUST feel that way, yet they are still publicly playing the game.

This leads me to believe that the game is still afoot here, and that one more kick at the can will be tried. A good nights sleep for all parties may just get some people to rethink their current position. It seemed clear to me that Bob and Gary both stayed up all night playing chicken with each other. I have said it before, and will say it again, 2-3 days after the cancelation anouncement is the true end, not the cancelation notice.

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

so goodenow would rather reject any offer and not negotiate and hang on till he gets removed or drops dead before he will agree to any deal other than his own with the owners and bettman?

No. But I think he's boxed in by standard negotiating procedures. He knows that the owners, at this point, have as much to lose as the players. Perhaps more, as some of them could see their entire investment wiped out by a lockout stretching into next season. Even if the NHL starts with scabs next season, you're not going to get much in terms of attendance. At least not at a price that that will pay the banks.
However the players are desperate, as evidenced by the Iginla/Roenick thing.
They've broken ranks.
Goodenow will have to step aside as the players bust the dam.
Bettman knows this.
He's not going to listen to any further offers from Goodenow.
He's going to wait until the players give the owners exactly what they want, whether it's through Goodenow or not.

 

[Captain Conservative]

I know its crazy, but I still think that a deal will be done. I just don't think the players could possibly be so stupid as to let this offer go by. There is no way a rational human being could ever think that the next deal signed will be better than this one for the players.



IT ONLY GOES DOWN FROM HERE!

 

[Nielson81]

I know its crazy, but I still think that a deal will be done. I just don't think the players could possibly be so stupid as to let this offer go by. There is no way a rational human being could ever think that the next deal signed will be better than this one for the players.



IT ONLY GOES DOWN FROM HERE!

That a boy, I'm with ya.

 

[Larry Fisher]

...

Que the CROW eating...hope you boys are hungry!!!

Good prediction Nielson buddy. I was going to post the other day and say I had your back on the idea, but even I was losing hope. Still some of these guys pounced on you out of nowhere for being an optimist and they deserve to bow down and realize its not over til the fat lady sings and Bob Goodenow/Bill Daly's speeches don't count!!!

 

[HF2002]

I was going to post the other day and say I had your back on the idea, but even I was losing hope.

I was thinking the exact same thing when I first saw the thread two days ago all because of Bettman's choice of words about his pride. No one's going to believe us though.

 

[Nielson81]

Well boys....looks like I wasn't so crazy after all.

I accept your apologies, nice to see I'm not crazy after all.

Here's to The Great One, #99, saving the NHL again.

Unbiased Canadian

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

Well boys....looks like I wasn't so crazy after all.

I accept your apologies, nice to see I'm not crazy after all.

Here's to The Great One, #99, saving the NHL again.

Unbiased Canadian

I'm tired of the Gretzky and Lemiuex glorification.

This belongs to the players who were willing to give back 25 percent of their paychecks and agree to a luxury tax that will prevent them from ever getting that money back.
The rich owners refused a luxury tax to help the small teams.
Teams like Chicago and Boston have no interest in putting together a product to attract fans.
Morons like Karmanos move teams to non-existent markets, and then inflate salaries all over the league with ridiculous RFA offers, and then whine that costs exceed revenues.

The players get the kudos here.

After all the abuse they've taken, they're the only ones giving up anything to get the game back on the ice.

But I won't expect anything from about 75 percent of the people on this board.

 

[Nielson81]

I'm tired of the Gretzky and Lemiuex glorification.

This belongs to the players who were willing to give back 25 percent of their paychecks and agree to a luxury tax that will prevent them from ever getting that money back.
The rich owners refused a luxury tax to help the small teams.
Teams like Chicago and Boston have no interest in putting together a product to attract fans.
Morons like Karmanos move teams to non-existent markets, and then inflate salaries all over the league with ridiculous RFA offers, and then whine that costs exceed revenues.

The players get the kudos here.

After all the abuse they've taken, they're the only ones giving up anything to get the game back on the ice.

But I won't expect anything from about 75 percent of the people on this board.

Hey man,

I agree with everything you say. The players deserve the credit...they are doing the OWNERS a huge favour.

If my boss asked me to take a 24% roll back in salaries I'd tell him where to stick it.

Good points newsgyuone.

 

[WhalerBoy]

I'm tired of the Gretzky and Lemiuex glorification.

This belongs to the players who were willing to give back 25 percent of their paychecks and agree to a luxury tax that will prevent them from ever getting that money back.
The rich owners refused a luxury tax to help the small teams.
Teams like Chicago and Boston have no interest in putting together a product to attract fans.
Morons like Karmanos move teams to non-existent markets, and then inflate salaries all over the league with ridiculous RFA offers, and then whine that costs exceed revenues.

The players get the kudos here.

After all the abuse they've taken, they're the only ones giving up anything to get the game back on the ice.

But I won't expect anything from about 75 percent of the people on this board.

I'll give them credit for this lockout ending if you can admit to me that in 1994 you gave the owners ALL the credit for crumbling in January.

I fail to see how giving in after months of fighting it deserves kudos. I dont think anyone deserves kudos for anything. One greedy group outwaited another greedy group.

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

I'll give them credit for this lockout ending if you can admit to me that in 1994 you gave the owners ALL the credit for crumbling in January.

I fail to see how giving in after months of fighting it deserves kudos. I dont think anyone deserves kudos for anything. One greedy group outwaited another greedy group.

ANd one group decided it wasn't worth it to wait until the lockout destroyed hockey.
The other was willing to do so.

We were *this* close to, potentially, the end of the NHL.

 

[WhalerBoy]

ANd one group decided it wasn't worth it to wait until the lockout destroyed hockey.
The other was willing to do so.

We were *this* close to, potentially, the end of the NHL.

So your thinking that the players all sat there and said, "man, i am worried about the NHL. I think this lockout is going to destroy the NHL (the NHL is not hockey, its just a league). We cant let this happen, for the good of the game, I have to take another hit to my salary to do whats right"

I think your making a HUGE assumption. I think if they caved, they did so because they realized they were losing a lot of money by sitting at home, and that there was no way any subsequent deals would get any better.

Keep in mind, so far the rumours are giving credit to guys like Gretzky, Lemieux, Snider....ownership guys. And to PA and players too, I will grant you. BUT its not as one sided as you portray.

I respect your viewpoint (pro-PA) in that your expressing it in a place that is strongly against it, but I would hope you not be as subjective as you accused "75% of this board" as being. I dont blame the players for all of the lockout or all of the duration, but I certainly wont give them credit for what should happen tommorow.

 

[ResidentAlien*]

So your thinking that the players all sat there and said, "man, i am worried about the NHL. I think this lockout is going to destroy the NHL (the NHL is not hockey, its just a league). We cant let this happen, for the good of the game, I have to take another hit to my salary to do whats right"

I think your making a HUGE assumption. I think if they caved, they did so because they realized they were losing a lot of money by sitting at home, and that there was no way any subsequent deals would get any better.

Keep in mind, so far the rumours are giving credit to guys like Gretzky, Lemieux, Snider....ownership guys. And to PA and players too, I will grant you. BUT its not as one sided as you portray.

I respect your viewpoint (pro-PA) in that your expressing it in a place that is strongly against it, but I would hope you not be as subjective as you accused "75% of this board" as being. I dont blame the players for all of the lockout or all of the duration, but I certainly wont give them credit for what should happen tommorow.

You make some good points, and miss it on a few too IMO.
I don't think you can say it's just a league. In many ways the NHL is hockey, at the very least it is the best league in the world, that can't be argued. As far as Gretzky and Lemieux got, yes they are ownership guys but they were 99 & 66 originally.
Players who love the game, players who make the game, the game that created the NHL.

 

[Lou is God]

Hey man,

I agree with everything you say. The players deserve the credit...they are doing the OWNERS a huge favour.

If my boss asked me to take a 24% roll back in salaries I'd tell him where to stick it.

Good points newsgyuone.

Congrats dude, you had the balls to stick your neck out and go with your gut, big time kudos!