Prospect Info: Hurricanes Prospect Info and Discussion - Part VI

[Vagrant]

my theory on darling is that he's being evaluated as a buyout candidate in these lame duck games. the pretense of having playoff hopes is really more smoke. i think the writing on the wall when florida started to heat up was too obvious to ignore. the larger agenda would dictate that if he can't show us *anything* in these remaining games, he's going to be bought out. as we'd all likely guess, that's a painful financial reality and one that the organization doesn't want to have to see come to fruition. so they're doing everything in their power to provide him an opportunity to play his way out of this funk so they can at least say their due diligence was completed. it's obviously not going the way we hoped. it's equally pointless to ride cam ward into the dirt especially if you have plans to retain his services next season. i don't think peters could look into a camera and say darling gives us the best chance to win games, but sometimes winning games today isn't as important as determining who can help us moving forward. this is a grand scale embarrassment and a costly one at that.

 

[GoldiFox]

my theory on darling is that he's being evaluated as a buyout candidate in these lame duck games. the pretense of having playoff hopes is really more smoke. i think the writing on the wall when florida started to heat up was too obvious to ignore. the larger agenda would dictate that if he can't show us *anything* in these remaining games, he's going to be bought out. as we'd all likely guess, that's a painful financial reality and one that the organization doesn't want to have to see come to fruition. so they're doing everything in their power to provide him an opportunity to play his way out of this funk so they can at least say their due diligence was completed. it's obviously not going the way we hoped. it's equally pointless to ride cam ward into the dirt especially if you have plans to retain his services next season. i don't think peters could look into a camera and say darling gives us the best chance to win games, but sometimes winning games today isn't as important as determining who can help us moving forward. this is a grand scale embarrassment and a costly one at that.

Agreed 100%. Evaluating if there is absolutely any salvage value in Darling over these last dozen throwaway games is exactly the type of move we should expect Dundon to make. It is possible, although unlikely, that he puts together a stretch where he looks decent enough to be dealt at 50% retention. Just due diligence.

Worst case the Canes fail hard and let NYR/NYI/CHI pass them. Sitting at #8 pick over #11 pick doubles their Draft Lottery odds and might give them the first swing at 2nd-tier forwards (Wahlstrom, Farabee, Veleno, Lunderstrom) rather than last.

 

[geehaad]

You can either take Vagrant's explanation of what's going on with Darling or you can take BBA's on what is going on with Nordstrom/Ryan, but you can't subscribe to both. Either they know they're out of it and are trying out players or they are still fighting for the playoffs and are sticking with the knowns.

I think Peters will fight for a win in Game #82 even if they lose every game between now and then, and he will set his lineup accordingly. With no GM to tell him to do otherwise, we're stuck with that "wisdom".

 

[Tryamw]

So anyway I don't get to see the Checkers much but can they complete a pass and not fumble the puck? I know Ned's can score.

 

[geehaad]

What's most aggravating to me is Nordstrom vs Foegele non-decision. While you can reason that Zykov would need to fill a top-9 spot and play on the PP, and maybe the coach is hesitant to clear such a place, clearly Foegele can play Nordstrom's position(s) in the lineup. Even if Foegele doesn't provide a measurable boost to the NHL team, the NHL team would provide a boost to Foegele. He's performing admirably in the AHL, yet he's not even getting a whiff of his NHL cookie.

f*** Peters, man.

 

[tarheelhockey]

What's most aggravating to me is Nordstrom vs Foegele non-decision. While you can reason that Zykov would need to fill a top-9 spot and play on the PP, and maybe the coach is hesitant to clear such a place, clearly Foegele can play Nordstrom's position(s) in the lineup. Even if Foegele doesn't provide a measurable boost to the NHL team, the NHL team would provide a boost to Foegele. He's performing admirably in the AHL, yet he's not even getting a whiff of his NHL cookie.

**** Peters, man.

It's also entirely possible that they're waiting for the 9-game end of season stretch before making this sort of move. Our playoff hopes were bound to be defined between games 68 and 73, and last night was indeed a pivotal turn. 4 games from now, the playoff situation will likely be a closed subject, so they will be in a much better position to call guys up in a risk-free environment where they're not counting games on an ELC.

If we're sitting here on the 22nd (Coyotes game) having the same conversation, I won't get it. But for now I can see how they're bringing guys up for light touches as a transition, and probably evaluating in practice to see who gets a 9-game tryout.

 

[Chan790]

You can either take Vagrant's explanation of what's going on with Darling or you can take BBA's on what is going on with Nordstrom/Ryan, but you can't subscribe to both. Either they know they're out of it and are trying out players or they are still fighting for the playoffs and are sticking with the knowns.

I think Peters will fight for a win in Game #82 even if they lose every game between now and then, and he will set his lineup accordingly. With no GM to tell him to do otherwise, we're stuck with that "wisdom".

I don't think it's quite so black-and-white. It's not contradictory to do both as long as you're clear on objectives throughout the organization.

You play Darling in order to salvage and assess what you can in terms of turnaround, trade or buyout.

You play for the playoffs in front of Darling until the minute you're eliminated mathematically in order to instill a never-say-die ethos as part of a winning culture the Canes need to cultivate.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Maybe it will be a few games before being mathematically eliminated, but for all practical purposes, missing the playoffs is pretty much a done deal right now. The team and the coaches know it no matter what they say to the public. Canes are 7-8 points back with 13 games left and a Florida team with 2 games in hand ahead of them. If we used that chart that MinJaBen (I think) shared in the GDT, they'd have to get to 92 points just to have basically a 50/50 chance. This team isn't winning basically 11 our of 13 remaining games to get to 93 points.

Maybe the fat lady hasn't yet sung, but she's fully warmed up and about to step on stage.

That doesn't mean the team won't still give it their all, as the should when there is still a chance, but that's easier said then done.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Maybe it will be a few games before being mathematically eliminated, but for all practical purposes, missing the playoffs is pretty much a done deal right now. The team and the coaches know it no matter what they say to the public. Canes are 7-8 points back with 13 games left and a Florida team with 2 games in hand ahead of them. If we used that chart that MinJaBen (I think) shared in the GDT, they'd have to get to 92 points just to have basically a 50/50 chance. This team isn't winning basically 11 our of 13 remaining games to get to 93 points.

Maybe the fat lady hasn't yet sung, but she's fully warmed up and about to step on stage.

That doesn't mean the team won't still give it their all, as the should when there is still a chance, but that's easier said then done.

Last night was seriously a back breaker. Both from the standpoint of missing 2 points they HAD to have, and also from a momentum standpoint. Can you imagine losing that game in that fashion at MSG, then jumping on a plane and playing the Bruins in front of a 50% Bruins "home" crowd the next night? What might have been a rallying point for a late surge is now a "let's just get this over with" kind of game. Which means they'll likely get massacred, and at that point you can pretty much call it finished and start making plans for the young guys to get a real look.

 

[Bub]

It's also entirely possible that they're waiting for the 9-game end of season stretch before making this sort of move. Our playoff hopes were bound to be defined between games 68 and 73, and last night was indeed a pivotal turn. 4 games from now, the playoff situation will likely be a closed subject, so they will be in a much better position to call guys up in a risk-free environment where they're not counting games on an ELC.

If we're sitting here on the 22nd (Coyotes game) having the same conversation, I won't get it. But for now I can see how they're bringing guys up for light touches as a transition, and probably evaluating in practice to see who gets a 9-game tryout.

And, if they're serious about wanting to get these guys some AHL-level playoff experience, you give them a few more games to definitively nail down the playoff spot. Bring them up here afterwards for some eval time, then right back to the A for the playoffs.

Why is it tho that I can't shake this nagging feeling that we're going to see, oh, one prospect play just a handful of games at the end of the season. Or a "two games of Zykov, then two games of McLovin, then two games of..." situation, where PDG gets swapped out for the prospect-of-the-day.

 

[DaveG]

And, if they're serious about wanting to get these guys some AHL-level playoff experience, you give them a few more games to definitively nail down the playoff spot. Bring them up here afterwards for some eval time, then right back to the A for the playoffs.

Why is it tho that I can't shake this nagging feeling that we're going to see, oh, one prospect play just a handful of games at the end of the season. Or a "two games of Zykov, then two games of McLovin, then two games of..." situation, where PDG gets swapped out for the prospect-of-the-day.

Sadly this is the most likely case. Bill's not going to sit Ryan, Nordy, and Stempniak (even though he should have been sat by every metric, and frankly traded for whatever we could have gotten for him at the deadline and with the other two) all for an extended period. We should be giving the kids (hell a full on kid line) a shot on at least the 3rd line once the Checkers nail down that playoff spot, but it's not going to happen.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Why is it tho that I can't shake this nagging feeling that we're going to see, oh, one prospect play just a handful of games at the end of the season. Or a "two games of Zykov, then two games of McLovin, then two games of..." situation, where PDG gets swapped out for the prospect-of-the-day.

I bet that's what happens, but there might be some logic to it.

Checkers are barely holding onto a playoff spot and I'm sure the team wants them to make it. Canes have 13 games left, but the Checkers have games the same night as 7 of those games. So that leaves only 6 games where the Checkers are off when the Canes play.

A couple of games / prospect is probably right.

 

[AD Skinner]

I can't decide if everyone in charge of this organization are idiots or if they're just convinced we all are. The biggest roster move we saw all year was playing lindholm at center sometimes. On a year when they actually had a shot at the playoffs and where they sent out a letter to season ticket holders that that was the goal! How can anybody in the locker room feel good about playing for this team?

Edit because I have more rant in me: and this is the second time in 4 years they've had a shot at the playoffs and the organization gives the zero vote of confidence. I don't want to hash over the Eric Staal trade forever but remember the stories about Jordan needing a sit down with Francis after that? Not because it was his brother but because they gave up on the players. What a slap in the face. At least then the idea was they needed to restock the pipeline, they'll never have an asset like this to trade again, blah blah blah. And now we're right on the bubble again despite the massive misfire in paying some chucklehead who lucked into a few wins behind the Chicago dynasty team more than most of the teams' actual contributors put together, and a stockpile of assets to trade and cap room to do it and nothing to really sell, and the management is like nah y'all aren't really worth the headache of trying to help. Not even worth calling up a younger player that might help-we don't want them to learn any of you guys' loser habits. I mean really how do they have any f***ing pride putting on their jersey?

 

[Svechhammer]

I loled

I'm sorry, but what a complete f'n waste of an opportunity. If you're going to be calling players up from Charlotte that you think fit into the long term plans of the NHL level, play them when they are here. Sitting him in the GM box as a healthy scratch during his one game callup does absolutely nothing to let us know about how prepared he is for this level, or how his play translates here. Abso-f'ing-lootely nothing.

And you can say we know what we have in him and his game isn't changing and all that, but he's got 48 points on the season in Charlotte, why not give him the shot. We were starting Scott Darling, we already gave up on the game. There was nothing to lose by playing him, and we couldn't be bothered to do that.

This was a perfect opportunity to give him 4th line minutes to see what he's got and if his game can better translate. And now its wasted. And when we call someone else up, we're bound to waste that opportunity, too... because its what Bill Peters does.

 

[GoldiFox]

Peters thinks that there is nobody on Charlotte that is better than a “4A” player. He doesn’t believe there is one guy there that is better than Stempniak, PDG or Nordstrom (whose PK ability Peters treasures) right now. Wallmark’s lack of success has solidified that notion to him.

He may be right, but it’s impossible to say without giving them a chance.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Why is it tho that I can't shake this nagging feeling that we're going to see, oh, one prospect play just a handful of games at the end of the season. Or a "two games of Zykov, then two games of McLovin, then two games of..." situation, where PDG gets swapped out for the prospect-of-the-day.

If it's the former, that's a real problem. Barring some fluke circumstance, there's no reason to rob those guys of their well earned tryouts after a great Checkers season and a bad Canes season.

The latter might be a possibility, though. We're probably not going to have games with 3 or 4 AHL players in the lineup, so as not to cripple both our NHL and AHL teams at the same time. So guys are going to have to cycle through in some fashion. It might very well be one of them for 2 games, then evaluate and decide whether he's earned a longer look.

 

[Breakdowns]

I'm sorry, but what a complete f'n waste of an opportunity. If you're going to be calling players up from Charlotte that you think fit into the long term plans of the NHL level, play them when they are here. Sitting him in the GM box as a healthy scratch during his one game callup does absolutely nothing to let us know about how prepared he is for this level, or how his play translates here. Abso-f'ing-lootely nothing.

And you can say we know what we have in him and his game isn't changing and all that, but he's got 48 points on the season in Charlotte, why not give him the shot. We were starting Scott Darling, we already gave up on the game. There was nothing to lose by playing him, and we couldn't be bothered to do that.

This was a perfect opportunity to give him 4th line minutes to see what he's got and if his game can better translate. And now its wasted. And when we call someone else up, we're bound to waste that opportunity, too... because its what Bill Peters does.

He was sent back down before the game or just when game started, so technically he was not sitting in GM box as a call-up

 

[tarheelhockey]

I'm sorry, but what a complete f'n waste of an opportunity. If you're going to be calling players up from Charlotte that you think fit into the long term plans of the NHL level, play them when they are here. Sitting him in the GM box as a healthy scratch during his one game callup does absolutely nothing to let us know about how prepared he is for this level, or how his play translates here. Abso-f'ing-lootely nothing.

I don't entirely agree with that. You can learn how a player fits with the team just by having him in practice. That gives you a pretty good sense of whether he has the extra step, the puck handling, the hockey sense to be anything other than a plug. And you can get a sense of his chemistry with the guys he'd most likely be playing with, to see whether he can keep up with their pace. If he's not looking great in that environment, there's not a whole lot to be gained from throwing him out there in a game and watching him struggle in front of the whole world.

And you can say we know what we have in him and his game isn't changing and all that, but he's got 48 points on the season in Charlotte, why not give him the shot. We were starting Scott Darling, we already gave up on the game. There was nothing to lose by playing him, and we couldn't be bothered to do that.

Not sure I'd say they gave up the game by starting Darling. He definitely did cost them the game, but I doubt that was the intent behind putting him in net.

This kind of goes back to the thing about how at this point, Darling has to be more than just a coach's choice. He's an issue for the entire organization right now, in the sense that we're going to end up spending a lot of resources just to move on from him to the next guy. I'd have to think that his persistent playing time is an organizational decision. Whether that's based on trying to get Darling out of his funk, trying to protect Ward from injury or over-play, or some other factor that we're not seeing right now, I don't know. But from a coaching standpoint, this is like an NFL coach starting his third-string QB over and over. It's not a rational choice and I don't think it's the kind of thing a coach would even try to get away with unless he was operating in coordination with the front office and ownership.

 

[Lempo]

It's also entirely possible that they're waiting for the 9-game end of season stretch before making this sort of move. Our playoff hopes were bound to be defined between games 68 and 73, and last night was indeed a pivotal turn. 4 games from now, the playoff situation will likely be a closed subject, so they will be in a much better position to call guys up in a risk-free environment where they're not counting games on an ELC.

If we're sitting here on the 22nd (Coyotes game) having the same conversation, I won't get it. But for now I can see how they're bringing guys up for light touches as a transition, and probably evaluating in practice to see who gets a 9-game tryout.

Necas, Gauthier, Bean and Kuokkanen are the only Slide Eligibles though. Unless they are being cheap with the Games Played bonuses, which of course is a possibility when some guys would double their annual AHL pay by staying up for 10.

 

[Bub]

If it's the former, that's a real problem. Barring some fluke circumstance, there's no reason to rob those guys of their well earned tryouts after a great Checkers season and a bad Canes season.

Can't decide if I need to be

or

for the next month.

 

[MinJaBen]

If this is indicative of his play, I can see his shooting percentage being somewhat sustainable.

 

[Novacane]

That defense though

 

[MinJaBen]

That defense though

Yeah, not good and he will face much better. But we can't blame him for knowing how to exploit it.

 

[My Special Purpose]

If this is indicative of his play, I can see his shooting percentage being somewhat sustainable.

That defense though

Yeah, not good and he will face much better. But we can't blame him for knowing how to exploit it.

Watch this about five or six times and focus on the Pens player No. 9.

 

[bleedgreen]

Wallmark is the center who sets him up for all these easy goals. They need to be given a chance together. They have chemistry.