Prospect Info: Hurricanes Prospect Info and Discussion - Part VI

[Breakdowns]

I'm sorry, but what the hell is even the point of jerking around Zykov like this, even if it's just paperwork (especially if it's just paperwork)

I loled

 

[A Star is Burns]

I don't know who's in charge of these moves now, but **** em. Maybe it's all the AGM's and Waddell making whatever move they personally want. Olczyk called him up, and Velucci was like, you can't mess with a player I need on the Checkers, I'll just reassign him.

 

[AD Skinner]

So is this openly tanking? Having players that can score but not playing them?

I have a sneaking suspicion that someone somewheres plan is to make sure Charlotte is successful this year so that they can bring in a group of players used to winning together all to Raleigh around the same time. I see the logic there as all we've got here are losers. But that's a very frustrating thing to watch

 

[My Special Purpose]

I wonder if we're going to get a bad reputation among young players. Seriously, it's that bad.

 

[A Star is Burns]

No, I'm sure they love being jerked around and not being rewarded for great seasons. They understand never ending patience. The new GM might need to mend some fences.

 

[Novacane]

That one game winning streak really tells you THIS is the roster to stick with. Brilliant logic, Bill

 

[AD Skinner]

Bill peters is a joke

 

[Tryamw]

That one game winning streak really tells you THIS is the roster to stick with. Brilliant logic, Bill

We're the Greatest!. No reason to get a GOAL scorer on the ice we get so many this year.

 

[MinJaBen]

Bill peters is a joke

Unfortunately, he’s a joke Dundon likes to hear over and over and over and...

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I wonder if we're going to get a bad reputation among young players. Seriously, it's that bad.

no it's not. don't overreact

 

[NotOpie]

no it's not. don't overreact

Wait a minute....it's what we do here.

 

[dukebluedynasty]

I’m guessing they want to change the culture of complacency before bringing any of the kids up

 

[My Special Purpose]

I’m guessing they want to change the culture of complacency before bringing any of the kids up

They'd first have to acknowledge there's a culture of complacency. But they still think they can make the playoffs. And they still think playing Stempniak over Zykov, and Nordstrom over Foegele, and Ryan over Wallmark, and Darling over a shooter-tutor, gives them a better chance to make the playoffs. It makes *zero* sense. It's really like watching a train wreck in slow motion. Nobody is willing to do anything to fix it.

 

[The Faulker 27]

They'd first have to acknowledge there's a culture of complacency. But they still think they can make the playoffs. And they still think playing Stempniak over Zykov, and Nordstrom over Foegele, and Ryan over Wallmark, and Darling over a shooter-tutor, gives them a better chance to make the playoffs. It makes *zero* sense. It's really like watching a train wreck in slow motion. Nobody is willing to do anything to fix it.

The GM just got canned. That's a big deal. Things are gonna change. Just not overnight.

 

[Vagrant]

the thing that's concerning to me and that i addressed earlier in the year is that zykov's shot totals haven't changed, only his success rate. if you look at his season this year and last year and normalize the shooting percentage at 15%, which would still be generous, you're looking at approximately the same season. shots per game is sometimes eerily accurate as a projection and usually the players that have defeated the league are sitting at 2.5 to 3 shots per game. zykov isn't in that neighborhood. he deserves a merit call up and to actually get to play, but it's not at the point where there's anything to be overly concerned about in my opinion. wallmark has outperformed zykov in charlotte by a country mile and he's still looking like a bit of a tweener. the production is exciting, but a guy with a 30% shooting percentage on any team at any level isn't profiling accurately to their skill.

 

[AD Skinner]

Very good points. Zykov may never amount to much in the NHL and obviously high scoring in the A isn't a predictor of high scoring at the next level. In my head it's like a college football team being undefeated 10 games in but not getting ranked highly because they're not a name school or their schedule is considered too easy. They can only beat the teams they play, they don't set their schedule. Likewise Zykov can only outscore his peers at this point- he can't stand out any more than he has. And it's not like he went on a crazy hot streak to get there, he's been at the top pretty much all season long. I'm not saying he needs to be given a one way deal and penciled onto the first line. I am saying he's earned a look and jerking him around like they did is unnecessary, especially considering the Russian factor (not that I think Russians are any different from any other nationality, but if he can make comparable money in a more comfortable situation and feel more respected back home, it's understandable that someone may make that decision). The statement that this team is making in their personnel decisions, Francis or no, is that they don't want to win.

 

[Vagrant]

Very good points. Zykov may never amount to much in the NHL and obviously high scoring in the A isn't a predictor of high scoring at the next level. In my head it's like a college football team being undefeated 10 games in but not getting ranked highly because they're not a name school or their schedule is considered too easy. They can only beat the teams they play, they don't set their schedule. Likewise Zykov can only outscore his peers at this point- he can't stand out any more than he has. And it's not like he went on a crazy hot streak to get there, he's been at the top pretty much all season long. I'm not saying he needs to be given a one way deal and penciled onto the first line. I am saying he's earned a look and jerking him around like they did is unnecessary, especially considering the Russian factor (not that I think Russians are any different from any other nationality, but if he can make comparable money in a more comfortable situation and feel more respected back home, it's understandable that someone may make that decision). The statement that this team is making in their personnel decisions, Francis or no, is that they don't want to win.

it's an interesting dynamic for sure. not exactly certain how to feel on the topic. while players like stempniak and nordstrom haven't been up to snuff this season, they've historically been contributors in some capacity. they have a reliable role and its really comfortable for a coach to fall back on players they know and can rely upon for consistency in what they bring. this isn't an avocation for either player, who we should be actively trying to upgrade upon in the offseason, but with peters saying he believes we're in the thick of a playoff race he's going to approach these games with known quantities as opposed to players who are really green to the nhl game. again, this isn't to be misconstrued as support for these players but rather an explanation as to why it seems like we're reticent to move forward with the youth movement. to me, that would probably constitute a bigger white flag wave to deactivate a primary penalty killer and a 35 year old veteran likely in his last professional season. the time is coming rapidly where the math is going to be overwhelming and we're going to take a look at these guys again. some of them will likely provide some jump and provide us some hope, but it's so damn hard to isolate which of those guys it will be. foegele, zykov, and kuokkanen all look like they could be knocking on the door. wallmark has had some shots, but he could stand a more earnest tryout too despite my being underwhelmed with early indications.

the truth is that fans have already given up. we're ready for the next phase of accepting the death of the playoff dream and trotting the young guns out so we can see if there's anything interesting about them. mostly because they're just not the players we've seen fail all season and less because there's any legitimate basis to believe they will be undeniably better than the players they'd supplant in the lineup. there aren't really any guys down there that are at the point in their development where more time in the ahl is harmful, so it's tough to deviate from the approach of keeping charlotte somewhat together so they can finish what they started as opposed to being a slight uptick on the nordstrom class. i want to see foegele, zykov, and kuokkanen up here as much as the next guy, but i also wanted to see charlotte playing at full capacity heading into the postseason. it's a tough balance to determine what is better long term. i tend to favor allowing those players to develop all the confidence they can when they're running hot and our chances in the nhl are so relatively slim.

 

[My Special Purpose]

it's an interesting dynamic for sure. not exactly certain how to feel on the topic. while players like stempniak and nordstrom haven't been up to snuff this season, they've historically been contributors in some capacity. they have a reliable role and its really comfortable for a coach to fall back on players they know and can rely upon for consistency in what they bring. this isn't an avocation for either player, who we should be actively trying to upgrade upon in the offseason, but with peters saying he believes we're in the thick of a playoff race he's going to approach these games with known quantities as opposed to players who are really green to the nhl game. again, this isn't to be misconstrued as support for these players but rather an explanation as to why it seems like we're reticent to move forward with the youth movement. to me, that would probably constitute a bigger white flag wave to deactivate a primary penalty killer and a 35 year old veteran likely in his last professional season. the time is coming rapidly where the math is going to be overwhelming and we're going to take a look at these guys again. some of them will likely provide some jump and provide us some hope, but it's so damn hard to isolate which of those guys it will be. foegele, zykov, and kuokkanen all look like they could be knocking on the door. wallmark has had some shots, but he could stand a more earnest tryout too despite my being underwhelmed with early indications.

the truth is that fans have already given up. we're ready for the next phase of accepting the death of the playoff dream and trotting the young guns out so we can see if there's anything interesting about them. mostly because they're just not the players we've seen fail all season and less because there's any legitimate basis to believe they will be undeniably better than the players they'd supplant in the lineup. there aren't really any guys down there that are at the point in their development where more time in the ahl is harmful, so it's tough to deviate from the approach of keeping charlotte somewhat together so they can finish what they started as opposed to being a slight uptick on the nordstrom class. i want to see foegele, zykov, and kuokkanen up here as much as the next guy, but i also wanted to see charlotte playing at full capacity heading into the postseason. it's a tough balance to determine what is better long term. i tend to favor allowing those players to develop all the confidence they can when they're running hot and our chances in the nhl are so relatively slim.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. And I also see the organizational dilemma you described. And I agree it's too late to do anything about anything at this point, so why not leave it as it is and allow the guys in Charlotte to finish what they started.

What I don't get is why we weren't more proactive earlier in the season. It's been no secret that Nordstrom is quite possibly the worst regular player in the NHL. Stempniak and DiGiuseppe aren't much better. And that doesn't even count Kruger and Jooris, who were also among the worst players in the league by just about any statistical measure, by the time we gave up on them. And even *after* giving up on them, it's not like we tried anyone in their place. We gave these guys 65 games to figure it out, when 30-35 would have been more than fair.

And that doesn't even begin to address the Darling situation. To just keep pretending that he's not the worst goalie in the league and not address the situation is just madness. And yeah, I know the GM got fired, but the coach played him in a must-win game *last night*. What is wrong with these people? How can you not *try* to send him to Charlotte for a few games to try to get his head straight? How can you be so oblivious to the damage you're doing to your team, and your fans?

It's the mindset I'm worried about, that guys get full seasons to sort themselves out. They shouldn't. They *can't*. This is the NHL. Be ready to play or be replaced. The best players are going to play.

Everywhere but here.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I think it has to do with most coaches being adverse to taking risks. They are more likely to stick with the devil they know than the devil they don't. Guys like Ryan and Nordstrom are almost safety blankets for Peters because he knows exactly what to expect from them (even if it's not good), similar to how guys like LaRose and Dwyer were for past coaches. Pretty much every team's fans complain about this. Ranger's fans complained about Marc Staal and Tanner Glass for years. Pens fans complained about Craig Adams and Chris Kunitz regularly. Leafs fans complaining about Bozak and Polak. The list goes on.

I'm not saying it's right, but it's pretty common. Peter's has always seemed like that type of coach to me. He'd much rather play a guy that hustles than a guy that maybe doesn't hustle as much, but is a much better player. Guys like Ryan and Nordstrom are right in his wheelhouse unfortunately.

Darling though I have no explanation for.

 

[GoldiFox]

Didn't last night just amount to a ~$10,000 roster bonus for Zykov? Wish they would play him but he can't be too upset about that.

Of 330 forwards who have played over 500 5v5 minutes this year, Nordstrom has the dead-last P/60 of 0.22. The #329 player is Markus Granlund with 0.48 P/60. The #327 player is Jordan Nolan with 0.65 P/60.

That is to say, that the 4th worst regular offensive forward in the entire NHL is three times better than Nordstrom offensively. A truly impressive level of terrible.

To put it in a Canes-historical context. Since 2014-15 the closest player to Nordstrom's current 0.22 P/60 (> 500 minutes played) is Nathan Gerbe in 2015-16 who had a 0.57 P/60. Last year Jay McClement had a 0.70 P/60. He has been a black hole of offense.

Someone else said it of Kruger when he was sent down and it is also true of Nordstrom. Ensuring that both teams don't score is not a role in today's NHL. Get that trash off our team.

 

[My Special Purpose]

Pretty much every team's fans complain about this. Ranger's fans complained about Marc Staal and Tanner Glass for years. Pens fans complained about Craig Adams and Chris Kunitz regularly. Leafs fans complaining about Bozak and Polak. The list goes on.

Again, I get it, and I appreciate you trying to rationalize what's going on. But those teams were/are winning. Leafs fans can complain about Bozak and Polak all they want, but in the end, they don't matter. The Leafs are winning in spite of them. Ditto the Pens with Adams and Kunitz. And up until this year, the Rangers were regular playoff contenders.

The issue here is that none of it is working. The PK is poor, but there's Nordstrom every time. We're awful in OT, but there's Ryan every time.

Look, I know we can't have 23 all-stars. There are always going to be holes in any lineup. The key is whether you can win with this lineup. We're not winning. We're not successful. Try something different.

 

[bleedgreen]

We're not gonna roll the kids out until we've basically been eliminated. That's the way it always goes, no? I don't think Zykov will change much, and he'll play if someone gets hurt. He hasn't changed his game much, as Vagrant noted. He's a good cycler and net front guy in the AHL, I agree it's nothing to get that frustrated over. We'll see him soon enough the way this is going.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Again, I get it, and I appreciate you trying to rationalize what's going on. But those teams were/are winning. Leafs fans can complain about Bozak and Polak all they want, but in the end, they don't matter. The Leafs are winning in spite of them. Ditto the Pens with Adams and Kunitz. And up until this year, the Rangers were regular playoff contenders.

I get that, but the Leafs fans complained about those two when the team stunk too, not just this past 1.5 seasons. It happens with bad teams as well as good teams, I just used examples of teams I'm more familiar with and watch more. I think it's the nature of most coaches to be more risk adverse.

The issue here is that none of it is working. The PK is poor, but there's Nordstrom every time. We're awful in OT, but there's Ryan every time.

Look, I know we can't have 23 all-stars. There are always going to be holes in any lineup. The key is whether you can win with this lineup. We're not winning. We're not successful. Try something different.

I'm not disagreeing with that at all. I'd prefer not to see Nordstrom, Ryan, etc.. on the ice again. I was just saying it's not that uncommon for coaches to rely on sub-par players who they are more comfortable with, for whatever reason. Doesn't make it right, just that I see it happen often.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

We're not gonna roll the kids out until we've basically been eliminated.

After last night, I would think the writing is on the wall. They are basically eliminated.

 

[MinJaBen]

We're not gonna roll the kids out until we've basically been eliminated.

We were "eliminated" by a lack of action in early January. To watch one fourth of your forwards do nothing productive and to watch your starting goalie unlearn his position on a nightly basis without making any moves to fix or reduce the impact of those two things eliminated them from the playoffs. The only reason it is apparent now and not as obvious then is the fact a bunch of Metro teams and all but three of the Atlantic decided to suck right along with us. If this had been any other year, we'd have known the truth way before now.