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Olympics: How will Chinese NT look in 2022?

Discussion in 'International Tournaments' started by GX, Jun 28, 2016.

  1. GX

    GX Registered User

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    So, how many NA-born players will Chinese NT feature in Beijing Olympics in 2022?

    They have entered a team in KHL for next season, which, judging by the tactics of Kazakhstan and Belarus, includes contracting decent NA players to long-term deals so that they could acquire Chinese nationality in time for the Olympics. Sounds more than realistic for me. :)

    Should or shouldn't IIHF work on tougher regulation for naturalisation of players? Obviously, it isn't a matter that concerns the Top 6 nations much, but from the perspective of the following 6 nations this has always seemed more than desperate and in fact crippling for international hockey.
     
  2. JackSlater

    JackSlater Registered User

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    Would KHL players who play on the Chinese KHL team even have enough time in China to be eligible to play for the Chinese national team? The Olympic tournament is less than two years away.

    As for naturalization rules, they should be much tougher. There is no point to having international competition if a bunch of players from different countries are playing for a national team.
     
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  3. GX

    GX Registered User

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    Chinese won't be a part of 2018 Olympics as the final qualification round for it takes place in September, and they haven't made it that far. Yet, it might indeed be so that they are well interested and ready to join the KHL, as their NT will have a guaranteed spot at the 2022 Olympics in China, similarly like South Korea is playing in 2018.
     
  4. Uncle Rotter

    Uncle Rotter Registered User

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    As many as they can stuff in there.
     
  5. JackSlater

    JackSlater Registered User

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    Complete mistake on my part (2018 vs 2022). Probably a decent number of the KHL players will find themselves on the Chinese national team then.
     
  6. Xokkeu

    Xokkeu Registered User

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    The whole team will speak English or Russian as a first language. And they'll be awful.
     
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  7. Milos Krasic

    Milos Krasic Ballin' in Poland

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    Zach Yuen (2011 Winnipeg 4th Rounder) signed with Red Star Kunlun today. Only an ECHL player, but one has to think they are planning on converting into an NT player.
     
  8. LeafChief

    LeafChief Registered User

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    Who is currently on the Chinese National Team? How many players have they naturalized?

    Kazakhstan has done a decent job of this recently.
     
  9. Weissy Baby

    Weissy Baby Registered User

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    Its China, they will get the naturalization done in time for the 2022 Olympics. I wouldn't be surprised if the country gets 1-2 more KHL teams in the near future which would help add more NA/ Russian players that could potentially be naturalized.

    As for the Chinese results in the 2022 Olympic Men's Hockey tournament: They will fail and it will be spectacular!
     
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  10. JoeCool16

    JoeCool16 Registered User

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    Their national team is fairly young and in flux as they take a lot of youth players from university teams, it seems. If you look at their Asian ice hockey league team, it's about half of them, and half of university players. And

    I'd assume that they'll have Zack Yuen if he's signed with Red Star, and of course they'll have Andong Song as he already plays for their U18 team.
     
  11. AIREAYE

    AIREAYE Moderator

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    Thanks for this, great news for him at 2 years. Was hoping he'd turn out for the Toronto Marlies in 2013, but it was not to be.
     
  12. Jussi

    Jussi Registered User

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    And it has brought them so much success. Oh wait...
     
  13. LeafChief

    LeafChief Registered User

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    For a country struggling to produce top end (or any) talent, I would argue that it's better to have the naturalized players than to not.
     
  14. JackSlater

    JackSlater Registered User

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    Why? They're going to lose horribly anyway. Why put up a facade?
     
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  15. Nakawick

    Nakawick Minty Fresh

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    I normally would cheer for a weaker host nation to play well and be competitive. But I hope this "Team China" gets absolutely demolished every game.
     
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  16. JoeCool16

    JoeCool16 Registered User

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    I remember during the World Cup 2010, Brazil beat North Korea 2-1 and didn't get their first goal until the second half. Good systems and heart go a long way. Maybe it won't win it for them, but I remember a somewhat similar scenario when Latvia gave Canada a bit of a scare during the 2014 Olympics. China won't be at Latvia's level by 2022, but that's still 8 years from now. The 18 year olds on their eventual team are currently ten. Do you really think that if they start working now, they can't make vast improvements? Get part of the way there?
     
  17. JackSlater

    JackSlater Registered User

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    They can certainly improve, but even getting to Latvia's level would be an incredible improvement. China has shown very little ability to excel at team sports, and hockey is extremely uncommon there. I expect (assuming NHL participation) that the difference between Latvia and China in 2022 would be similar to the difference between Latvia and Canada, unless China just imports players.
     
  18. JoeCool16

    JoeCool16 Registered User

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    I certainly don't expect them to get to Latvia's level; Latvia is a legitimate top-tier team that deserves to be there. I'm saying that they can get to the level where they won't lose horribly.

    China doesn't succeed in team sports to a degree because a lot of their athletic funding goes towards individual sports. They could fund 11 people to play soccer and potentially get a medal (doubtful, because there are tons of countries that are amazing at soccer), or they could fund 11 people each in individual sports that aren't universally popular, and get 11 medals. That mindset doesn't have to continue though and if China is serious about improving at hockey, I think they have the resources to kickstart that.
     
  19. Milos Krasic

    Milos Krasic Ballin' in Poland

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    South Korea is doing the same thing.

    That's just today's international game.
     
  20. TomB

    TomB Registered User

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    The difference between Latvia and China is much greater than that between Canada and Latvia.

    Latvia would beat China by 20+ goals.
     
  21. JoeCool16

    JoeCool16 Registered User

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    Oh, they'd demolish them today, no doubt. The question is how would they do against China if China used their 8 years until the Olympics to seriously develop their hockey program?

    Perhaps we'll get a sneak peak of what that'll look like this winter when Asia has the 2017 Asia Winter Games. China's hockey team will go against Kazakhstan, probably the best comparable to Latvia AND to top level hockey. It'll be a good litmus test for China (and South Korea, for 2018) to see where they're at.
     
  22. JackSlater

    JackSlater Registered User

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    China does fund team sports, and their participation in soccer and basketball is huge. They're still horrible. Hockey would be much more difficult, particularly because there is no existing interest. I doubt that in six years China could improve enough to ensure that a top country couldn't blow it out, if the opposition was motivated to do so.
     
  23. waffletrouble

    waffletrouble Registered User

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    [mod]

    I don't agree with the participation in soccer in China being huge. Soccer has been marred by cases of corruption that government-led initiatives have only recently fought to fix. Until recently, this has driven many people away from soccer in China, as parents have been reluctant to enroll their children in soccer programs associated with corruption. This, along with the corruption present within the leagues and development systems, has driven the quality of soccer in China downward. In addition, contrary to your beliefs that soccer participation in China is huge, the Chinese Football Association reported that in 2011, there were fewer than 10,000 registered soccer players in China. As I said, government initiatives have only recently sought to remedy these issues by seeking to remove corruption in the Chinese soccer system, pushing for more schools to field soccer programs, and pumping bigger investments into developing soccer in China into a more respectable state. We won't know how this works out until some years down the line.

    In the case of basketball, I would definitely not call Chinese basketball "horrible," and I'm also uncertain about the amount of participation in the sport in China being "huge." Although the Chinese Basketball Association reports that there are 300 million people playing basketball in China, I would reckon that only a small fraction of this 300 million actually plays the sport in any serious manner (in East Asian cultures, school and work typically takes up most of your time, to a much greater extent than it does in the West). Also, while Chinese basketball is certainly far from the level of say, basketball in America or many parts of Europe, it is certainly not as awful as you seem to be making it out to be. China currently ranks 14th in the FIBA rankings and outright dominates FIBA Asia. Sure, FIBA Asia isn't exactly rigorous competition, but you almost seem to be making the case that Chinese basketball is the joke of the world or something. For comparison, Latvia's IIHF ranking is 10th. In addition, Chinese national teams have faced off against American national teams in basketball in recent times. Although the American teams were obviously much more dominant, it isn't as if the American teams beat the Chinese teams by a thousand points every time or something. I've seen some people here and there making the case that South Korea has one of the better teams in ice hockey in Asia (though it isn't exactly a high bar) and as such, they're definitely worthy of praise and should be allowed to participate in the upcoming Winter Olympics. If this South Korean team who isn't even ranked first in Asia (a very weak region for hockey) is worthy of praise, then how does that make the Chinese basketball team, who is by far the most dominant team in Asian basketball, a complete joke? Sure, China has quite a ways to go to reach their potential in basketball, but I wouldn't go so far as to call Chinese basketball absolute garbage.

    As I briefly touched upon earlier, in the context of history and culture, China has for the longest time (dating back to at least the creation of imperial examinations during the Han Dynasty) been largely focused on academics and schooling (a quality that has likewise spread to other nations in the Sinosphere). This could have a possible negative effect on the development of athletics in China, but in an ideal case, due to the sheer population size of China, there will likely always be a decent amount of people who may at the end of the day just feel like being athletes instead, regardless of what their parents or societal norms tell them to do. I think, however, three things need to improve before we get to this level: socioeconomic levels need to catch up such that the middle class is a much more sizable portion of the population in turn allowing households to have enough income to take some risks career-wise, developmental systems need to improve to be able to more effectively allow athletes to find and work toward reaching their potentials, and corruption needs to be more widely rooted out. Obviously, corruption will ALWAYS exist in every country to some degree, no matter how hard you work at getting rid of it, but I feel like these three goals can more or less be achieved with time.

    I also disagree with any possible notions I've seen in other threads in the past that, somehow, Chinese people are inherently unable to work with each other, and that this is the reason for the poor record of Chinese team sports. I find this to be a completely ignorant view and challenge whoever might think this to look at things like doubles badminton and eSports. Although doubles badminton may not be as team-heavy as actual team-based sports such as hockey, soccer, and basketball, doubles badminton still requires a deep level of synergy with your partner and knowledge of partner-based strategies. And yet, China is absolutely dominant in Olympic doubles badminton, often besting countries such as South Korea, Denmark, and Japan. Although eSports obviously lack much of the physical elements of common team-based sports, anyone who has been involved in eSports or even played online team-based games competitively can tell you that teamwork, strategy, and coordination is absolutely vital to success in eSports. Yet, for many years (until a recent slump), China has dominated one of the biggest games in eSports: Dota 2.

    Now, does any of this mean I believe China can field a passable ice hockey team in 2022? I don't know, but I'm leaning toward no, barring a miracle. As a Chinese, I have faith that China can definitely improve in hockey if the will is there, but I don't know if that will have a noticeable effect by 2022. I'd only like to challenge people who believe that hockey cannot succeed in China due to some perceived inherent inferiority of Chinese people. I've been lurking these boards for a while and it often seems that racism against people such as Russians (and whenever it comes up, Chinese) and Cold War-style xenophobia is largely ignored. I know better than to expect it to change, but I thought I'd make an account to at least fight back against some rather ignorant things I see, as I've been disappointed time and time again about people rarely getting called out for their BS.
     
    Last edited by moderator YWGinYYZ: Jul 23, 2016
  24. kabidjan18

    kabidjan18 Registered User

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    [mod]

    I think naturally the team will have a lot of Canadian-Chinese or American-Chinese players on it but players who are ethnically Chinese I hope. The goal in all sports is to have a team built of "freak" athletes. Hockey being a niche sport tends to have less freak athletes, and scientifically speaking different ethnicities are shown to have varying amounts of fast twitch muscles and different bone structures which does inherently affect how many freaks one country can generate. It will be a long time, much longer than 8 years before the Su Bingtian's, the Hui Ruoqi's, the Mao Yi's, or the Tian Houwei's of the world come to hockey, so I don't see the 2022 team being great or exceptionally competitive, but they'll probably be a low D1B team by then.
     
    Last edited by moderator YWGinYYZ: Jul 23, 2016
  25. waffletrouble

    waffletrouble Registered User

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    Oh for sure. I don't doubt that hockey will take a long time to develop in China, and I don't see the Chinese team being super great by 2022, either. I suppose I was just a little bit tired of people claiming that there was some kind of inherent inferiority in Chinese people or Chinese culture that made it impossible for hockey or team sports in general to ever grow in China. I've seen these statements made in the past and was a little irked by them, so I wanted to give my take on things as a Chinese person.
     

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