How to create a new Pro hockey league

showtime8

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
11,554
1,145
Toronto, ON
It's not even remotely the same. Stores can sell the same merchandise while there is only 1 of each player.

There will be more players to come after these players retire. Does it matter if your name is xxxx or zzzz? Not at the slightest.

Now stores are going to compete to sell the same product (hockey in the other case), for a better price.
 

ACC1224

Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
Aug 19, 2002
73,579
38,908
There will be more players to come after these players retire. Does it matter if your name is xxxx or zzzz? Not at the slightest.

Now stores are going to compete to sell the same product (hockey in the other case), for a better price.

The product that has Crosby on the ice will not be the same as the one with Mike Brown.

One League will always be 2nd rate like the WHA, USFL, XFL.
 

showtime8

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
11,554
1,145
Toronto, ON
Not true at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barriers_to_entry

Almost all of these would apply.

Also good luck on starting your business in direct competition with Wal-Mart. You will get steam rolled.

I'm sure you could have said that to Target and other corporations. Watch out for Walmart, so don't even try to start up a business. You know what, every other food chain should fold to McDonalds and just give up. They are clearly the biggest and noone will have any chance to succeed in a market.

Hockey is obviously a different animal aside from all of that, but its purely an entertainment business. Is anything affected if there is no hockey? No.

And all that wikipedia article is saying is that its going to be hard to start a business overnight. No **** sherlock. You mean I can't start a league like the NHL before this lockout ends?
 

indigobuffalo

Portage and Main
Feb 10, 2011
6,790
559
Winnipeg MB
Although I completely agree with what you're saying, I don't see why another league can't be started up in North America. The only hurdle that the new league would face is history. That's the only thing thats on the NHL side.

Its almost the same as saying if Walmart is already in your city, then why would any other businesses try to come in?

Are any tickets in the league affordable? Outside of Florida/Tampa Bay/Phoenix, I wouldn't say that sitting up in the 300 section of a building, paying over $100 is reasonable.

Here's a link that hopefully provides valuable information on why a new league has no sustainability. It can certainly start-up all it wants, but the NHL will crush it so hard, that it's a venture in utter futility.

The World Hockey Association (French: Association mondiale de hockey) was a professional ice hockey league that operated in North America from 1972 to 1979. It was the first major competition for the National Hockey League (NHL) since the collapse of the Western Hockey League in 1926. Although the WHA was not the first league since that time to attempt to challenge the NHL's supremacy, it was by far the most successful

Furthermore, why would an owner want to start a new league rather than buy into the NHL's market by franchising a new team and then benefitting from the revenue sharing and marketing structure already in place.

Here are a few key differences between what the WHA was able to do and what a new league would be able to do:

The WHA hoped to capitalize on the lack of hockey teams in a number of major cities[sup]1[/sup], and it also hoped to attract the best players by paying more than NHL owners would[sup]2[/sup]. The WHA successfully challenged the reserve clause, which bound players to their NHL teams even without a valid contract, allowing players in both leagues greater freedom of movement. Sixty-seven players jumped from the NHL to the WHA in the first year, led by star forward Bobby Hull, whose ten-year, $2.75 million contract was a record at the time. Unlike the NHL, the WHA also signed many European players.[sup]3[/sup]

[sup]1[/sup] There are fewer Canadian cities not currently in the NHL and even fewer that would be considered a big enough market to bother posting a team in. A new team might be able to wrest a spot in Toronto/Markham, but Halifax, Saskatoon and maybe Victoria would be the few other top contenders (assuming that the NHL puts a team in Quebec City). This differs from when the WHA came into being, when teams could be placed in Edmonton, Winnipeg and Quebec City.

Even at that, the WHA was only successful (for a brief time) because it went and added teams in the US as well. That's an integral consideration for marketing and broadcasting. Getting the games televised outside of using hand-helds and YouTube would be very hard to do with a Canada Only policy...

[sup]2[/sup]It would be very, very hard to find enough billionaires who wanted to start up a Canada only league and out-pay the NHL for star talent. In fact, I would almost guarantee that it would be impossible. The KHL does offer some players better salaries than NHL players, for example the rumoured offer for Ovechkin to stay in Russia or for players like Radulov, however the majority of players there make less money than average NHLers.

The major benefit for the KHL is that income is entirely tax exempt, meaning the take-home is much higher compared to the heavily taxed NA contracts.

However, taxes on income are much higher in Canada than in the USA, meaning that offering more money to players here would actually require offering upward of 50% of a player's market value just to get in the ball-game. That means a CPHL would have to pay a Sidney Crosby $13.05M/yr, and even that assumes Crosby would be interested in the same "discounted" contract he took with the Penguins.

And that further takes into assumption that Crosby is okay losing the mega-million dollar endorsements because I'm sure the majority of the Yankee businesses like Reebok and Nike will be cancelling their contracts with anyone defecting to a CPHL that has no ability to properly market itself, meaning Crosby would not be seen by millions of Americans and wouldn't "sell" the Reebok brand like he currently does.

Perhaps new sponsors might come into the picture, but not at what he currently gets.

[sup]3[/sup] The NHL no longer avoids European players, despite Don Cherry's lamentations, which is a major reason why the KHL isn't bigger than it is, and why it tries so desperately to retain Russian stars. However, the NHL currently taps into all the European markets, and it's scouting network is world-wide and growing.

But wait, that's irrelevant because the CPHL only wants Canadians, making it even less likely to get NHL talent to defect, and at-best would draw in some AHLers and ECHLers, and the few Canadians playing in European leagues.

Without the desire to attack markets that haven't quite got the NHL signing them up, and with a nationalistic attitude and approach, a CPHL would not make it off the ground, let alone flourish.
 

indigobuffalo

Portage and Main
Feb 10, 2011
6,790
559
Winnipeg MB
It's not so much an issue of the talent pool, the issue is having a profitable NHL with so many teams currently hemorrhaging money. Currently 13 out of 30 teams are losing money on an annual basis, and you're proposing the NHL pick up 8 or 9 new teams in non-traditional hockey markets? How long has the NHL been trying to sell hockey in the sunbelt, with little to no results? I agree that many other Canadian cities should have teams, but trying for another decade to sell hockey to people in the southern and western US is just a waste of time, and money. The CBA would have to be dramatically altered, specifically pertaining to rules about profit sharing and salary cap to even create a glimmer of hope for what you're proposing, and teams like TOR, MTL, NYR, VAN want no part of it.

Personally, I don't want to see ECHL and AHLers playing along side Crosby, Ovechkin and Giroux. The NHL is considered the best hockey league in the world for a reason, and to dilute the talent pool just so the best players can appear better is a horrible idea. A hockey team still needs to be constructed to win (snipers, grinders, checkers, etc.). Removing 6 teams wouldn't automatically mean that Chris Kunitz will be on the Penguins 4th line, or Joni Pitkanen will be the Hurricanes 5th defenseman. There is only a small percentage of elite players in the NHL and this wouldn't change with a smaller league. Every team will still need a couple of stay at home defensemen and a handful of penalty killers.

You should clarify you mean fans of those teams want no part of it.

Ownership of all those teams definitely support the Sunbelt teams. Those teams are key components when negotiating broadcasting rights in the US Markets, meaning that they are key components to the overall marketing and distribution of the NHL brand throughout the US.

Fans of Canadian teams complain because they want Vincent Lecavalier or Shane Doan on their team and they see these empty arenas and think that those players are feeling abandoned and unwanted.

Those teams are losing money, but they are not hemorrhaging money like people have been led to believe. The Coyotes "lost" a mere $10M or so, and that was largely due to the on-going circus over whether they'll even be in Glendale any longer.

Eventually, the Sunbelt teams will start to become hockey markets too, as will any new expansion area. If you build it, they will come.
 

Drew311

Makes The Pass
Oct 29, 2010
11,902
2,381
You should clarify you mean fans of those teams want no part of it.

Ownership of all those teams definitely support the Sunbelt teams. Those teams are key components when negotiating broadcasting rights in the US Markets, meaning that they are key components to the overall marketing and distribution of the NHL brand throughout the US.

Fans of Canadian teams complain because they want Vincent Lecavalier or Shane Doan on their team and they see these empty arenas and think that those players are feeling abandoned and unwanted.

Those teams are losing money, but they are not hemorrhaging money like people have been led to believe. The Coyotes "lost" a mere $10M or so, and that was largely due to the on-going circus over whether they'll even be in Glendale any longer.

Eventually, the Sunbelt teams will start to become hockey markets too, as will any new expansion area. If you build it, they will come.

I couldn't disagree more.

They "built" most of these franchises decades ago and fans only show up when the team makes the playoffs. The mark of a truly successful market is one that has built up such a fanbase that they continue to show up to the game whether the team is good or not. For example, Toronto, Montreal, Edmonton, Calgary and Vancouver have rabid fanbases because hockey is the #1 sport in these markets. Trying to push hockey down the throat of a market like Tampa Bay or San Jose which have approximately 5 - 10 more popular sports is a futile act. Pro Football, Baseball, Pro Basketball, Nascar and a myriad of college sports are all more watched than hockey in the majority of US states.

Just because you build an arena and stick a team in it, does not at all mean that it will be successful. Many teams have failed over the years in basically all North American sports, hockey included.
 

achtungbaby

Registered User
Oct 31, 2006
4,792
25
Hockey would become the least watched sport globally.

I never understood why hockey fans cared so much about what other people thought about their sport. In a Canadian league as the OP suggests, who cares who else is watching if we're enjoying the product? That said, I can't see this flying. The poor will always be amongst us.
 

Bedards Dad

I was in the pool!!
Nov 3, 2011
13,730
8,295
Toronto
1. This is one of the worst, if not the worst idea I have seen on HFB, and there have been a lot of bad ones.
2. You clearly have no understanding of the business world at all
3. Seriously bad idea.
 

Sam Slick*

Guest
You might want to read a bit about how the WHA got big players to join them. 500k salaries isn't going to cut it, you'll have to be competitive w/ KHL salaries. Also WHA put teams in big markets that didn't have teams.

I think that the NHLPA dissolves before a new league forms. Hell, if the NHLPA dissolves, and CBA is eliminated, what would be the difference to starting a new league? Only difference is you still have rich owners and you retain the brand power of the NHL.

Agreed.
 

Sam Slick*

Guest
1. This is one of the worst, if not the worst idea I have seen on HFB, and there have been a lot of bad ones.
2. You clearly have no understanding of the business world at all
3. Seriously bad idea.

Uh ok, bad idea...no understaning, bad idea.

Blah blah blah.

fact is, most are missing my point and are thinking about this big monster called the NHL. I am saying if the NHL folded or had an extended lockout of 2 or 3 years, and a new league sprung up in Canada, just about everyone would support it.

Nhl has its history, but when the NHL IS history, we will all learn to forget it soon enough, especially when the players cave and want to play in Canada. Sure, they will not play for peanuts, but the KHL is only so big and in time, salaries will go back up. You, good sir, if you are a hockey fan and the only league you could follow was an upstart league (with NO NHL) you would follow it, just like the rest of us.
 

ACC1224

Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
Aug 19, 2002
73,579
38,908
Uh ok, bad idea...no understaning, bad idea.

Blah blah blah.

fact is, most are missing my point and are thinking about this big monster called the NHL. I am saying if the NHL folded or had an extended lockout of 2 or 3 years, and a new league sprung up in Canada, just about everyone would support it.

Nhl has its history, but when the NHL IS history, we will all learn to forget it soon enough, especially when the players cave and want to play in Canada. Sure, they will not play for peanuts, but the KHL is only so big and in time, salaries will go back up. You, good sir, if you are a hockey fan and the only league you could follow was an upstart league (with NO NHL) you would follow it, just like the rest of us.

The NHL is not going to fold or lockout for 3 years.
 

Sam Slick*

Guest
The NHL is not going to fold or lockout for 3 years.

Really? Crystal ball time is it?

If the league is cancelled this year....it could very easily go into next year to. Those guys egos are to big to lose...
 

ACC1224

Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
Aug 19, 2002
73,579
38,908
Really? Crystal ball time is it?

If the league is cancelled this year....it could very easily go into next year to. Those guys egos are to big to lose...

No crystal ball, common sense.
 

ACC1224

Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
Aug 19, 2002
73,579
38,908
Correct....and you do not, in fact, know when it will end. :)

No but common sense says it will and not after 3 years. It certainly won't fold.

What is the longest a League has ever been out?
 

Sam Slick*

Guest
No but common sense says it will and not after 3 years. It certainly won't fold.

What is the longest a League has ever been out?

Not really sure. But, just so you know, I would prefer the NHL to come back. But, in the off chance it doesnt, I am ok with a new league.
 

Snow Dog

Victorious
Jan 3, 2013
5,152
16
GTA
Maybe all the profitable teams currently in the NHL could band together and form a league or take over the NHL,say about 16 teams.There would be no need for a salary cap.The top 300 players in the world would play in it and it would be great hockey.No borders involved.Teams like the Leafs,Rangers,Vancouver could easily afford a $100 million payroll.the teams that can't cut it would be feeder teams until they can prove profitability or be willing to loose cash big time to keep up.No chance of revenue sharing written into the constitution.
Almost all the teams would be like all star teams,and no doubt the current profits would soar,thereby being able to afford higher salaries for the players.
 

cujoflutie

Registered User
No but common sense says it will and not after 3 years. It certainly won't fold.

What is the longest a League has ever been out?

the baseball one went from august 1994 to april 1995 (8 months)

the previous hockey lockout went from september 2004 to july 2005 (10 months).

Now mind you baseballs went through an entire offseason and into the next season whereas hockey's started the month before the season would have started and ended the month after the season would have ended.
 

yoyo999

Registered User
May 24, 2012
496
0
Does anyone know exactly how the NHL head offices are currently in New York. The NHL was formed in Canada. When exactly did it go state side?

The NHL head-office (like every other head-office :p:) used to be in Montreal, where the league has it's roots.

They moved to New York in 1989 under John Ziegler. The head-scheduler and player pension dept are still in Montreal though apparently.

The NHLPA's head-office is in Toronto.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=625168
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->