How much is AO going to help?

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by Jaded-Fan, May 19, 2004.

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  1. Jaded-Fan

    Jaded-Fan Registered User

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    The Caps did have Jagr the last few years after all, and a much stronger supporting cast behind Jagr than AO will have when he takes the ice. Granted the Caps have some nice prospects coming up, but will need a few to step up to become what they had with Jagr. And the defense is basically at the start over from scratch phase from what I read, that area needs a quick upgrade. Are the Caps fans expecting Jagr like numbers or much more? And what kind of team do you all suggest building to keep what happened when they had Jagr from happening again? What mistakes were made in assembling that Jagr led team that may be learned from this time around? This is not a slam on AO, Caps, or anyone btw, just something that I would be thinking on if I were a Caps fan and thoughts that I am sure that Caps management is thinking on.
     
  2. usiel

    usiel My Ass Is On Fire Sponsor

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    I think much of the Capitals strategy depends on the post CBA environment which at the moment no one can predict. As with any prospect one can only hope they fulfill their potential. I'm assuming if the caps draft AO that we probably won't see him till the 05 season at the earliest due to the CBA stuff and I believe his contract runs through this next season anyways with his club.
     
  3. Chimaera

    Chimaera same ol' Caps

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    Actually... some of what you're infering is pretty much true, however, a lot of depends on what happens with the CBA.


    There's been much discussion here and on the caps message boards about what will happen with this roster post lockout and come salary cap time and so forth.

    Here's what has been somewhat hashed out. More than likely, there will be some type of Cap, probably in the range of 30-40 million. Some of the contracts on the more expensive teams will get grandfathered in, some will not. I think this is probable largely due to there's a good block of teams (15-20) who aren't loaded with salary like Toronto, NY Rangers, Detroit, who will not allow some type of light cap, or no cap at all to pass. With that sort of Cap, there should be a good number of Free Agents on the market who are looking for jobs.

    Looking at the Caps Roster now, they would probably have quite a large portion of any Cap to spend on adding a few key Veterans who could play important roles with a team. I'm not talking of getting the top tier players, but more the mid range players the Caps will need to fill out on their roster. There should be a pretty large market for the Caps to pick and choose who they want to fill that role.

    Granted, their talent is still largely unproven, but there is a lot of it there. That's one thing most people will agree with. Down the line, from Semin, who has immense upside to be a potential 60-70 point person (possibly more) on a decent line, towards Fehr, Aulin, Fleischman, Klepis, etc... in the forward department. I'm not claiming all of them will pan out, just that some of them should be valuable contributers for this team.

    And defensively, they do have two key parts that should play a solid role in their defensive corps, Morrisonn and Eminger both have loads of potential, with Morrisonn already having shown more of late. And Yonkman could be a potentially solid defenseman as well (if he can overcome the injury bug) Cutta's another guy with loads of raw skills who needs some seasoning.

    In Goal, they have to be considered one of the top teams as far as prospect depth.

    Either way.. they do have some potentially quality players already in the system. Add that to an owner who has said he will spend some money once the CBA is figured out (as it is idiocy to spend prior to that point) and a team who has significant numbers of draft picks, then it should be interesting.

    As for what team they're going to try and build, GMGM has said he wants to build like the older Caps teams. Build from the goal out, i.e. restructure the defensive corps, through the draft and in quality free agent acquisitions. And once the defense is built, add timely scoring and hardworking forwards up front. Character is another key point. Taking players who have high character and demonstrate maturity and hard work are probably going to be players he looks at as well. The irony is, if not for Ovechkin being the clear favorite for the number 1 in this draft, I doubt GMGM would have taken anything other than a defenseman with his top pick. If 2-3 defensemen don't get drafted by the Caps in the top couple of rounds, I'll be shocked as well. They need an influx of defenseman that badly. Though... project forwards and centermen (especially from the WHL) are also typical McPhee choices.


    All of that is based upon speculation however. The Caps are probably the one team that needs a lockout for a year more than anyone else. A whole year to let their younger players grow would help the team out immensely.
     
  4. Vlad The Impaler

    Vlad The Impaler Registered User

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    You gave it away. They assembled the "Jagr team".

    It all starts at the top. You need a good GM, then a good coach. Then you work your way down to fit the system you envision. That is the safest road to success.

    You can circumvent this formula and succeed with an insane amount of *willing* talents but those teams are exceptions rather than the rule.
     
  5. Gumby

    Gumby Registered User

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    Well first you talk like them having Jagr shoulda put them into instant Cup favs when, as I'm sure you know, Jagr is far from what he was...this is proved by his continued disinterested, lack of effort (compared to when he was w/ the Pens) play that he still showed w/ NY. He's turned into yet another guy who got his HUGE payday and took it easy (why I hate guaranteed contracts). Anyway, I think the problem he Caps had 2 years ago when they had a decent roster was the enormous blunder McPhee made by firing Wilson and bringing in what turned out to be someone about as ready for a NHL coaching job as my dog is w/ Cassidy....which was a total dissaster. I think the main thing that was learned from the last few years is that Leonsis has learned to stay calm and not let get way too over zealous in his wanting to win and throw around money like he did when the team doesn't generate much, which is what came back to bite him last offseason when he couldn't keep a decent d-corp in tact (plus the idiot Cassidy running off Johannson and Konowalchuk....who I'm sure didn't wanna re-sign b/c of Cassidy). Now, with Leonsis a lot more reasonable w/ the purse strings and who I think is an excellent coach, especially with developing youngsters, I expect a slow steady point improvement over the next 2-3 years that will culminate with a playoff spot by year 3 at the latest. As for what is expected outta AO, I expect him to come in this year or next and put up 50 points and be a Calder finalist, nothing more. All in all though, it's a rebuilding job and who knows what'll happen.....we are lucky enough to start with what looks to be a helluva cornerstone to start it with though.....hopefully he pans out.
     
  6. Grave77digger

    Grave77digger Registered User

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    I see AO as more of a final peice to a puzzle, not a corner stone to build around... you dont build a team around 1 offensive player. you build from the net out and then after all is done add a player of AO's caliber, not the other way around. Just look at the Thrashers front loaded with a cpl gifted scorers... and still no success. in all honesty AO isnt going to help Washingtons situation, not without developed goaltending and defense
     
  7. EroCaps

    EroCaps Registered User

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    I disagree wholeheartedly.

    Ovechkin is a cornerstone player in that he's arguably the most prolific multi-dimensional prospect in nearly a decade, not just a scorer, though he's lauded for his offensive ability as much as anyone in quite some time.

    In goal, the Caps have, again, "arguably" the most developed blue-chip goaltending prospect in Ouellet, and a good goalie in Kolzig.

    On D, you're right, but consider this: After this draft, the Capitals are more than likely to have traded up for a top 3 defenseman, another blue-chip level player to add to their already impressive core w/Eminger, Morrisonn, and Yonkman. Leonsis has bags of money to spend on FAs, and we still have a couple good defenseman in Witt, Boumedienne, and Doig.

    It's more than likely that if McPhee takes Ovechkin, AO will have a core of young, blue-chip offensive players, defenseman, and goalie with NHL experience, ready to be effective. It's the ideal scenario IMO.
     
  8. Grave77digger

    Grave77digger Registered User

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    thats still alot of unproven NHL talent, you can draw a direct comparison to Atlanta, when the goal and defense solidifies they will be good but until then AO is only 1 person on a team... Kovalchuk has led his team to the playoffs how many times?
     
  9. Paxon

    Paxon ⚔Z E M G U S⚔

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    Same can be said for Luongo.
     
  10. Grave77digger

    Grave77digger Registered User

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    thanks for validating my point. star forward or star goalie you will go no where with out a solid defense...
     
  11. MisterUnspoken

    MisterUnspoken Vintage

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    its simple, one player does not a team make.

    One player who scores 60 pts, more valuable than two who each score 45?

    Maybe for ticket sales, but for winning, its a little better to have quality in a certain quantity, than to have one player of amazing quality.

    Plus when you are the only offensive star on a team, what happens? Thats right people pay attention and guard you like they were guarding the launch codes for the worlds nukes.

    Its really a matter of your team as well. If you are Tampa Bay [or any other relatively young playoff team] right now and you somehow managed to draft Ovechkin via trades, you'd be wise to do so because he could be the player that pushes you over the top. If you have 1 prospect in your whole system who looks to make it to the NHL, then you might want to trade the #1 for multiple picks and or young players. It should ultimately come down to whats best for the team.

    Is Ovechkin good for Washington, I think so because they have a bunch of guys with an NHL future in front of them as is, and adding Ovechkin only helps matters.
     
  12. Jacob

    Jacob Registered User

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    I'm guessing you're a glass-is-half-full kind of guy/gal, huh?
     
  13. txpd

    txpd Registered User

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    1. there is a train of thought that Jagr was the basis of the collapse of the team from its identity to its work ethic to its team chemistry. he arrived in ny to push the rangers into the playoffs and instead the rangers death dive started with Jagr's first game. they won no more than 2 of their first 10 jagr games. hey, the czech republic didnt make the final 4 at the world championships.

    2. Ovechkin is a team oriented player. from what ive seen and read he is a two way player with top skill sets on both ends of the ice. much like a forsberg type player. the Capitals pushed a square peg(jagr) into a round hole(the konowalchuk style capitals). it failed. There is no team to fit Ovechkin into now. the team is 4 players and a collection of prospects and draft choices. it has no identity or style.
    If Ovechkin is a franchise player, the Caps will easily be able to build a team to suit his skills.
     
  14. txpd

    txpd Registered User

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    I have to disagree. Ovechkin's style describes Peter Forsberg who is certainly a corner stone of the Colorado teams. Ovechkin should be "a" corner stone. In hockey the goalie is also always "a" corner stone and can be "THE" corner stone.

    By using your example of the Thrashers every NHL corner stone would have to be a goalie. contrary though, the thrashers threatened for the playoffs with shotty goaltending and defense, the loss of a top player(heatley) and the death of a teammate(snider)...all in large part because Kovulchuk would often carry them
     
  15. EroCaps

    EroCaps Registered User

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    Why not?

    Washington's situation is different than Atlanta's was the past two years. The Caps entire young core, outside of maybe Fehr, anf Fleischmann are ready to step in and play major minutes.
     
  16. Jacob

    Jacob Registered User

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    We'll see. :)
     
  17. Foppa_Rules

    Foppa_Rules Registered User

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    I can't wait until next season! That lockout had better not last long!
     
  18. GoRyanMalone

    GoRyanMalone Guest

    Go Caps Go! Go Caps Go!
     
  19. Biscuit Bullet

    Biscuit Bullet Registered User

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    I read that there could potentially be a lockout for two seasons. If this is true, Alexander will come in after two more years in the RSL--he will be two years older, two years more mature--two years more developed. If Kovalchuk came in and scored nearly 30 goals his rookie year as an 18 year old, I could see Ovechkin scoring 70+ points his rookie year. 70 points by a 20 year old is not unheard of at all.
     
  20. Grave77digger

    Grave77digger Registered User

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    alot of you people are in for a reality check
     
  21. Jacob

    Jacob Registered User

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    I don't know if it works like that. If he's already one of the top players in the RSL, and a two-way force, what more is there to learn there? For two more years? He'd learn more in two full seasons in the NHL than two full ones in the RSL.

    Every player takes their bumps in their first season.
     
  22. EroCaps

    EroCaps Registered User

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    Nothing like painting with broadstrokes. ;)

    The difference between Kovalchuck and AO's cast of characters, is that AO's are generally all older, with NHL experience. Kovy has been playing for a team w/out a good goalie and weak defense. Washington should be strong in net, solid on the backline, (with great potential at both positions), and initially deep/eventually talented up front.

    I'd expect Alanta to be a playoff team next year. If the Caps add a few FA to their crazy long list of talented prospects, they should be back in a couple years themselves.
     
  23. Captain Conservative

    Captain Conservative Registered User

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    Agreed, Gravedigger.

    I think a lockout or losing season would be very helpful for the caps future. To draft one of Crosby, Brule, Latendresse, Anikeeko or one of the other elite talents in the '05 draft would really help this team in the long run. As for erocaps anointing Doig and Boumedienne as "good defensemen"...all I have to say is WAKE UP. They're both AHL calibre blueliners right now. Boumedienne has flashed the potential to be a #5 d-man in my eyes. At times he has shown above average offensive talent and average postioning. What I really like about Boumedienne is his elusiveness on the attack. There were several instances this year where he made the player covering him look like a complete fool. Unfortunatly, it is Boumedienne who looks like a fool far too often on defense. He could develop into a 3rd pairing d-man to play with Yonkman or perhaps Cutta in the future. Eminger is still a question mark. Development is not guaranteed, but his strong play near the end of the AHL season and in the Calder Cup playoffs is a positive sign. Of all the young defenseman, Morrisonn has proved the most. He is a top four defenseman right now in my eyes. I could see him developing into a solid #2 defenseman in the mold of Nick Boynton. My realistic hopes for the caps late 1st round/early 2nd round picks are Fransson, Lyamin, Tesliuk and Wharton. If we could get those four defensive prospects, I would expect one of them to be playing on the blueline in 2 or 3 years.


    What gives me real hope for the future is the young talent we have on offense. I consider Semin and AO potential superstars, Fehr definitely has the potential to be a first liner. I dont see any situation where Fehr busts. Hes a hard worker, has grit coming out of his ears, and drives the net with authority. This kid is my favorite Cap prospect and its not even close. Fleischmann will hopefully be a first line talent, but has some holes in his game that need to be worked on for him to be a suscessful NHL player. I think hes the next best offensive talent the Capitals have in the system. Aulin and Klepis are both good prospects. Werner could develop into a top six player, but he will probably play college hockey for four years.


    I really think the Caps have a nice future, which could be a brillant future if they manage to land one of the top 5 talents in next years draft.
     
  24. EroCaps

    EroCaps Registered User

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    I meant to imply that between Witt, Doig, and Boumer, we have a couple decent defenseman, to go with 2 (and with a trade up), 3 blue-chip defense prospects, and money to spend on FAs.

    I'm with you on nabbing a top 3 pick next year, how key would that be? Between Ovechkin, Semin, and (Crosby/Latendresse/Brule), the Caps could have a core capable of contention.
     
  25. Jacob

    Jacob Registered User

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    I think you're throwing around the term "blue chip" with some abandon.
     
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