How many Norris trophies should Karlsson have?

Discussion in 'Polls - (hockey-related only)' started by Sureves, Mar 8, 2018.

?

See OP

  1. 4

    26.0%
  2. 3

    16.3%
  3. 2

    21.4%
  4. 1

    16.3%
  5. 0

    19.9%
  1. joe dirte

    joe dirte Registered User

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    he's typically in the bottom 10%. I think there was a 3 or 4 year stretch he was worst in the league every year. there aren't many years he isn't dead last and those are generally years there have been miraculous goaltending performances.

    I realize that's partly a product of the team he's on but I find it hard to award ANY trophies for the best defenseman in the league to someone who gets scored on in absolute droves.

    I think he should be at 0 as a result.
     
  2. newfy

    newfy Registered User

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    Yeah I think he shoulda won last year too probably. He was much better defensively than Burns last year and their production was close while being on a worse team. The same arguments you see made against Karlsson should be doubled for Burns if you want to talk about a 4th forward on the ice
     
  3. Spirit of 67

    Spirit of 67 Registered User

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    I have no problem with that argument. With the exception of no one accuses BB of being the GOAT.
     
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  4. Lana Del Rey

    Lana Del Rey Clouds

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    4,

    even more if he didn't get two serious injuries :,(
     
  5. Lana Del Rey

    Lana Del Rey Clouds

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    for which years?

    also, he would play 30 minutes a night on some awful teams, with ahl level d partners.

    that stat is about as useful as +/-
     
  6. McFlash97

    McFlash97 Registered User

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    The real question is if Karlsson should have more Norris trophies then how many more should Coffey have. He frequently blew defensemen away in scoring races, was robbed 3 times. 6 ? 7 ? its all relevant.
     
  7. joe dirte

    joe dirte Registered User

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    which helped him collect points too though.
     
  8. Lana Del Rey

    Lana Del Rey Clouds

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    The playing on a bad team?
     
  9. garyturner3

    garyturner3 Registered User

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    I can get on board with the argument that he got robbed the year Doughty won so IMO he should have 3. But I'm not sure what justification people use that he was robbed last year. Most people are in agreement that Karlsson is the best offensive d-man in the league hands down and most people are also in agreement that he is mediocre at best defensively. His offensive abilities obviously far outweigh the negatives in his defensive game. Those same statements can more or less be made about Burns.

    If you had to pick between Burns and Karlsson over a larger period of time you obviously take Karlsson, but last season Burns simply had a better year than him. More points, higher points per game and 29 goals which is absolutely ridiculous for a d-man. What does Karlsson bring to the game to make up for the advantage in offense Burns had over him last year? It's definitely not a defensive presence. Physical play? Nope. Karlsson could have won last year for sure and nobody would have though twice about it, but all I'm saying is anyone of the opinion that Burns didn't deserve to win the award is looking at a sample size outside of the 2016-2017. Burns most certainly was a deserving winner last year.
     
  10. Iceman

    Iceman Registered User Sponsor

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    3, give the last two year's Norris to Karlsson but subtract his 2nd Norris, he had a rough first half that year.
     
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  11. Vali Maki Sushi

    Vali Maki Sushi Brady Tkachuk will be a bust.

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    I believe that was 2010-2011. Being on ice for the most goals against in itself is very subjective especially as Karlsson's GA/60 was better than all other top 4 Dman that played on the Sens by a huge margin that season.
     
  12. Vali Maki Sushi

    Vali Maki Sushi Brady Tkachuk will be a bust.

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    I'll actually agree, he didn't deserve Norris in 2014-2015. but the question is who did then? Giordano I believe was the favourite until he went down, and seeing how Brodie carried Engelland and if you actually watched the Flames you'd realize Brodie was better than Giordano for long periods that season (Note: Brodie was better than Giordano for a long stretch from 2014-2015 to 2015-2016 even if Giordano overall is the better player).
     
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  13. Lebowski

    Lebowski El Duderino

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    Subban was very solid in 14-15. He was only 6 points behind Karlsson, and IIRC had the best overall stats between the three finalists.
     
  14. Machinehead

    Machinehead Ronald 7:4

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    To be fair, Coffey played on the greatest team ever.

    Karlsson plays on...well, the Ottawa Senators.
     
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  15. Regal

    Regal Registered User

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    Coffey's only significantly contested Norris is '84
     
  16. Regal

    Regal Registered User

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    Karlsson was significantly better than Burns defensively, and also was used in a top defensive role, which Burns got to avoid with Vlasic on the team. Burns won mainly due to being dominant offensively for 3/4 of the season, and people either ignoring his slump to finish the year, or rationalizing it as "well, he was the best for 3/4 of the year, so being better for the other 1/4 isn't good enough to beat him"
     
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  17. ehhedler

    ehhedler Registered User

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    Who cares? He could have gotten Burns' Norris for all I care though. Burns is a faux defenseman with a monster beard distracting all analysts from his weak shutdown game.
     
  18. Monsieur Gustave H

    Monsieur Gustave H American Hero

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    2012, 2016, 2017
     
  19. joe dirte

    joe dirte Registered User

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    playing 30 minutes a night obviously. you couldn't figure that out??????
     
  20. joe dirte

    joe dirte Registered User

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    but GF/60 and points per 60 were not league leading if I recall.
     
  21. Iceman

    Iceman Registered User Sponsor

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    Yeah, that is the issue for me, there was not really anyone to take it from him. Giordano played great but got injured so it was up in the air 60 games into the season and the Sens had the storyline going and Karlsson finished off really strong.
     
  22. tony d

    tony d Registered User Sponsor

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    I went with 4.
     
  23. Voight

    Voight #winning

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    If you give 2016 to Karlsson then give 2015 to Doughty.

    Its hilarious how people think Doughty was undeserving of his Norris because he didn't score 70 points.

    1989 Hart was nothing close to a robbery. Gretzky transformed the Kings from middling team to a cup contender in one season. Thats a true MVP.
     
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  24. GreatGonzo

    GreatGonzo Registered Derp

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    What made Karlsson better than Burns last year? I’m seeing that a lot. Just because he’s your favorite player and/or is consistently in their among offensive defensemen, that doesn’t mean he was clearly “better” than anyone.

    Burns was more consistent than EK last season, and he was on par, if not slightly better defensively. The only thing people like to bring up was his playoff run that year to justify the other 82 games he played where he wasn’t the best defenseman.
     
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  25. Vali Maki Sushi

    Vali Maki Sushi Brady Tkachuk will be a bust.

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    How exactly was he on par if not slightly better defensively? Burns suppression metrics were worse, Burns GA/60 relative was only a very slight amount better against significantly easier opposition and far more not only overall Ozone starts but relative as well. Far better support as well.
     

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