How is Blake Wheeler doing?
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Vlad The Impaler
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MN_Gopher said:
That's encouraging. I thought he was a little soft from what I read. Can't wait to see this guy next year.
BTW, he couldn't play college last year but could he have played this year? If yes, why didn't he do it? Thanks!
He is officially a high school senior ineligable for college. To good for HS.
He can be soft kind of. Does not seek out big hits like i would like at times, but is not affraid to take one to make a play.
He can be soft kind of. Does not seek out big hits like i would like at times, but is not affraid to take one to make a play.
Vlad The Impaler
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rt said:
Exactly! I think this thread has been going well if you ask me. This is one of those times when I'm glad HF is around
BTW, I finally found a list of (what I think is up to date) top scorers in the USHL. Blake currently sits 33rd overall. 24 points in 30 games.
The current leaders are at 40 points. They are Corey Carlson (in 32 games) and Dan Riedel (31 games).
Vlad The Impaler said:
Physical play seems to be the key to this guy's success. If you read through MN_Gopher's posts, he pretty much makes that point. Wheeler is still learning to use all his tools and put them together as well as play physical.
Incidentially Pineault was actually supposed to be a top 10 pick for a long time. He fell not because of his talent but because of what happened in college. While he's a big guy he's also 3-4 inches shorter than Wheeler. As I said already, guys like Pineault, Backes, Fritsche are not your typical 2nd rounders.. there are guys like Paukovich with zero goals in the USHL. I take your point though with the question what makes him different to a 2nd round prospect. I think there's two factors, one was the incredible weakness of the 2002 draft. Most of that first round is going to turn out to be a bunch of 3rd liners at best. The other being that he has all the tools and Phoenix are gambling on him learning how to put it together.
Gwyddbwyll said:
Umm... FYI, Paukovich doesn't play in the USHL this year.
He plays for Denver in the WCHA, with 6g 4a in 21 games.
Vlad The Impaler
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dawgbone said:
Sorry, Paukovich had his 1 in 31 season last year you're right. I mixed him up with Doherty, another 2nd rounder.
MN_Gopher said:
Like MN_Gopher I have seen Mr. Wheeler play several times and the "being soft" label is a little misleading I think. Sure, he isn't a goon, and at that size you would almost expect him to solely rely on his physical dominance, which he has whoever he plays....however, that is not his role on the team. He has skill, speed, and vision. To me it would be a waste to try and rough things up just for the sake of not being "soft". He doesn't seem to back down from physicality when it presents itself, yet he doesn't look for it. I wouldn't call him soft, but he isn't a "physical forward" (in its truest sense) yet either, but I would imagine he will end up there. His upside is tremendous, and I look forward to seeing him at the U of MN, where the talent around him should really help him shine!
rt
The Kinder, Gentler Version
Project? Project? We're talking about projects?
Project? Project? We're talking about projects?
I hate the term and hate it as a draft strategy. The Kings (my team) went this route with the 26th pick taking Brian Boyle when guys like Corey Perry, Patrick Eaves, Shawn Belle, Fritsche, O'Sullivan, Vrana were still available.
#%$*(&@ projects!
Aside from Zdeno Chara, who is a defenceman, can someone give me an example of a high round draft pick forward who was a "project" that actually turned out?
I'd very much like to be proven wrong so I can hold out some hope that Boyle will become a 1st or 2nd rounder - 'cause a 1st round pick shouldn't be used for anything else.
Project? Project? We're talking about projects?
I hate the term and hate it as a draft strategy. The Kings (my team) went this route with the 26th pick taking Brian Boyle when guys like Corey Perry, Patrick Eaves, Shawn Belle, Fritsche, O'Sullivan, Vrana were still available.
#%$*(&@ projects!
Aside from Zdeno Chara, who is a defenceman, can someone give me an example of a high round draft pick forward who was a "project" that actually turned out?
I'd very much like to be proven wrong so I can hold out some hope that Boyle will become a 1st or 2nd rounder - 'cause a 1st round pick shouldn't be used for anything else.
Vlad The Impaler
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Depends how highly drafted you are talking about but first forwards I can think of who were projects that seem to work are Nik Antropov and Konstantin Koltsov. One was a project drafted for size and skills, the other for his unreal speed to go with skills.
If we go a few years back, Bertuzzi also fits the description and has panned out really well.
If we go a few years back, Bertuzzi also fits the description and has panned out really well.
Kings16 said:
How about Keith Tkachuk who was another high school student that the Winnipeg Jets were publically ridiculed for selecting in the first round.
Wild Thing
Child... please.
Well those are pretty good ones, Tkachuk in '90; Bertuzzi in '93 and Antropov in '98.
Incidently the player picked after Tkachuk was Martin Brodeur.
It gives me some hope that Boyle will turn out for the Kings, but I'm extremely skeptical and would rather the Kings had taken a chance on Patrick O'Sullivan - who has a troubled past but is a heck of a player.
Incidently the player picked after Tkachuk was Martin Brodeur.
It gives me some hope that Boyle will turn out for the Kings, but I'm extremely skeptical and would rather the Kings had taken a chance on Patrick O'Sullivan - who has a troubled past but is a heck of a player.
Like its been said Thachuk 19th, Rob Blake went 70th overall, Bertuzzi 23rd overall , weight 34th, Chara 56th, all power forwards and big D men. In 4-5 years i guess Phoenix didnt want a list to read Wheeler 25th overall.
Vlad The Impaler
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Vlad The Impaler
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PhoPhan said:
He's been there since 2001 I think, and his job there has been very ordinary.
No management worthy of that name should give a ****, even if he has a stellar track record in Phoenix, which he has not. There is always a bigger picture when you are in charge.
I don't think much of Gretzky & co. and their circus but I doubt even they would lack the balls needed to put a scout in his place. The Coyotes do not work for the scouts. The scouts work for the Coyotes.
That being said, if they were terribly high on Wheeler, I don't see why they should trade down. But he definitly has to be worth it and as far as I'm concerned, I haven't been impressed by Draper. I think his reputation is way overblown.
Good scout, but not enough that licking his boots should be required.
Vlad The Impaler said:
Maybe you dont realise how bad their drafting was before Draper. Focht, DesRochers, Kelman, Safronov.. these are the guys who carried franchise tags! A shocking record. In five years, they've had just two unqualified successes in Ossi Vaananen and Trevor Letowski (gee). Esche and Briere were more headaches for years than successes and that's pretty much it. We're not saying Draper is the best scout in the NHL but its patently obvious clear to every Coyote fan here that he has improved their drafting and development considerably. He's helped the team get more NHLers in his first four years than they got in the five years before it and most likely will double or treble that output when all is said and done. Its possible he will end up having drafted 5 NHLers from the 2002 class, a truly outstanding record in a terrible year and several late picks are showing surprising progress (ie/ Lewandowski dominating Germany, Gelech top scorer for Memorial Cup winners)
I agree with you in your other points though, I dont think they lick his boots or anything. I think they just rolled the dice with a big time project because the last time they were in a draft of such poor quality.. they played safe and drafted Koreis and Eager. Those guys will be OK 3rd liners in the NHL but they dont need more 3rd liners.. they have too many as it is.. they need prospects with real upside.. someone like Wheeler.
Vlad The Impaler
Registered User
Gwyd, you're right, the track record wasn't anything great pre-Draper.
I just question the comments that Dave Draper would be so good that you have to cuddle him as an organization. The job he is doing right now seems to be average, so you'd think others could do that.
Having said that, it's still early and maybe Dave's reputed magic will come out from late picks the way it sometimes did in Colorado. Or maybe guys like Koreis and Eager will not even make it to the NHL. Both possibilities are very real.
I just think (and hope) the Coyotes took the guy because it sounds good, not to please Dave Draper because he might leave otherwise.
No matter how we cut it, Blake Wheeler is going to be a selection that makes people talk, which is kind of fun. I can't wait to see what happens in College!
I just question the comments that Dave Draper would be so good that you have to cuddle him as an organization. The job he is doing right now seems to be average, so you'd think others could do that.
Having said that, it's still early and maybe Dave's reputed magic will come out from late picks the way it sometimes did in Colorado. Or maybe guys like Koreis and Eager will not even make it to the NHL. Both possibilities are very real.
I just think (and hope) the Coyotes took the guy because it sounds good, not to please Dave Draper because he might leave otherwise.
No matter how we cut it, Blake Wheeler is going to be a selection that makes people talk, which is kind of fun. I can't wait to see what happens in College!
PhoPhan
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- Feb 27, 2002
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The reason I suggested they might have coddled to Draper's request is due to the fact that they had pissed him off before, and he was practically threatening to leave. They had just seen Benoit Allaire, one of the best goalie coaches in the league, skip town, and they didn't want to lose another important part of the front office.
dafranchz
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Now that is someone I want to see more of. Loved him in the World Cup...now he's kicking butt in Germany to boot...too bad he just slipped out of the HF criteria (can't justify following him other then for personal reasons)Gwyddbwyll said:
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