how good was Orr ?
- Thread starter Gee Wally
- Start date
Many people said that there was Bobby Orr and then there was everyone else. These same people claim that they should have invented another league for Bobby Orr.
My Dad has often told me that Gretzky in his prime wouldn't be fit to lace Orr's skates when Orr was in his prime.
My Dad has often told me that Gretzky in his prime wouldn't be fit to lace Orr's skates when Orr was in his prime.
Trottier
Very Random
How good was Bobby Orr?
That good.
***
Saw that OLN segment when it first aired. Bobby Clarke's comment sums it up for me: "He could do everything and he he did it with grace, elegance and modesty. He is what every hockey should want to be like."
Those who remember the fierce competitor that Clarke was on the ice recognize the weight of those words.
That good.
***
Saw that OLN segment when it first aired. Bobby Clarke's comment sums it up for me: "He could do everything and he he did it with grace, elegance and modesty. He is what every hockey should want to be like."
Those who remember the fierce competitor that Clarke was on the ice recognize the weight of those words.
David Puddy
Registered User
Harry Sinden said, "Howe could do everything, but not at top speed. Hull went at top speed but couldn't do everything. The physical aspect is absent from Gretzky's game. Orr would do everything, and do it at top speed. He's the perfect hockey player."
Tell your dad to compare Bobby Orr's three straight Hart Trophies to Wayne Gretzky's eight straight Hart Trophies. Gretzky was better in my book even if he couldn't throw a big hit.joe_shannon_1983 said:
If Gretzky was forced to retire after 9 season like Orr did, everyone would be saying the same thing about Wayne.
If you listen to the nitwits who have invaded the NHL forum (we know who they are), you'll hear people say "Bobby Orr would be an average defenceman in today's NHL" or "Bobby Orr would be a top 10 defenceman in today's NHL."
Of course, those of us who know anything about the game know better than that. He's unquestionably the best defenceman ever to lace on skates. And IMO, he's the best player to ever lace up skates, from the perspective of how he actually PLAYED THE GAME. Not based on awards or stats, but actual performance. Nobody has ever excelled at or dominated all aspects of the game like Bobby Orr. Gretzky and Howe had better careers due to their longevity, but Orr was the better player.
And nobody has ever changed the way the game is played like Bobby Orr. Before his time, defencemen rarely joined the rush. There were many highly-skilled rearguards who would have piled up the points if they were allowed to join the rush, but they weren't. That changed with Bobby Orr's arrival. The scope of the defenceman position changed because of Bobby Orr.
Of course, those of us who know anything about the game know better than that. He's unquestionably the best defenceman ever to lace on skates. And IMO, he's the best player to ever lace up skates, from the perspective of how he actually PLAYED THE GAME. Not based on awards or stats, but actual performance. Nobody has ever excelled at or dominated all aspects of the game like Bobby Orr. Gretzky and Howe had better careers due to their longevity, but Orr was the better player.
And nobody has ever changed the way the game is played like Bobby Orr. Before his time, defencemen rarely joined the rush. There were many highly-skilled rearguards who would have piled up the points if they were allowed to join the rush, but they weren't. That changed with Bobby Orr's arrival. The scope of the defenceman position changed because of Bobby Orr.
hockeyfan125
Registered User
- Jul 10, 2004
- 20,017
- 0
I know it sounds cliche and such.. but imagine Bobby teeing one up with one of the new one-piece sticks... his favourite move of mine (and one they showed in that video) is those spinorama's he used to do on the PP at the point, and then move in and shoot in the slot.
PurpleShamrock
Registered User
It's tough to compare Orr to Gretzky, really. Not only did they play different positions in different eras, but they approached the game with completely different M.O.'s. Orr's game was a game of speed, mobility and puck control, while Gretzky's attack was subtler. As has been pointed out countless times before, he just seemed to have that uncanny sixth sense which told him where the puck was going to be a few seconds before the fact. Gretzky also seemed to have a knack for knowing exactly where on the ice a teammate was going to be, and when. I've heard people make some very articulate and compelling cases made for both -- and then again, there are those who would take Gordie Howe over either of them. All in all, the three of them are probably numbers 1, 1A and 1B; if you're building a team from scratch, obviously you couldn't go wrong by starting with any one of them. As for me personally? I would choose Orr for his great offense and great defense -- but then, I'm admittedly a bit biased. 
David Puddy
Registered User
I couldn't agree with you more. His athleticism would make him the best in the game today.God Bless Canada said:
If a clone of Bobby Orr was born in 1988, he would have the benefit of the original Bobby Orr's impact on the position. He would be better than the original Bobby Orr because of that. He would also have the latest in training, nutrition and, as jtuzzi mentioned, equipment. Forget the new types of sticks; imagine what a 21 year old Bobby Orr could do with the latest skate technology.
Had Gretzky retired after nine NHL seasons, his numbers would look like this:albertGQ said:
Code:
[U] GP G A PTS PIM[/U]
696 583 1,086 1,669 3237 First All-Star Teams
1 Second All-Star Team
2 Conny Smythe Awards
5 Lester B. Pearson Awards
7 Art Ross Trophies
David Puddy
Registered User
Gretzky was the chessmaster who could see several moves ahead when others could only see one move ahead.PurpleShamrock said:
Any hockey club would be blessed to have either of these two in their very respected primes.
Yikes....
gang I didn't put this up to re-do the Orr vs. Gretzky vs. Howe thing.
It truly was my attempt to get info. to those less fortunate than me. I say this because I have been a diehard since the mid 60s....I've seen 'em come and go.
It is difficult to express just what a player Orr was. I figured that having his peers, guys that REALLY know the game, would have some value to those that often ask me.
Gretzky and Howe...GREAT...GREAT players in their own right for different reasons. The best of all ?
Who knows ?
The best I've seen, is Orr. But , that is me and the great thing about sport. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Anyway, didn't mean to open a hornets nest here. Just wanted to pass along ifo..
gang I didn't put this up to re-do the Orr vs. Gretzky vs. Howe thing.
It truly was my attempt to get info. to those less fortunate than me. I say this because I have been a diehard since the mid 60s....I've seen 'em come and go.
It is difficult to express just what a player Orr was. I figured that having his peers, guys that REALLY know the game, would have some value to those that often ask me.
Gretzky and Howe...GREAT...GREAT players in their own right for different reasons. The best of all ?
Who knows ?
The best I've seen, is Orr. But , that is me and the great thing about sport. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Anyway, didn't mean to open a hornets nest here. Just wanted to pass along ifo..
PurpleShamrock
Registered User
God Bless Canada said:
I've heard that platitude as well; people have also said that about Babe Ruth. Personally, I'm with Puddy on this one: Given Orr's raw talent, I frankly see no reason to believe that he wouldn't have dominated today's game, given that he would have benefitted from the same advances in training, nutrition and medicine that today's players enjoy. Of course, when everything is said and done, the hypothesis is speculative and moot, because obviously there's no way it can be either proven or disproven.
Gee Wally said:
I wish there were more Orr highlight reels and not just that little Legends of Hockey bit.
Somebody needs to upload that classic VHS, the Best of Bobby Orr...
I recognize that Gretzky was incredible, and I'm not taking anything away from him.
But for the type of scoring, speed, physicality, and innovation that Orr's game provided, he is, for my money, the greatest player of all time.
his line of 270-645--915 in 657 games would be impressive for a forward. but orr was a defenseman who would drop the gloves with anyone and then go pop in two goals and add a pair of assists. orr was the quintessential hockey player. no one has ever or will ever play the game like bobby orr. orr was a competitor, a gentleman, and an ambassador of the game.
But for the type of scoring, speed, physicality, and innovation that Orr's game provided, he is, for my money, the greatest player of all time.
his line of 270-645--915 in 657 games would be impressive for a forward. but orr was a defenseman who would drop the gloves with anyone and then go pop in two goals and add a pair of assists. orr was the quintessential hockey player. no one has ever or will ever play the game like bobby orr. orr was a competitor, a gentleman, and an ambassador of the game.
Sens Rule
Registered User
- Sep 22, 2005
- 21,251
- 74
PurpleShamrock said:
Bobby Orr would dominate the game today if he had the same training, nutrition and such that he did have. He wouldn't need modern training habits to be dominant. You could slide him into a time machine at age 22 and move him to today and he is by far the best defenceman in the NHL.
This is my argument.....in an attempt to "prove" that Orr would be dominant in today's NHL. Great players remain great players until the end of their careers or until they are in their late 30's or 40. I am talking truly great players. Denis Potvin was a top defenceman as a rookie and the season he retired. Bourque was a first team All-Star as a rookie in 1980 and in his final year 2001. Chelios was a first team ALL Star in 2002 at age 40. Stevens was dominant as a rookie and in his last season. Gordie Howe was dominant in the late 1940's and was still in the top 3 in scoring in 1969 when he was past 40 years old. Great players remain great players. They transend era's. Howe started his career in 1945/46 an NHL that played 60 games. The top goalie was Bill Durnan. Max Bentley was the leading scorer, Milt Schmidt, Turn Broda, Syl Apps were still playing and still top players. In 1969 he was the third person to get 100 points. In 1970 he was a first team All-Star. In 1971 his last season before his first retirement he was still a top player and there were now 14 teams. Players like Gilbert Perrault, Bobby Clarke, Phil Esposito, Bobby Orr a complete generation of stars were some of the great players of the time. Ken Dryden, Tony Esposito, Bernie Parent were some of the top goalies.
Howe played through as a true top player in the league (Not Counting his WHA and 79/80 NHL return) eras where the top goalies were Durnan, Broda, Brimsek. And when Sawchuk, Hall, Plante and Parent, Dryden, Esposito. And then if you count 79-80. Liut, Billy Smith.
Orr most certainly could play well in the current era. If not for his knee injuries he may well have played until 1985 or even 1990. Bourque played against Gordie Howe, Bobby Hull, Phil Esposito, Perrault, Tony Esposito, Trottier, Sittler, Shutt. And he also played against Havlat, Richards, Visnovsky, Elias, Brodeur, Hossa.
People who think that this era is so much different than other eras or that players of the recent past could not dominate this era don't understand that Great Players dominate any era. This is proven as the best players dominate cross hockey eras.
Howe (reportedly) opened beer bottles with his teeth on train rides after games between Detroit and Montreal. That kind of training allowed him to play 32 years of professional hockey. Gretzky could (reportedly) not even bench press his weight even one time early in his career when he was the top scorer in the NHL. He played 20 seasons and was second team All-Star his second last season.
One last example. Henri Richard won the Stanley cup in 1955-56 with Rocket Richard, Beliveau, Harvey, Olmstead, Geoffrion, Plante. He won in 72/73 with Lafleur, Dryden, Lemaire, Shutt, Robinson, Serge Savard, Lapointe, Cournoyer. He was an effective and important player on both Cup teams.
Snap Wilson
Registered User
- Sep 14, 2003
- 5,838
- 0
Orr was so good that, watching him, I knew thirty-five years later that a bunch of old-timers would gather around and talk about him while playing sentimental music and showing grainy footage. Of course, I thought they would do the same thing for Gilles Marotte. What was wrong with Gilles, huh? He was a good player. And when do we start talking about Dallas Smith, goddamnit. Freakin' old-timers.
My long departed grandfather used to go see Howie Morenz at the Forum,then the Rocket, and Howe, and all the other greats from the original six.Along came Beliveau and Boomer and Hull, and hockey had another shot of excitement.No player ever moved him the way that Bobby Orr did.He became a fan of hockey once more after seeing his brilliance, and for me, I loathed hearing all that gushing talk.Bobby was a Bruin, and Hab fans hate the Bruins.
On TV, Orr was a force.He took the puck and just..took off, and was the most exciting skater of his era.He wasn't just quick, but he had power, and I would see him pull away from checkers with supreme elegance.He had a hard,low and accurate shot, and he just dominated hockey.I saw him live twice, and was very disappointed,but later read that he never played at his best in the Forum.I'm glad he didn't.
He is easily the best player I've ever seen.He was the most enjoyable talent to watch,which is something I could never say about Gretzky.Lemieux,Lafleur and Jagr have all had quality to pull you out of your seat and keep you mezmerized,but even they are at a level below Orr.
On TV, Orr was a force.He took the puck and just..took off, and was the most exciting skater of his era.He wasn't just quick, but he had power, and I would see him pull away from checkers with supreme elegance.He had a hard,low and accurate shot, and he just dominated hockey.I saw him live twice, and was very disappointed,but later read that he never played at his best in the Forum.I'm glad he didn't.
He is easily the best player I've ever seen.He was the most enjoyable talent to watch,which is something I could never say about Gretzky.Lemieux,Lafleur and Jagr have all had quality to pull you out of your seat and keep you mezmerized,but even they are at a level below Orr.
Trottier
Very Random
Gee Wally said:
Not your fault one bit. The spirit in which this thread was intended was not lost on all of us.
Unfortunately, there are some here incapable of simply appreciating greatness for what it is...without having to run to fantasy league-like comparisons.
albertGQ said:
Yep, that's it. Orr's legend is simply a product of his short career.
Let me guess: born in the 80s?
Go back to school. And try gaining a modicum of respect, knowledge, and appreciation for that which came before you.
One familiar with Bobby Orr would never make such an asinine comment.
Northern Dancer
The future ain't what it used to be.
There is a film clip (Gee Wally has seen it I believe) where Bobby Orr almost kills a 2 minute penalty all by himself. They could not get the puck off him. And at one stage he dropped one of his gloves, he did an entire loop of the ice and came back to pick up his glove and he still had the puck. He eventually scored a short-handed goal after a few laps.
In the 1976 Canada Cup, he was the best player on the ice despite both kness being totally shot.
Those of you that never saw him play really missed something and should NOT comment
In the 1976 Canada Cup, he was the best player on the ice despite both kness being totally shot.
Those of you that never saw him play really missed something and should NOT comment
I have a collection of DVD's of Orr games that I bought on ebay. Watched them endlessly and really got to see his game. The amount of times he would take control of the puck in his zone and take off to mastermind a play on the other side is unbelievable. A defenseman that would do it half as much nowadays would be a rockstar, and he did it with ease and regularity. The quarterback, offensive leader and official puckstripper.
In order for any defenseman to rack up crazy points, like he did, they would have to go to the net constantly, non stop and that's what he did. Not even forwards these days produce as much as Orr did in the 70's... a machine he was. Too bad we don't see such a guy capable of doing half as much anymore. They don't have that cool, confidence with the puck, they just shoot it out blindly and in fear all the time as if the coach would give them a whipping if they held on to it for too long.
He had so many tricks, one of many that I like was the way he would shift his ankle, while on a rush at the opposing blue line, go through a hole and beat three guys at once to find himself completely in the open. Magical.
The Gretzer was a great passer but wasn't the best skater or shooter and his game didn't take up the hole ice surface from one end to the other... so not as spectacular to watch.
In order for any defenseman to rack up crazy points, like he did, they would have to go to the net constantly, non stop and that's what he did. Not even forwards these days produce as much as Orr did in the 70's... a machine he was. Too bad we don't see such a guy capable of doing half as much anymore. They don't have that cool, confidence with the puck, they just shoot it out blindly and in fear all the time as if the coach would give them a whipping if they held on to it for too long.
He had so many tricks, one of many that I like was the way he would shift his ankle, while on a rush at the opposing blue line, go through a hole and beat three guys at once to find himself completely in the open. Magical.
The Gretzer was a great passer but wasn't the best skater or shooter and his game didn't take up the hole ice surface from one end to the other... so not as spectacular to watch.
Gerry4001 said:I have a collection of DVD's of Orr games that I bought on ebay. Watched them endlessly and really got to see his game. The amount of times he would take control of the puck in his zone and take off to mastermind a play on the other side is unbelievable. A defenseman that would do it half as much nowadays would be a rockstar, and he did it with ease and regularity. The quarterback, offensive leader and official puckstripper.
In order for any defenseman to rack up crazy points, like he did, they would have to go to the net constantly, non stop and that's what he did. Not even forwards these days produce as much as Orr did in the 70's... a machine he was. Too bad we don't see such a guy capable of doing half as much anymore. They don't have that cool, confidence with the puck, they just shoot it out blindly and in fear all the time as if the coach would give them a whipping if they held on to it for too long.
He had so many tricks, one of many that I like was the way he would shift his ankle, while on a rush at the opposing blue line, go through a hole and beat three guys at once to find himself completely in the open. Magical.
The Gretzer was a great passer but wasn't the best skater or shooter and his game didn't take up the hole ice surface from one end to the other... so not as spectacular to watch.
I respect your opinion and if anyone says Orr was better than Gretzky, although I disagree, I can understand.
However, I will take Wayne's slapshot over Bob's slapshot any day of the week and twice on Sunday...
Ad
Upcoming events
-
Stanley Cup 2024 Stanley Cup Champion - ONLY BET ONE TEAMWagers: 13Staked: $16,904.00Event closes- Updated:
-
-
-
Series Winner Boston Bruins vs Toronto Maple LeafsWagers: 8Staked: $3,310.00Event closes
- Updated:
-