How good is Toews
- Thread starter BoLIEVE
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YoSoyLalo
me reading HF
ViktorBaeArvidsson
Greenville Swamp Rabbits fan lol
RememberTheRoar
“I’m not as worried about the 5-on-5 scoring.”
Second line centers score between 40-55 points. Toews is at 49, and on pace for 57.
He also shuts down opposing top players. Toews is producing like a high-end 2C that can be elite defensively.
I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion he's a 3C.
Trap Jesus
Registered User
- Feb 13, 2012
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Good bottom 6 glue guy. Versatile, gives a good effort, and can even chip in some offense. Definitely the type of player you can win with (provided they're not making $10.5 million).
RememberTheRoar
“I’m not as worried about the 5-on-5 scoring.”
How do you come to this conclusion?
20 goals and 50 points is "some offense", and production you'd expect from a bottom 6 guy?
EdJovanovski
#RempeForCalder
ColbyChaos
Marty Snoozeman's Father
Dont expect any intelligent replies here when the posters think 50-70 pts is bottom 6 production
biturbo19
Registered User
- Jul 13, 2010
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Solid #1C still. Albeit, on the lower end of that spectrum in offensive production. But he can do that while playing a matchup role, and often without 1st line calibre linemates.
His contract may be paying him like an elite #1C, which he is not...but people need to do a better job divorcing that disastrous contract, from what Toews still is as a player.
His contract may be paying him like an elite #1C, which he is not...but people need to do a better job divorcing that disastrous contract, from what Toews still is as a player.
RememberTheRoar
“I’m not as worried about the 5-on-5 scoring.”
To be fair, Toews hasn’t been a roughly 70 point player since the 13-14 season. But your point stands on the 50+ point player.
Yea I don't get it either. I'm thinking he might be joking because usually I appreciate his analysis. Toews is still an elite possession player scoring even better than what Bergeron did last year with much better linemates. The difference in their defensive games is not enough to call one an elite center and the other a bottom 6 player. Toews has regressed but it still a low end 1C, high end 2C who should be making closer to 6.5
IMO low end 1C or high end 2C. There should be zero votes for bottom 6 here.
CallMeShaft
Calder Bedard Fan
- Apr 14, 2014
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Right now he's a lower end 1C. The one thing people don't seem to fully realize is that most 1Cs play with the best wingers on a team. Toews has been playing with Kane for the last two or so weeks and he's producing at a better than PPG rate. Outside of these past few weeks, however, his best winger this season has been Saad who's never gotten to 55pts in a season.
I look at a guy like Bergeron. Now Bergeron is likely a better player right now then Toews. However, PB has Marchand and Pastrnak as his main linemates. Both of those guys are at least at a PPG pace this season and the worst of the two last year, Pastrnak, had 70pts in 75 games. Again, Bergeron is likely a better player than Toews, but it's a fair assumption that Bergeron isn't putting up near as many points if he had the linemates Toews has had for most of this year.
Toews might not be good enough to be the guy on a line for driving offense, but there are so many other 1Cs that are in the same type of boat, having to play with that team's best winger to create a legit 1st line. Keep him with Kane and someone like Saad at LW for a season and his numbers will absolutely jump up to the mid-to-high sixties while still providing good, but not quite Selke level defense.
I look at a guy like Bergeron. Now Bergeron is likely a better player right now then Toews. However, PB has Marchand and Pastrnak as his main linemates. Both of those guys are at least at a PPG pace this season and the worst of the two last year, Pastrnak, had 70pts in 75 games. Again, Bergeron is likely a better player than Toews, but it's a fair assumption that Bergeron isn't putting up near as many points if he had the linemates Toews has had for most of this year.
Toews might not be good enough to be the guy on a line for driving offense, but there are so many other 1Cs that are in the same type of boat, having to play with that team's best winger to create a legit 1st line. Keep him with Kane and someone like Saad at LW for a season and his numbers will absolutely jump up to the mid-to-high sixties while still providing good, but not quite Selke level defense.
GreatGonzo
Surrounded by Snowflakes
There’s a fat gap between 50 and 70 points, especially when a player hasn’t hit 70 points in 8 years and can barely hit 60 points....
ColbyChaos
Marty Snoozeman's Father
There were multiple seasons where he finished with 68 or 69 (nice) pts while missing a decent chunk of time. Finishing at 68 pts while only playing 70 or so games in a given season should earn the benefit of the doubt that he would get at the very least 2 pts in those 12 games he missed.
Dick Sledge
The Tactleneck
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Deficient Mode
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libertarian
Registered User
Agree. Getting 10.5 m a year make his contract one of the worst in the league. The Hawks are screwed for the length of his contract.
GreatGonzo
Surrounded by Snowflakes
Yes, but he hit 70 point one time, 8 years ago and hasn’t come close in 4 years. Any way you spin it, calling him anywhere near 70 points doesn’t work.
50-70 is not only a very vague and general way of judging ones production(because the difference between 50 points and 70 points is huge) but also cushions this idea that he is better than he actually is. Keeping his legacy “safe” by romanticizing his offense pretty much proves what everyone complains about the most.
By the way, he missed 6 games twice while hitting 68 points, not 12. Could he have hit 70 if he played 82? Sure, but he didn’t.
