How freakin dissapointed should I be?

[usiel]

Why anyone but the caps? Well, lets start with the fact that your owner is an idiot. He foolishly spends tons of money on players, then realizes what a bozo he was and basically gives them away. Also, he punched a fan. Then there's the fact that you had a team of all-stars THIS YEAR. Jagr, Lang, Bondra, Gonchar, and Kolzig are all-star material. You should not have been one of the worst teams. When your team underacheived, you gave away your players, called up multiple minor leaguers, and proceeded to lose many games. Of course, being a penguin fan, there is the whole rivalry, "i hate the caps," factor, I'll admit. Not to mention Ovechkin will be lost in Washington, who, in my opinion, has very few loyal fans, evident by the 50% penguin fans in the MCI center, even when the caps were good. Don't take this to mean that there are no loyal fans, because I know that is not true. Just a few of many reasons that I say "anyone but the Caps."

Well at least get your facts straight... Leonsis pushed a fan (not punched) when that fan shoved a sign in his face, heh.

He traded for the best player in the world at the time for three prospects that still haven't made an impact in the NHL. He definitely rolled the dice but before that time the Caps were known as the team that would never spend the money or roll the dice on a big acquistion. Of course the gamble failed but at least the man tried.

Washington area is definitely Redskins land but there are a lot of people that follow hockey here. Not as rabid as fans (in a good way) as do other places do like Pitt/boston/toronto, etc., but there are still a lot of caps fans in DC.

 

[Chimaera]

Well at least get your facts straight... Leonsis pushed a fan (not punched) when that fan shoved a sign in his face, heh.

He traded for the best player in the world at the time for three prospects that still haven't made an impact in the NHL. He definitely rolled the dice but before that time the Caps were known as the team that would never spend the money or roll the dice on a big acquistion. Of course the gamble failed but at least the man tried.

Washington area is definitely Redskins land but there are a lot of people that follow hockey here. Not as rabid as fans (in a good way) as do other places do like Pitt/boston/toronto, etc., but there are still a lot of caps fans in DC.

actually choked/pushed. But who's counting.


Either way. The return the Caps got was decent. And all of this has been beat into the ground mutiple times now.


But... I'll say it one more time for those of you who are slow on the uptake.

If a team is losing badly, underachieving and has an extremely high salary.. and you've already reworked the coaching staff, but still no change. What are your options?

Sink another 10-15 million in it to try and patch up an already sinking ship?

Or toss things overboard and try to start anew.


And that's what happened.

 

[usiel]

hell it was only a *friendly* choke between owner and season ticket holder!!

 

[GodZillaAteMyZamboni]

Why anyone but the caps? Well, lets start with the fact that your owner is an idiot. He foolishly spends tons of money on players....

Tons of money? The Caps were around 9th or 10th in total salary. Not far from right smack in the middle of the pack.

Also, he punched a fan.

Yes he did. Not much defense there I guess, but no one knows what the real situation was.

Then there's the fact that you had a team of all-stars THIS YEAR. Jagr, Lang, Bondra, Gonchar, and Kolzig are all-star material. You should not have been one of the worst teams.

Sort of like when the Pens had Lemieux, Kovalev, Straka, Tarnstrom, Hedberg and finished next to last?

When your team underacheived, you gave away your players, called up multiple minor leaguers, and proceeded to lose many games.

The Caps lost many games before the trades, and arguably played better after. They were behind the Pens in the standings for much of the year. It was only a collossal, near record-breaking collapse by the pens that allowed the Caps to pass them.

Of course, being a penguin fan, there is the whole rivalry, "i hate the caps," factor, I'll admit. Not to mention Ovechkin will be lost in Washington, who, in my opinion, has very few loyal fans,

Why have the Caps outdrawn the Pens every season for the last 3?

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Sort of like when the Pens had Lemieux, Kovalev, Straka, Tarnstrom, Hedberg and finished next to last?

Next to last would be last year. Kovalev was traded at the mid-way point of the season, Straka was out almost the entire year, and you'd be the first person to ever consider Hedberg a star. Tarnstrom is 100 times better this year than he was last year.

So that really leaves Lemieux...

The reason the Pens finished 29th last year: Ian Moran, Hans Jonsson, Jamie Pushor, Janne Laukkanen(while he was here).

 

[GodZillaAteMyZamboni]

Next to last would be last year. Kovalev was traded at the mid-way point of the season, Straka was out almost the entire year, and you'd be the first person to ever consider Hedberg a star. Tarnstrom is 100 times better this year than he was last year.

So that really leaves Lemieux...

The reason the Pens finished 29th last year: Ian Moran, Hans Jonsson, Jamie Pushor, Janne Laukkanen(while he was here).

If I remember corectly, Tarnstrom was leading the league in scoring for defensman going into January. His +/- was way better last year. Straka played 60 games, Kovy played 54.
Link

I agree 100% with your reasoning for why the Pens finished bad last year. I will also extend that to the Caps.

Reason why the Caps were so bad: Kwiatkowski, Doig, Boumedienne, Berry, Gruden, Rohloff.

 

[schultjr]

There is a difference between the penguins situation and the caps situation, however. When the pens unloaded those players, it was because we knew that we would not be able to resign them. The caps unloaded players that they signed to large contracts themselves. The caps gave up, the pens had no choice. If they let kovalev and jagr stay around until the end of their contracts, there would be not return for them. Also, Leonis (sp?) has the resources to sign these players, the pens don't. Whoever said that the caps salary ranking 9th is close to the middle should do some math. That is in the top 3rd of the league, a salary that should be a playoff salary. The pens salary if I remember is in the bottom 5. The Pens have been rebuilding for 3 years, much the same as the other lottery teams. The caps started rebuilding with 20 games left in the season, and BAM, they have their franchise player. That makes me a bit envious and a bit angry. The Pens have been looking for an all-star type player for 3 years now. The caps had these types of players (lang was leading the league in scoring this year), they get rid of them, and they get a franchise player back right away. This just does not seem fair to me. So, yes, anyone but the caps would have been better. Oh, and whoever pointed to the Caps attendance being larger than the Pens attendance the last couple of seasons, congratulations, your playoff team had higher attendance than a team who has been bad the last couple of years, not to mention is a much smaller city. I don't hear many fans chanting "let's go caps" at the mellon arena. Nearly every capitals game with the pens results in a "let's go pens" chant.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

There is a difference between the penguins situation and the caps situation, however. When the pens unloaded those players, it was because we knew that we would not be able to resign them. The caps unloaded players that they signed to large contracts themselves. The caps gave up, the pens had no choice. If they let kovalev and jagr stay around until the end of their contracts, there would be not return for them. Also, Leonis (sp?) has the resources to sign these players, the pens don't. Whoever said that the caps salary ranking 9th is close to the middle should do some math. That is in the top 3rd of the league, a salary that should be a playoff salary. The pens salary if I remember is in the bottom 5. The Pens have been rebuilding for 3 years, much the same as the other lottery teams. The caps started rebuilding with 20 games left in the season, and BAM, they have their franchise player. That makes me a bit envious and a bit angry. The Pens have been looking for an all-star type player for 3 years now. The caps had these types of players (lang was leading the league in scoring this year), they get rid of them, and they get a franchise player back right away. This just does not seem fair to me. So, yes, anyone but the caps would have been better.

Some very good points there, and pretty fair ones. That said the Lottery is not about fairness, not by the definition that you have above. Caps won it and I am over it. In fact coming in last was much more about Malkin than Ovechkin. I would have liked having Ovechkin. I am extremely happy with Malkin though.

 

[schultjr]

Some very good points there, and pretty fair ones. That said the Lottery is not about fairness, not by the definition that you have above. Caps won it and I am over it. In fact coming in last was much more about Malkin than Ovechkin. I would have liked having Ovechkin. I am extremely happy with Malkin though.

I am pleased with Malkin, too. I am just responding to the poster who asked why people are saying "anyone but the caps."

 

[Big McLargehuge]

If I remember corectly, Tarnstrom was leading the league in scoring for defensman going into January. His +/- was way better last year. Straka played 60 games, Kovy played 54.
Link

I agree 100% with your reasoning for why the Pens finished bad last year. I will also extend that to the Caps.

Reason why the Caps were so bad: Kwiatkowski, Doig, Boumedienne, Berry, Gruden, Rohloff.

Going into November perhaps. Dicky broke his foot in late November last year.

+/- has always been and always will be a useless stat, trust me when I say his defense has improved leaps and bounds this year.

Thanks for not tearing my post apart though, that's rare.

 

[GodZillaAteMyZamboni]

There is a difference between the penguins situation and the caps situation, however. When the pens unloaded those players, it was because we knew that we would not be able to resign them. The caps unloaded players that they signed to large contracts themselves. The caps gave up, the pens had no choice. If they let kovalev and jagr stay around until the end of their contracts, there would be not return for them. Also, Leonis (sp?) has the resources to sign these players, the pens don't. Whoever said that the caps salary ranking 9th is close to the middle should do some math. That is in the top 3rd of the league, a salary that should be a playoff salary. The pens salary if I remember is in the bottom 5.

If the Caps were 10th in salary, it isn't a far cry from 15th, which would be the middle of the league. They are much closer to the average salary than they are the highest. That's what I was refering to.

The Pens and Caps have arrived at similar situations by different paths, but I don't quite understand your post. On one hand, you seem to be saying that Leonsis is spending a ton. At the same time, you say he had the resources to keep his players but didn't. Would it have been better for him to spend more money for the same players that weren't winning?

The Pens have been rebuilding for 3 years, much the same as the other lottery teams. The caps started rebuilding with 20 games left in the season, and BAM, they have their franchise player. That makes me a bit envious and a bit angry. The Pens have been looking for an all-star type player for 3 years now. The caps had these types of players (lang was leading the league in scoring this year), they get rid of them, and they get a franchise player back right away. This just does not seem fair to me. So, yes, anyone but the caps would have been better.

A bit misleading. You are claiming the Pens have been looking for all-star player for 3 years, yet last year they had Lemieux, Straka, Kovy, Hedberg, and Tarnstorm. 2 years ago, you can add Lang to that list.

Oh, and whoever pointed to the Caps attendance being larger than the Pens attendance the last couple of seasons, congratulations, your playoff team had higher attendance than a team who has been bad the last couple of years, not to mention is a much smaller city. I don't hear many fans chanting "let's go caps" at the mellon arena. Nearly every capitals game with the pens results in a "let's go pens" chant.

The Caps and Pens both missed the playoffs in 01-02. The Caps still had a higher average attendance.

 

[Krom]

Hey everyone...

Ain't hockey great?

 

[GodZillaAteMyZamboni]

Going into November perhaps. Dicky broke his foot in late November last year.

+/- has always been and always will be a useless stat, trust me when I say his defense has improved leaps and bounds this year.

Thanks for not tearing my post apart though, that's rare.

I had forgotten that he got injured. I tend to value +/- more than some. You almost never see a marquee defensman with a bad +/-.

I love a good debate, and I love hockey talk. Being a fan is one thing, but looking at it objectively, I don't really see the Pens and the Caps as that different. There are different reasons for why they are where they are, but the choices each make in the next year or two will do a lot to tell us who will emerge better. Or they may be fighting it out for the next ten years, who knows?

There's all this talk about who was better last year or the year before, but the real barometer of each team may just be how Ovechkin and Malkin turn out.

 

[Grave77digger]

a Pens fan #1 most hated team? the Caps and will be for he next 10 years atleast

 

[Jaded-Fan]

a Pens fan #1 most hated team? the Caps and will be for he next 10 years atleast

Sorry, but I remember it always being the Rags . . . absolutely gotta hate them . . . or perhaps philadelphia, I remember going something like 10 or 15 years straight without a win in philly despite playing there 3 or 4 times a year . . . what reason would the Pens have to hate the Caps? If anything it would run the other way because of the history.

 

[KeepitinPitt]

Sorry, but I remember it always being the Rags . . . absolutely gotta hate them . . . or perhaps philadelphia, I remember going something like 10 or 15 years straight without a win in philly despite playing there 3 or 4 times a year . . . what reason would the Pens have to hate the Caps? If anything it would run the other way because of the history.

Honestly, the only reason I dislike the Caps is because of the fans that bombard the Official Website Forum and the ones on the Official Capitals website. I have never seen so many trolls in my life, however from what I have seen on the HF board they do not accurately represent Caps fans. Everyone I have seen on this website has been intelligent and reasonable.

PS: I don't see the point in analyzing the attendence of a team every year. Pointing out that the Caps have had better attendence in the last two years really means nothing, however I understand your point. Attendence comes and goes. I really don't have a point here other than being picky about every year really doesn't prove anything. I think Pittsburgh, despite it's attendence the past two years has a great fan base and I'm sure Washington does too. I've seen some rabid fans on here and I think trying to make an arguement over who has the better fans by pointing out attendence figures over the recent years is useless for any cities.

 

[SwOOsh*]

I don't know about the Official forums for the Pens but the stuff that goes on at the Caps boards is a disgrace really (save a few posters).

 

[usiel]

Honestly, the only reason I dislike the Caps is because of the fans that bombard the Official Website Forum and the ones on the Official Capitals website. I have never seen so many trolls in my life, however from what I have seen on the HF board they do not accurately represent Caps fans. Everyone I have seen on this website has been intelligent and reasonable.

PS: I don't see the point in analyzing the attendence of a team every year. Pointing out that the Caps have had better attendence in the last two years really means nothing, however I understand your point. Attendence comes and goes. I really don't have a point here other than being picky about every year really doesn't prove anything. I think Pittsburgh, despite it's attendence the past two years has a great fan base and I'm sure Washington does too. I've seen some rabid fans on here and I think trying to make an arguement over who has the better fans by pointing out attendence figures over the recent years is useless for any cities.

omg, the people of the official caps board are a frikin joke. Soooo many trolls that I get annoyed even viewing subject headings and my ignore list is 40+, heh. They need to get an iron man moderator there.

 

[Brad Tolliver]

There is a difference between the penguins situation and the caps situation, however. When the pens unloaded those players, it was because we knew that we would not be able to resign them. The caps unloaded players that they signed to large contracts themselves. The caps gave up, the pens had no choice. If they let kovalev and jagr stay around until the end of their contracts, there would be not return for them. Also, Leonis (sp?) has the resources to sign these players, the pens don't. Whoever said that the caps salary ranking 9th is close to the middle should do some math. That is in the top 3rd of the league, a salary that should be a playoff salary. The pens salary if I remember is in the bottom 5. The Pens have been rebuilding for 3 years, much the same as the other lottery teams. The caps started rebuilding with 20 games left in the season, and BAM, they have their franchise player. That makes me a bit envious and a bit angry. The Pens have been looking for an all-star type player for 3 years now. The caps had these types of players (lang was leading the league in scoring this year), they get rid of them, and they get a franchise player back right away. This just does not seem fair to me. So, yes, anyone but the caps would have been better. Oh, and whoever pointed to the Caps attendance being larger than the Pens attendance the last couple of seasons, congratulations, your playoff team had higher attendance than a team who has been bad the last couple of years, not to mention is a much smaller city. I don't hear many fans chanting "let's go caps" at the mellon arena. Nearly every capitals game with the pens results in a "let's go pens" chant.

Good lord you must be the biggest Rangers fan out there, since they have been "building" their team exactly the way you like it for the past few years, despite missing the playoffs everyone of those years. Guess what, if Lemieux didn't mind losing tons of money like Leonsis did, he could have kept all his stars too, instead of losing all of them without even getting a single 1st round pick in return. If you knew anything about your own team you would know the Pens got themselves a future all-star last year, some goalie by the name of Marc-Andre Fleury. Just because the Caps got Ovechkin doesn't mean they will be good right away, even these guys with franchise potential need time to develop. Nowdays there is no point building an entire team around one guy anyway, the successful teams are the ones with depth, which the Caps appear to have. Nobody prevented the Pens from picking up key pieces of the future in the draft the past three years.

 

[leafaholix*]

Ain't hockey great?

Hockey sucks!

 

[GKJ]

What happened 20 years ago happened 20 years ago, leave it there.

Most of us weren't even alive when that happened.

Craig Patrick and Mario Lemieux were. That year is one of the main reasons there is a lottery. Quebec did it a few times as well.

 

[Grave77digger]

Craig Patrick and Mario Lemieux were. That year is one of the main reasons there is a lottery. Quebec did it a few times as well.

Yawn

 

[roast]

Craig Patrick and Mario Lemieux were. That year is one of the main reasons there is a lottery. Quebec did it a few times as well.

Patrick was not the GM of the Pens during that period.

 

[schultjr]

Good lord you must be the biggest Rangers fan out there, since they have been "building" their team exactly the way you like it for the past few years, despite missing the playoffs everyone of those years. Guess what, if Lemieux didn't mind losing tons of money like Leonsis did, he could have kept all his stars too, instead of losing all of them without even getting a single 1st round pick in return. If you knew anything about your own team you would know the Pens got themselves a future all-star last year, some goalie by the name of Marc-Andre Fleury. Just because the Caps got Ovechkin doesn't mean they will be good right away, even these guys with franchise potential need time to develop. Nowdays there is no point building an entire team around one guy anyway, the successful teams are the ones with depth, which the Caps appear to have. Nobody prevented the Pens from picking up key pieces of the future in the draft the past three years.

Actually, i hate the rags. In fact, your assumption makes no sense. How have the Rags been building "the way I like it." They did the exact same things as the Caps this year, only worse. They had a team of all-stars, traded for more all-stars, were still horrible, and proceeded to trade away all-stars. If any team actually "tanked" the end of the season, it would be them. Lemieux never signed Jagr, Lang, etc... to huge contracts. He did not have a choice but to get something, no matter how small it seemed, for his players. Leonis signed these players and did not follow through on his commitment. Yes, the Pens got a goalie last year, but what is still missing on their team is an all-star forward. The Caps had at least 3 before they went on their firesale, and an all-star calibre goalie to boot. The Caps made stupid monetary decisions, went for a quick fix, and were rewarded. The Pens have been building for a few years now, never, that I can remember, made a big foolish signing, they have a bad season, but show heart down the stretch. Yet, the Caps win the lottery. It is almost the same as the Rangers winning the lottery, and we know how much most people hate them. Their situations are really similar, but the Rangers far more extreme.

 

[Mothra]

Actually, i hate the rags. In fact, your assumption makes no sense. How have the Rags been building "the way I like it." They did the exact same things as the Caps this year, only worse. They had a team of all-stars, traded for more all-stars, were still horrible, and proceeded to trade away all-stars. If any team actually "tanked" the end of the season, it would be them. Lemieux never signed Jagr, Lang, etc... to huge contracts. He did not have a choice but to get something, no matter how small it seemed, for his players. Leonis signed these players and did not follow through on his commitment. Yes, the Pens got a goalie last year, but what is still missing on their team is an all-star forward. The Caps had at least 3 before they went on their firesale, and an all-star calibre goalie to boot. The Caps made stupid monetary decisions, went for a quick fix, and were rewarded. The Pens have been building for a few years now, never, that I can remember, made a big foolish signing, they have a bad season, but show heart down the stretch. Yet, the Caps win the lottery. It is almost the same as the Rangers winning the lottery, and we know how much most people hate them. Their situations are really similar, but the Rangers far more extreme.

It sounds like what you are saying is.....if a team decides to dig deep into their pockets and pay for expensive players.....they can never go back and start over.

For years the Caps had hard working teams that were good enough to lose in the playoffs....the finally decided to make a run after an elite player so they would have "that guy" who could score the big goals.....they added to that after it didnt work.....and when that didnt work they decided it was a big mistake and they would start over......you blast them them for "not following through on his commitment"......something the Rangers have stuck to for over half a decade....without success......and you blast them too

Its pretty clear you just dont like these teams and you are letting that get in the way of seeing what were smart moves.....