How freakin dissapointed should I be?

[stardog]

We will agree to disagree . . .

Ovechkin is the real deal, best prospect to come out in twenty years . . . but all that I read from the scouts say that Malkin, who is seventeen and is just beginning to grow into his potential, has come on this year, and shown enough potential to be basically 1 (a) which is saying something in a year of Ovechkin . . .

"If I'm picking No. 1, I'd think about drafting Malkin," said one prominent director of scouting. "I'd probably chicken out in the end and take Ovechkin, but I'd think about it."

I could offer a dozen other quotes from scouting directors around the league (and those quotes have been posted here in other threads), all of whom have no agenda in the quoting as they have a snowball's chance in hell of drafting either player.

Show me a single quote otherwise, that says that Malkin is within a group of Barker, Schremp and company and has no upside to be a franchise player, merely a perhaps good one. Everything that I have read says otherwise.

Well there was the quote from Woodlief that said that Malkin is in the second tier of prospects (and by himself), but that would lead one to believe he is definatley not a 1a as you suggested.
Again, I think the drop off, while maybe not huge, is quite significant.

 

[EroCaps]

Daigle's problem was attitude and desire.

Two things that Ovechkin hardly lacks in.

If Ovechkin flops it'll be like Lindros and be only because of injuries.

Lindros had a "daddy" into his thirties.

If his stigma was exclusively injury related, he'd be getting the same adulation that LaFontaine and Neely get.

 

[Mothra]

Well there was the quote from Woodlief that said that Malkin is in the second tier of prospects (and by himself), but that would lead one to believe he is definatley not a 1a as you suggested.
Again, I think the drop off, while maybe not huge, is quite significant.

not to mention that Malkin is a center....and IMO a much more important position....and I'm a Capitals fan btw

who is to say which guy will be better....or if either really make an impact in the NHL....as excited as I am about the Caps having #1 overall....I am also worried about all the hype and comparisons to greats like 66....thats insane

 

[stardog]

I'm a bit disapointed to be a pens fan right now...there is some EXTREME whining coming from our side. Its 10x worse on the "offical" pens MB. But lets not forget we have Whitney, MAF, and probably Malkin. As i've said 10000000x before, this is good for the pens / caps rivarly. Both teams will be back in the playoffs soon enough and it will be good, exciting hockey. Both tems are somewhat stocked for the future, so lets sit back and enjoy it as opposed to saying you tanked, we tanked, use this goalie, etc. No one cares about Jagr or Lang anymore becuase both were traded. That is in the past. If there is one thing I know about Pittsburgh, living here all my life, it is that we all have the tendency to look in to the past for glory. Look at the Steelers. 1 superbowl apperance since 79, yet all we hear is "70's dynasty". If you get a chance to listen to mark madden on ESPN 1250, you should. He lives in the present, like very few of us do. Our roster is now Orpik, Lemieux, Whitney, Beech, MAF, fata, Surovy, Sivek, Aubin/Caron/Chiodo, etc. It is not Coffey, Recchi, Barrasso, Mullen, Trottier, Murphy, etc. Look foward to next season and embrace the new players. Malkin will be good, maybe not as good as A.O, but he will certainly be an important part of the pens rebuilidng efforts.

I am sorry that you are dissapointed that other Pens fans had thier hopes up for AO and are dissapointed in not getting him (myself included).
This has nothing to do with any of our other fine prospects, or any merit on the current team itself.
It is a single entity. Call it "whining" if you like. I have every right to be dissapointed and voice said dissapointment. As do others. We wanted Ovechkin badly. There was plenty of talk all year long about this on these very boards.

So I am sorry to dissapoint you, I just do not share your enthusiasm at getting Malkin compared to what could have been. I am excited that he will be a good player (probably), but that excitement is also not as great as the dissapointment and there is good reason to feel this way.
I also think that I am being alot more realistic than some Pens fans on Malkin's upside compared to that of Ovechkin's.

Another thing is that I dont get the sense that any of us are "living in the past" because of this discussion. If anything, the dissapointment has to do with the exact opposite: the future.
I don't get the whole Coffey, Wregget, Ulfie mentions in this thread.

And, for the record....Madden is an idiot. He isn't as knowledgeable when it comes to hockey as alot...and I mean ALOT of posters on these boards are. I take everything he says with a grain of salt when it comes to his "opinions".

Call it what you want, but it is very valid to feel this dissapointment IMO.

 

[Charge_Seven]

I'd be both disapointed, and relieved.

Ovechkin got all the press. He has been for 2 years now. Malkin got NONE. Malkin still gets NONE. People have expectations of Ovechkin, and he will likely not reach them, I mean, he's just been compared to Mario Lemieux has he not? That's unrealistic. On the other side of the coin however, you're getting a future star centre...remind me again what Lemieux plays, and what position will need to be replaced soon...oh yeah...Centre. I'd be happy picking Malkin. Dissapointed you're not getting the top guy...but honestly, you got the top guy in Fleury, now you can add a franchise centre, with Tarnstrom you've got a PP specialist...you'll likely have a top 10 pick next season (if there is hockey) and you can draft a true defencive prospect such as Phaneuf...you'll be in business for another twenty years with guys like that.

 

[roast]

Stardog,
that was not directed at you. you have every right to be disapointed, as am I. However others make it out to be like we had a divine right to 1st overall. Others keep bringing up the old playoffs as well as Jagr and Lang...all in the past. Thats all.

 

[schultjr]

Let's not forget, if there is a strike, the Pens will probably have a 50/50 chance of landing Crosby. Maybe not, but its a definate possibility. I don't think us Pens fans should be crying as much as we are. That being said, I am as disappointed as anyone. Anyone but the Caps!!! Argh.

 

[JDB3939]

and you can draft a true defencive prospect such as Phaneuf...

Or maybe Orpik perhaps?

 

[Jacob]

not to mention that Malkin is a center....and IMO a much more important position....

I agree, which is why I think Ovechkin will eventually be converted to center.

 

[Mothra]

I agree, which is why I think Ovechkin will eventually be converted to center.

That would be great if he can make the move......Does anyone know if he ever plays center?

I wont even pretend to have seen any of his games....only some video clips

 

[Team_Spirit]

I wachted the WJC and i'm also very high on Malkin . I think he's gonna be a good , big , playmaker center . Not a PF or a guy how crush the net . Plus he's almost 1year younger than Ovechkin .

I think he could be something like a Sundin or a Fedorov early in their carrers , then he'll developp into something of his own .

 

[Bluenote13]

What exactly does your statement have to do with his post, or my response?
Not a thing.

Cry me a river my friend

 

[shveik]

How exactly did those three NOT help the Pens? They made it to the EC finals and they made it to the playoffs every year with those three.

I think that is a very erronious statement IMO. Simply untrue.

Look at the context. The discussion wasn't only about the success on the ice, but about keeping the franchise in Pittsburgh. I just do not see Ovechkin affecting the second aspect of the Penguins woes. The financial problems *is* what holds Penguins back. They had the talent, they just had to ship it out.

By the way, they did not make the playoffs the last year with these three. They made it the year before that with Lemieux and Jagr still on board too.

 

[Charge_Seven]

Or maybe Orpik perhaps?

Phaneuf-like defender-Tarnstrom
Orpik-Jackman
Whitney-anybody

I'd suggest they still add another top level hitting defender, no matter what, with a guy who plays hard, there's a potential to lose him because of that. (suspensions, injuries...)

 

[Jacob]

The Pens don't have anybody in the system quite the pedigree that Orpik is, but guys like Welch and Malenkykh are known for a bruising style.

 

[SwOOsh*]

I don't think you should be that upset about not getting Ovechkin and being able to select Malkin. If Malkin is able to stay healthy he has great potential. Definetly the second best prospect in the draft, and I wouldn't say that there is that "much" of a difference between him and AO (there is, but not as huge as some say)

 

[stardog]

Look at the context. The discussion wasn't only about the success on the ice, but about keeping the franchise in Pittsburgh. I just do not see Ovechkin affecting the second aspect of the Penguins woes. The financial problems *is* what holds Penguins back. They had the talent, they just had to ship it out.

By the way, they did not make the playoffs the last year with these three. They made it the year before that with Lemieux and Jagr still on board too.

Wrong...every year with those THREE they made the playoffs.
After Lang left and Straka was injured and Jagr was gone, they lhey were a shell of a team.

But like I said, with those THREE, they had been quite succesful.

 

[X-SHARKIE]

I was trying to calm a fellow friend of mine who is a big Penguins fan...I to was hoping they would win the lottery but Malkin is a great consolation prize.

THe way I put it to him was.....

Evgeni Malkin is like hitting a home run with 2 men on base in baseball, it's huge...but Ovechkin is hitting a grand slam. Both are excelent options but it just so happens to be Ovechkin is more talented and a safer pick.

 

[Brad Tolliver]

Based on the logic of some Pens fans around here, who claim that the franchise is in superior shape in every shape and form comparing to the Caps, shouldn't a sorrier franchise like the Caps be more deserving of a better draft pick than the Pens who wouldn't need the help as much?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Based on the logic of some Pens fans around here, who claim that the franchise is in superior shape in every shape and form comparing to the Caps, shouldn't a sorrier franchise like the Caps be more deserving of a better draft pick than the Pens who wouldn't need the help as much?

Why get upset with the Pen's fans? We have been rebuilding for a few years now and finally are seeing some light at the end of the tunnel, and are happy at that possibility. Things seem to be breaking our way a bit. We have a potential franchise goalie who was the top pick last year, Fleury, we have some very good defensive possibilites developing and up to the Pens soon, including top five pic Ryan Whitney (and former top five pic Ric Jackman who seems to have finally come into top five form as an offensive defenseman - though 1/4 of a season is hardly a guarentee) . . add in Brooks Orpik who also seems on his way to being very good as a defensive defenseman in his first year . . . Ryan Malone on RW who gave a run for rookie of the year . . . now likely a top center Malkin who gave Ovechkin a run for his first pick money in some scouts writings that I have seen . . .and Mario is coming back next year, just announced two days ago. Finally, if the year is lost a 50/50 chance at Crosby with a guarentee of adding no worse than the number two pick again . . . add to it being fairly stacked in goal below Fleury (3 or 4 who could play in the NHL) . . . and to be honest that last quarter of the year our playing as well as almost any team has given hope that we would not have had if the losing had continued as it did 3/4 of the year . . . so it has not only been high picks developing, but lower ones developing . . .the Caps have done very well draft-wise and are in pretty good shape as well, their difficiencies are more on defense, while ours are forwards . . .together we could cobble together a hell of a team, but I do think that we may be closer than the Caps mostly because we have been rebuilding a bit longer.

 

[Brad Tolliver]

Why get upset with the Pen's fans? We have been rebuilding for a few years now and finally are seeing some light at the end of the tunnel, and are happy at that possibility. Things seem to be breaking our way a bit. We have a potential franchise goalie who was the top pick last year, Fleury, we have some very good defensive possibilites developing and up to the Pens soon, including top five pic Ryan Whitney (and former top five pic Ric Jackman who seems to have finally come into top five form as an offensive defenseman - though 1/4 of a season is hardly a guarentee) . . add in Brooks Orpik who also seems on his way to being very good as a defensive defenseman in his first year . . . Ryan Malone on RW who gave a run for rookie of the year . . . now likely a top center Malkin who gave Ovechkin a run for his first pick money in some scouts writings that I have seen . . .and Mario is coming back next year, just announced two days ago. Finally, if the year is lost a 50/50 chance at Crosby with a guarentee of adding no worse than the number two pick again . . . add to it being fairly stacked in goal below Fleury (3 or 4 who could play in the NHL) . . . and to be honest that last quarter of the year our playing as well as almost any team has given hope that we would not have had if the losing had continued as it did 3/4 of the year . . . so it has not only been high picks developing, but lower ones developing . . .the Caps have done very well draft-wise and are in pretty good shape as well, their difficiencies are more on defense, while ours are forwards . . .together we could cobble together a hell of a team, but I do think that we may be closer than the Caps mostly because we have been rebuilding a bit longer.

Hence why I said "some", as you obviously aren't in the group that I was referring to. It's the people that go around saying that the baby Pens are far superior than the baby Caps, but then go around and say that the Pens are more deserving of the top pick despite the fact that they spent all this time claiming that there is a team in need of more help.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Hence why I said "some", as you obviously aren't in the group that I was referring to. It's the people that go around saying that the baby Pens are far superior than the baby Caps, but then go around and say that the Pens are more deserving of the top pick despite the fact that they spent all this time claiming that there is a team in need of more help.

I have to admit that some fans of every team get way out of hand . . . goes with the territory . . .and thanks for not grouping me there

 

[graywolfe81]

What I don't understand is the, "Anything but the Caps," argument. Why? It wasn't enough that my beloved Caps were the Cubs/Red Sox on ice anytime they ran into Pittsburgh and held a 2-0 or 3-1 lead in a series? Not enough that my beloved Caps choked so bad that one poster actually got an avatar feature an emergency health caricature of a man choking in a Caps forum elsewhere.

Why would you hate the Caps? It just strikes me as ridiculous. As another poster said, the team that "appears" screwed is Chicago, both Pittsburgh and Washington are in pretty darn good position.

 

[leafaholix*]

Or maybe Orpik perhaps?

No, Orpik isn't as good a player as Phaneuf... and they're definately not similar players.

Phaneuf is a far better offensive player.

 

[schultjr]

What I don't understand is the, "Anything but the Caps," argument. Why? It wasn't enough that my beloved Caps were the Cubs/Red Sox on ice anytime they ran into Pittsburgh and held a 2-0 or 3-1 lead in a series? Not enough that my beloved Caps choked so bad that one poster actually got an avatar feature an emergency health caricature of a man choking in a Caps forum elsewhere.

Why would you hate the Caps? It just strikes me as ridiculous. As another poster said, the team that "appears" screwed is Chicago, both Pittsburgh and Washington are in pretty darn good position.

Why anyone but the caps? Well, lets start with the fact that your owner is an idiot. He foolishly spends tons of money on players, then realizes what a bozo he was and basically gives them away. Also, he punched a fan. Then there's the fact that you had a team of all-stars THIS YEAR. Jagr, Lang, Bondra, Gonchar, and Kolzig are all-star material. You should not have been one of the worst teams. When your team underacheived, you gave away your players, called up multiple minor leaguers, and proceeded to lose many games. Of course, being a penguin fan, there is the whole rivalry, "i hate the caps," factor, I'll admit. Not to mention Ovechkin will be lost in Washington, who, in my opinion, has very few loyal fans, evident by the 50% penguin fans in the MCI center, even when the caps were good. Don't take this to mean that there are no loyal fans, because I know that is not true. Just a few of many reasons that I say "anyone but the Caps."