Houston!!!!!!!!!

CHRDANHUTCH

Registered User
Mar 4, 2002
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Auburn, Maine
Les Alexander does not need to buy the Aeros - he already controls the building where they play. Alexander owns the Houston Rockets, would be the majority owner of any NHL team, and most importantly controls the Master Lease on the Toyota Center.

The Aeros would find themselves squeezed for dates behind both the Rockets and the new NHL team. There is nothing the Aeros could do if he decides to bring in an NHL team to the Toyota Center - I VERY much doubt that there is anything in the Aeros' lease agreement that would prevent it.

And as I said, an NHL team in Houston would significantly erode the fanbase of the Aeros as well as squeezing them for arena dates. The Wild would then either have to decide whether it would be better for the Aeros to continue to co-exist in Houston or move them to another city.

Yes the NHL "rectified the error of that relocation by creating the Wild" and as a result, the Minnesota Moose were pretty much forced out and moved to Winnipeg. I didn't see anyone back then decrying the fate of the Moose and the inconvenience to the Canucks. Why would an expansion/relocation to Houston be any different w.r.t. the Aeros.

Because the answer is already there where is there another arena for the Aeros or is Toyota Center like America West when the Coyotes first arrived in Arizona?
 

kdb209

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Jan 26, 2005
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Because the answer is already there where is there another arena for the Aeros or is Toyota Center like America West when the Coyotes first arrived in Arizona?
It doesn't matter one bit to Les Alexander or the NHL (other than perhaps the Wild) if there is another arena for the Aeros - it's not their problem. I do not know of any other arenas in Houston - the former Summit/Compaq Center has been converted into a mega church (Lakewood Church).

As I stated to start this conversation - the Aeros are a complete non-issue for any decision by Alexander to buy/relocate/submit an expansion bid for a team and a non-issue for the league to approve a sale/relocation/expansion. The Minnesota Moose were a non-issue when granting an expanion franchise to the Wild and the Phoenix Road Runners (IHL) were a non-issue in approving the move of the Jets to Phoenix - why would the Aeros be any different?

Are there any arenas that currently share an NHL and AHL team? - Philly has both, but the Phantoms play out of the old Spectrum.
 
Last edited:

CHRDANHUTCH

Registered User
Mar 4, 2002
35,232
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Auburn, Maine
It doesn't matter one bit to Les Alexander or the NHL (other than perhaps the Wild) if there is another arena for the Aeros - it's not their problem. I do not know of any other arenas in Houston - the former Summit/Compaq Center has been converted into a mega church (Lakewood Church).

As I stated to start this conversation - the Aeros are a complete non-issue for any decision by Alexander to buy/relocate/submit an expansion bid for a team and a non-issue for the league to approve a sale/relocation/expansion. The Minnesota Moose were a non-issue when granting an expanion franchise to the Wild and the Phoenix Road Runners (IHL) were a non-issue in approving the move of the Jets to Phoenix - why would the Aeros be any different?

Are there any arenas that currently share an NHL and AHL team? - Philly has both, but the Phantoms play out of the old Spectrum.

There doesn't need to be--Philly is under a corporate umbrella as is Toronto, kdb, but that's not the point here, why does Houston need to be an NHL Market when the Aeros have filled that void regardless of what league they've been, and Alexander has allowed them even before the sale to Minnesota Sports precludes any interest in Houston as an NHL Market, but realize the Spectrum may be demolished shortly.

In any event, Alexander may not see the need to add a hockey franchise to his portfolio when he has the monopoly in HOUSTON, whether it be the Toyota Center or not when he profits from the Aeros being there as a revenue source.
 

kdb209

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Jan 26, 2005
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There doesn't need to be--Philly is under a corporate umbrella as is Toronto, kdb, but that's not the point here, why does Houston need to be an NHL Market when the Aeros have filled that void regardless of what league they've been, and Alexander has allowed them even before the sale to Minnesota Sports precludes any interest in Houston as an NHL Market, but realize the Spectrum may be demolished shortly.

In any event, Alexander may not see the need to add a hockey franchise to his portfolio when he has the monopoly in HOUSTON, whether it be the Toyota Center or not when he profits from the Aeros being there as a revenue source.

"Why does Houston need to be an NHL Market when the Aeros have filled that void"? That is a decision to be made by Les Alexander and the League if and when there is a franchise sale/relocation or expansion and it will be a decision made on the merits of the market, arena, and ownership group - the presence/fate of the Aeros will not and should not have any impact on that decision. The presence of the Aeros in Houston has no direct benefit to the League and only a secondary one to Alexander (current lease revenues). The presence of an NHL team in Houston has a benefit to the league and a much greater benefit to Alexander.

"Alexander has allowed them even before the sale to Minnesota Sports precludes any interest in Houston as an NHL Market" ??? Just because Alexander has entered into a lease agreement with the Aeros does not bind him legally or ethically to do anything above and beyond the terms of the lease. Unless there is some clause in the Aeros lease granting then the exclusive rights to hockey at the Toyota Center then Alexander is perfectly free to bring in an NHL team as another tenant. As long as Alexander does not violate the terms of any lease agreement - ie provides the required number of open dates for scheduling - it will be up to the Wild to decide whether for the Aeros to remain in Houston or move elsewhere.

And as to "Alexander may not see the need to add a hockey franchise to his portfolio when he has the monopoly in HOUSTON, whether it be the Toyota Center or not when he profits from the Aeros being there as a revenue source." If he does not see the need, then this whole conversation has been a moot point. If he does (and he has expressed an interest in bringing an NHL team to Houston multiple times in the past), then the Aeros are an after thought - he will make significantly more money of off owning an NHL team (and getting all of their revenues) than by merely getting rent from the Aeros.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

Registered User
Mar 4, 2002
35,232
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Auburn, Maine
"Why does Houston need to be an NHL Market when the Aeros have filled that void"? That is a decision to be made by Les Alexander and the League if and when there is a franchise sale/relocation or expansion and it will be a decision made on the merits of the market, arena, and ownership group - the presence/fate of the Aeros will not and should not have any impact on that decision. The presence of the Aeros in Houston has no direct benefit to the League and only a secondary one to Alexander (current lease revenues). The presence of an NHL team in Houston has a benefit to the league and a much greater benefit to Alexander.

"Alexander has allowed them even before the sale to Minnesota Sports precludes any interest in Houston as an NHL Market" ??? Just because Alexander has entered into a lease agreement with the Aeros does not bind him legally or ethically to do anything above and beyond the terms of the lease. Unless there is some clause in the Aeros lease granting then the exclusive rights to hockey at the Toyota Center then Alexander is perfectly free to bring in an NHL team as another tenant. As long as Alexander does not violate the terms of any lease agreement - ie provides the required number of open dates for scheduling - it will be up to the Wild to decide whether for the Aeros to remain in Houston or move elsewhere.

And as to "Alexander may not see the need to add a hockey franchise to his portfolio when he has the monopoly in HOUSTON, whether it be the Toyota Center or not when he profits from the Aeros being there as a revenue source." If he does not see the need, then this whole conversation has been a moot point. If he does (and he has expressed an interest in bringing an NHL team to Houston multiple times in the past), then the Aeros are an after thought - he will make significantly more money of off owning an NHL team (and getting all of their revenues) than by merely getting rent from the Aeros.

kdb:

you keep making the wrong point, Alexander hasn't or won't pursue a hockey franchise otherwise he'd own one by now, wouldn't he? My point's been made because Alexander isn't Balsillie and that's the entire point as to why Houston isn't an NHL Market.
 

kdb209

Registered User
Jan 26, 2005
14,870
6
kdb:

you keep making the wrong point, Alexander hasn't or won't pursue a hockey franchise otherwise he'd own one by now, wouldn't he? My point's been made because Alexander isn't Balsillie and that's the entire point as to why Houston isn't an NHL Market.

No - I'm arguing the point that YOU brought up to start this conversation and that YOU continued to argue - the Aeros. You brought up the Aeros and claimed that they were somehow a major issue in any relocation/expansion to Houston, that doing so would "Antagonize the Wild" and doom "any possibility of a rivalry between Houston & Dallas, asking "why does Houston need to be an NHL Market when the Aeros have filled that void", and stating that "Alexander has allowed them [the Aeros] even before the sale to Minnesota Sports precludes any interest in Houston as an NHL Market".

CHRDANHUTCH said:
FissionFire said:
Houston would be the most attractive place IMO. They are a huge city with a new arena and an established hockey history (AHL team, WHA team that got Gordie Howe out of retirement). Add in the fact that they have alot of growth from northern relocation (especially Colorado, a great hockey region) and it just seems like a market primed to be tapped. Dallas is proof that hockey can not only succeed in that area, but be very profitable as well. If someone like Wang was looking to cut bait and run from New York, I think a huge market like Houston would be tops on his list.
The only problem in Houston is that the existing hockey franchise, Fission, is already majority owned by an NHL team in Minnesota, which rankles the Stars base since it was they who exited Minnesota to begin with, that's why rumors are saying the Stars want to be in Austin by the end of the decade, because there's no chance the Wild are moving the Aeros to any other market, look at the reaction for Minnesota fans when Norm Green moved to Dallas in 1993, and by the time the Wild were born, forcing the Moose to <gasp> Winnipeg.

CHRDANHUTCH said:
kdb209 said:
The Aero's would have little to no effect on a relocation/expansion to Houston.

A Houston team would be owned by Les Alexander who already controls the Toyota Center - either the Aeros would try to co-exist as a good chunk of their fanbase is cannibalized and their booking dates squeezed or they would eventually decide to move. Minnesota may vote against it because of the Aeros, but the other 29 owners really wouldn't give a damn - especially if they were pocketing a good chunk of expansion fees.
Would u want to Antagonize the Wild in Houston, kdb, therefore dooming any possibility of a rivalry between Houston & Dallas, then why are the Stars wanting their farm club in Austin as has been proposed, not to mention having San Antonio in the I-10 Market as well.

CHRDANHUTCH said:
kdb209 said:
Because the Wild have no god (or league) given right to Houston.

If a team wants to relocate to Houston (which would only happen if Les Alexander picked up a significant ownership stake) the league (or other 28 teams excluding the Wild) would not reject it because it would inconvenience the Aeros/Wild.

If there are plans for expansion and Les Alexander has the $$$'s, the league's selection committee is not going to choose based on the inconvenience to the Wild and the league (and the other 29 teams) would certainly approve it and gladly pocket Alexander's $$$.

Did the league worry about "antagonizing" the Canucks when they awarded an expansion franchise to the Wild and forced the Moose to move to Winnipeg?

And how does the Stars' potential move of their AHL team to Austin have anything to do with Houston or the Wild/Aeros?

And why would "antagonizing" the Wild doom "any possibility of a rivalry between Houston & Dallas"
SIMPLE POINT, kdb, when has Les Alexander even made a bid to buy the Aeros??????

why does he have an agreement for a team he has never owned play in his building whether it be the Summit, Compaq or the current Toyota Center.

who is the affiliate of the Moose, btw, kdb isn't it Vancouver, after filling the void of the Coyotes to Phoenix, then Glendale, look at the history why did Norm Green move to Dallas when he did, the NHL rectified the error of that relocation by creating the Wild.

CHRDANHUTCH said:
kdb209 said:
Les Alexander does not need to buy the Aeros - he already controls the building where they play. Alexander owns the Houston Rockets, would be the majority owner of any NHL team, and most importantly controls the Master Lease on the Toyota Center.

The Aeros would find themselves squeezed for dates behind both the Rockets and the new NHL team. There is nothing the Aeros could do if he decides to bring in an NHL team to the Toyota Center - I VERY much doubt that there is anything in the Aeros' lease agreement that would prevent it.

And as I said, an NHL team in Houston would significantly erode the fanbase of the Aeros as well as squeezing them for arena dates. The Wild would then either have to decide whether it would be better for the Aeros to continue to co-exist in Houston or move them to another city.

Yes the NHL "rectified the error of that relocation by creating the Wild" and as a result, the Minnesota Moose were pretty much forced out and moved to Winnipeg. I didn't see anyone back then decrying the fate of the Moose and the inconvenience to the Canucks. Why would an expansion/relocation to Houston be any different w.r.t. the Aeros.
Because the answer is already there where is there another arena for the Aeros or is Toyota Center like America West when the Coyotes first arrived in Arizona?

CHRDANHUTCH said:
kdb209 said:
It doesn't matter one bit to Les Alexander or the NHL (other than perhaps the Wild) if there is another arena for the Aeros - it's not their problem. I do not know of any other arenas in Houston - the former Summit/Compaq Center has been converted into a mega church (Lakewood Church).

As I stated to start this conversation - the Aeros are a complete non-issue for any decision by Alexander to buy/relocate/submit an expansion bid for a team and a non-issue for the league to approve a sale/relocation/expansion. The Minnesota Moose were a non-issue when granting an expanion franchise to the Wild and the Phoenix Road Runners (IHL) were a non-issue in approving the move of the Jets to Phoenix - why would the Aeros be any different?

Are there any arenas that currently share an NHL and AHL team? - Philly has both, but the Phantoms play out of the old Spectrum.
There doesn't need to be--Philly is under a corporate umbrella as is Toronto, kdb, but that's not the point here, why does Houston need to be an NHL Market when the Aeros have filled that void regardless of what league they've been, and Alexander has allowed them even before the sale to Minnesota Sports precludes any interest in Houston as an NHL Market, but realize the Spectrum may be demolished shortly.

In any event, Alexander may not see the need to add a hockey franchise to his portfolio when he has the monopoly in HOUSTON, whether it be the Toyota Center or not when he profits from the Aeros being there as a revenue source.

CHRDANHUTCH said:
kdb209 said:
"Why does Houston need to be an NHL Market when the Aeros have filled that void"? That is a decision to be made by Les Alexander and the League if and when there is a franchise sale/relocation or expansion and it will be a decision made on the merits of the market, arena, and ownership group - the presence/fate of the Aeros will not and should not have any impact on that decision. The presence of the Aeros in Houston has no direct benefit to the League and only a secondary one to Alexander (current lease revenues). The presence of an NHL team in Houston has a benefit to the league and a much greater benefit to Alexander.

"Alexander has allowed them even before the sale to Minnesota Sports precludes any interest in Houston as an NHL Market" ??? Just because Alexander has entered into a lease agreement with the Aeros does not bind him legally or ethically to do anything above and beyond the terms of the lease. Unless there is some clause in the Aeros lease granting then the exclusive rights to hockey at the Toyota Center then Alexander is perfectly free to bring in an NHL team as another tenant. As long as Alexander does not violate the terms of any lease agreement - ie provides the required number of open dates for scheduling - it will be up to the Wild to decide whether for the Aeros to remain in Houston or move elsewhere.

And as to "Alexander may not see the need to add a hockey franchise to his portfolio when he has the monopoly in HOUSTON, whether it be the Toyota Center or not when he profits from the Aeros being there as a revenue source." If he does not see the need, then this whole conversation has been a moot point. If he does (and he has expressed an interest in bringing an NHL team to Houston multiple times in the past), then the Aeros are an after thought - he will make significantly more money of off owning an NHL team (and getting all of their revenues) than by merely getting rent from the Aeros.
kdb:

you keep making the wrong point, Alexander hasn't or won't pursue a hockey franchise otherwise he'd own one by now, wouldn't he? My point's been made because Alexander isn't Balsillie and that's the entire point as to why Houston isn't an NHL Market.

You never argued your "right" point - "Alexander hasn't or won't pursue a hockey franchise otherwise he'd own one by now, wouldn't he?" until all your arguments concerning your Aeros fixation were shot down. Nice Try.

And as far as your "right" point - if you read back a page or two you will see that Alexander has pursued an NHL team (he came this close to buying/moving the Oilers in '97) and has publicly expressed an interest in bringing an NHL team (as recently as during the lockout). No, he wasn't involved during the whole Penguins and Predators politicized soap operas - maybe because they were just that. Well, you were right on one point - "Alexander isn't Balsillie".

I would be very surprised if Alexander does not submit a bid if & when there is expansion or in the less likely event that an unencumbered team becomes available for sale.
 

Ted Hoffman

The other Rick Zombo
Dec 15, 2002
28,859
8,113
you keep making the wrong point, Alexander hasn't or won't pursue a hockey franchise otherwise he'd own one by now, wouldn't he?
1. It's already been shown that Alexander previously pursued an NHL franchise.
2. If you saw a house listed at $150,000 would you rush to pay it to get it, or would you try to get it for less [or even better, on the cheap when the owner needs to sell ASAP]? If you saw a stock listed at $200, would you rush to pay that price or would you wait for it to fall back to $150 and then nab it for a 25% discount?

That is why Alexander doesn't own a franchise now - why pay top dollar now when you can get one at a discount down the road? It's called "being a smart businessman" - you don't go fork over top dollar unless there's no other way to get in the game and you're desperate to have a seat at the table with the rest of the big boys.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

Registered User
Mar 4, 2002
35,232
4,218
Auburn, Maine
1. It's already been shown that Alexander previously pursued an NHL franchise.
2. If you saw a house listed at $150,000 would you rush to pay it to get it, or would you try to get it for less [or even better, on the cheap when the owner needs to sell ASAP]? If you saw a stock listed at $200, would you rush to pay that price or would you wait for it to fall back to $150 and then nab it for a 25% discount?

That is why Alexander doesn't own a franchise now - why pay top dollar now when you can get one at a discount down the road? It's called "being a smart businessman" - you don't go fork over top dollar unless there's no other way to get in the game and you're desperate to have a seat at the table with the rest of the big boys.

AND Alexander doesn't want to alienate a potential Houston fanbase either as Balsillie has tried to do w/ Pittsburgh and then Nashville because he knows what he has w/ the Wild franchise that's been established and ingrained into Houston, either Irish, would u want to be blackballed the way Balsillie is. Remember how Bud Adams was crucified for moving the Oilers to Nashville, do u really want to see that repeated.
 

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