Houle vs Bergevin

Discussion in 'Montreal Canadiens' started by Bouboumaster, Apr 15, 2018.

?

Which is the worst GM in the Habs history?

  1. Réjean Houle

    48.4%
  2. Marc Bergevin

    50.0%
  3. Other

    1.6%
  1. Captain Subban

    Captain Subban Registered User

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    Actually it never would have got that far because Savard was trying to trade Roy for Nolan and Fiset when he got fired.
     
  2. ottawa

    ottawa Avatar of the Year*

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    I feel like there should be a "I'm under the age of 18" option.

    Houle should be winning this in a landslide.
     
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  3. ottawa

    ottawa Avatar of the Year*

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    Houle traded arguably the best goalie of all time (2nd best for me after Hasek).

    Not many goalies can carry a team, Price certainly can't...Roy could and did.
     
  4. ItzaGreat

    ItzaGreat Registered User

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    Roy had some decent teams in front of him.

    Heck, between the current line-up and the 93's line up, I take the 93 one in a heart-beat!

    Not taking anything away from Roy with that.
     
  5. ottawa

    ottawa Avatar of the Year*

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    By the sounds of your brutal comment, it sounds like you are. He's one of the 2 best goalies of all time, you don't trade him.
     
  6. ItzaGreat

    ItzaGreat Registered User

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    Nah I love him (he's my bay) , but seriously, give Price that 93 line up and I'm sure he at least gets us in the finals.
     
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  7. ottawa

    ottawa Avatar of the Year*

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    Roy's career is more than just the 93 finals you're focusing on so much.
     
  8. calder candidate

    calder candidate Registered User

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    Maybe it too far but I can’t remember anything good coming from Houle he is really the one dug a deep hole for the team, at lease MB had a few good move before fallin of the cliff and even than I think we are still in a better situation than we were withHoule...
     
  9. ItzaGreat

    ItzaGreat Registered User

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    The line-up between 86-93 was much better than what we have now.

    And that Col. line-up with Roy in there...wow...there's no describing it.

    Roy wasn't stuck with all the garbage from the other teams playing in front of him.
     
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  10. ottawa

    ottawa Avatar of the Year*

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    ok
     
  11. Lafleurs Guy

    Lafleurs Guy Global Moderator

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    I don't know man... But when you get compared to Houle you know it's bad.
     
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  12. Kriss E

    Kriss E Registered User

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    But you thought the money being exchanged wasn't part of it, except it was.
    Again, Houle had a mandate to cut spending. So he had to move money makers for cheaper ones or prospects. No doubt it remains a bad trade, but at least he was in a position where he had to move guys, which can lead to exactly this, bad trades.
    Bergevin had no mandate other than improve the team.
     
  13. Notabaguette

    Notabaguette Registered User

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    Houle made worse trades, and ruined the team for much longer.
     
  14. Mike8

    Mike8 Registered User

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    It wasn't that bad. Bellows was coming off 16 points in 41 games to Bureau's 14 in 48. Bellows was viewed as a good scoring winger, but on a team that had a good offense and when Bellows seemed to be slowing down significantly.

    Further, Bureau wasn't really a nothing-player. Sure, he wasn't an impact player, but he was a top faceoff man and, more importantly, a big body center when the East was loading up on big Cs. Bureau was solid defensively and the East was getting more defensive at the time, too.
     
  15. 417

    417 Registered User

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    It doesn't really matter lol it's a detail.

    The thread poll is about Houle vs Bergrvin


    If Houle's hands were tied, then the thread poll should be amended to reflect that.

    Otherwise, the trades Houle did and the trades Bergrvin did are going to have to be measured up against each other.

    I mean, money/contract was a factor the PK/Weber deal...his NTC was kicking in.

    I doubt you, I or anyone is going to 'cut him some slack' for making the deal.

    If Houle had a specific mandate...that's fine, it's really a minor detail, the majority of his trades were bad...and if he's not to blame for it, someone else is and that person's name should be the one in this poll then.
     
  16. Kriss E

    Kriss E Registered User

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    I am not cutting some slack to Houle...I mean..re-read the thread title. It`s about who is the worst GM. Neither of those guys are getting a pass here. They are both garbage.
    You said you doubted Habs saved much cash in the Turgeon vs Corson swap, I simply added the salary info on each players.

    We have no reason to believe the PK/Weber deal was about money, Habs are usually a cap spending team, there is no indication Molson wants to get rid of salaries. It's not the same, at all.

    Again, both are garbage, if you think Houle is worse, I mean, I'm not going to argue against that.
    I give the edge to Bergevin because he has no reason to suck. He can hire whoever he wants, spend as much as he wants outside the cap, spend to the cap (and even more with buyouts), has complete support from his owner with a lot of patience, there is really no reason for him not to succeed outside incompetence.
    Houle had his hands tied a bit more. That doesn't mean he had to trade Roy for that return, so no, he isn't getting a pass. I just think Bergevin is worse given his environment and conditions.
    Not to mention, the overall attitude of Bergevin also helps the scale tilt his way.
     
  17. beowulf

    beowulf Not a nice guy.

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    There was an option with Roy, I am sorry you sit down and talk it over to calm the situation. You tell him look, give it a week to let things settle and if you still want to be traded, we will find something but right now trading you does not work for the team at all.
     
  18. Frank Drebin

    Frank Drebin Habs

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    Houle will always have "the trade" as his legacy. Bergevin in comparison isn't really close.
     
  19. BLONG7

    BLONG7 Registered User

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    Patrick was amazing, but he was on some great teams in Montreal and the Avs......his career SV% was 910 and both Cups he won for the Habs his SV% those seasons were sub 900...............he had great teams in front of him.
    I know the game was different in the mid 80's to mid 90's than it is now, but we had great players during his time.
     
  20. 417

    417 Registered User

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    Fair enough...

    For me, the GM who traded 2 HOF'ers, 3 players with over 1000pts, 3 more with over 1000 games...

    And the best player he got back for all of that was Martin Rucinsky...

    Definitely, hands down, eyes closed, gets the vote as the worst GM for the Habs, perhaps of all time.
     
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  21. InAG-P

    InAG-P Registered User

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    Houle and it's not even close. Bergy has at least made trades or moves he's won. With Houle we were fielding an AHL team most nights.
     
  22. Tank Toad

    Tank Toad my post to likes ratio is Lit!

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    To quote Kriss E

    " Both are garbage, if you think Houle is worse, I mean, I'm not going to argue against that.
    I give the edge to Bergevin because he has no reason to suck. He can hire whoever he wants, spend as much as he wants outside the cap, spend to the cap (and even more with buyouts), has complete support from his owner with a lot of patience, there is really no reason for him not to succeed outside incompetence.
    Houle had his hands tied a bit more. That doesn't mean he had to trade Roy for that return, so no, he isn't getting a pass. I just think Bergevin is worse given his environment and conditions.
    Not to mention, the overall attitude of Bergevin also helps the scale tilt his way"

    basically its how I feel too, Houle was worse when you look at trade for trade, but when you consider the situations... Bergie has no real reason to have done this poorly. He shouldn't be able to even be in a discussion about who is worse... yet here we are.

    Also please give consideration to the fact that hockey has changed quite a bit in the last 20 years with respect to analytics, stats, scouting etc. Bergie has this tool( yet he chooses to not follow it) vs. Houle, the internet was just starting out to the masses.


    Bergie has a slight advantage over Houle
     
  23. Kriss E

    Kriss E Registered User

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    In terms of trades, no doubt. But there is more to being a GM than just trades.
    Overall, given the differrent conditions, I just can't picture anybody doing worse than Bergevin.
    Maybe I'm slightly biased because Bergevin is still the GM and Houle is a thing of the past.
     
  24. 417

    417 Registered User

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    I can...

    Réjean Houle lol
     
  25. Doc McKenna

    Doc McKenna Registered User

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    Bergie isn't done yet, and we went from contender to pretender in just 2 seasons. Says a lot doesn't it. Remember his first season he did almost nothing outside of prust, cube and murray. Do those look like the talent we needed to make the next step. I don't think so.
     

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