Houle vs Bergevin

Discussion in 'Montreal Canadiens' started by Bouboumaster, Apr 15, 2018 at 11:46 PM.

?

Which is the worst GM in the Habs history?

  1. Réjean Houle

    48.3%
  2. Marc Bergevin

    50.0%
  3. Other

    1.7%
  1. Sorinth

    Sorinth Registered User

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    So Houle trading Damphousse and Turgeon is the reason we don't have a #1 center today?

    Give me a break.

    The reason we don't have a #1 center is because Bergevin decided to go with Desharnais and now Drouin instead of developing Galchenyuk.

    Not too mention getting rid of Subban, Markov, Sergachev creates an even bigger hole then losing Damphouse/Turgeon.
     
  2. Sorinth

    Sorinth Registered User

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    It's not mind boggling, we made that trade to cut salary pure and simple.
     
  3. Laurentide

    Laurentide Registered User

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    I never thought Desjardins was as good as others thought he was. To me he was just a slightly more talented Patrice Brisebois, another guy I had no time for. I loathe defensemen who push and shove but don't hit. Desjardins never intimidated anyone or prevented any opposing player from entering our zone and doing whatever they wanted to do. His terrible defense was ignored because he contributed offense, but I always thought of him as a fraud when it came to playing defense. He was a poor man's Paul Coffey; an "offenseman" or "rover" more than a defenseman. I prefer defensemen who defend. If they can also score that's a bonus but their primary function should be to defend. Desjardins was never much good for that.
     
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  4. 417

    417 Registered User

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    That's not what I said...

    I said some of the trades Houle did still have a lasting footprint on the Habs today.

    Houle traded Damphouse/Turgeon, who TO THIS DAY, remain the last PPG centers this franchise has had.

    THAT's the footprint i'm talking about.

    I didn't say anything about it being Houle's fault.

    Subban, Sergachev and markov creating an even bigger hole than losing Damphousse/Turgeon?

    LOL funny...

    Damphousse & Turgeon were both traded more than 20yrs ago...and the Habs have STILL not acquired or drafted a center whose even come close to having the impact both of those players had.

    Subban was traded for Shea Weber...Weber isn't exactly chopped liver

    Mikail Sergachev for Jonathan Drouin? How is that even remotely comparable to the Habs trading Pierre Turgeon (over 1300pts ) + Craig Conroy (over 1000 games & over 500pts) for Shayne Corson (played 4 uninspiring seasons in Montreal before moving on) + Murray Baron (played 60 games for the Habs).



    pffftt
     
  5. 417

    417 Registered User

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    If they wanted to trade salary...

    They could of done much better when trading a PPG center than Shane Corson & Murray Baron.

    That deal barely saved any money at all.
     
  6. nhlfan9191

    nhlfan9191 Registered User

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    I’m aware. It’s looking terrible right now and I’m expecting him to create a bigger mess but who knows. For our sakes, I hope he does start to wake up.
     
  7. Sorinth

    Sorinth Registered User

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    Koivu was as good or better, Plekanec had a couple of seasons where he was as good, Galchenyuk is near a ppg pace when used at center. It's disingenuous to compare #s today vs what they were 20 years ago. It's much harder to be a ppg player today then it was 20 years ago.

    And 20 years from now it's extremely unlikely we will have a found a defenceman as good as Subban.
     
  8. Sorinth

    Sorinth Registered User

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    It was what 5-10% of what they were spending on salaries back then. Hardly chump change.

    Not too mention since they were still youngish, they would be looking for raises that we couldn't afford.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018 at 12:57 PM
  9. beowulf

    beowulf Not a nice guy.

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    People showing their ages, as bad as Bergevin has been he is still a step up on Houle. Peanut had no experience at all in hockey management, he was working for Molson beer at the time...Trading Roy instead of trying to calm the situation, especially trading and the teams hard working captain for three average at best players...ouch.
    His second biggest mistake was trading away Turgeon. So two star players traded away under Houle within a year or so of him taking over and no star players in return.

    He also gave up a sleeper in the Turgeon in Craig Conroy in return for an aging Corson, who did have one strong season upon his return, slow as molasses Baron on defense and a 5th rounder that turned into Gennady Razin.

    And for the hat trick of bad moves he gave up the Habs 1st rounder, 10th overall in 99, for an aging Trevor Linden.

    He also trade Bellow for Bureau


    But even a terrible GM makes some good moves. Trading Malakhov for Souray and another player and pick was nice.
     
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  10. 417

    417 Registered User

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    Koivu (due to injuries) & Plekanec and especially Galchenyuk (lol) were NEVER as good as Damphousse or Turgeon were in their primes.

    Come on man.

    Don't you mean eternity?
     
  11. 417

    417 Registered User

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    Pierre Turgeon + Craig Conroy + Rory Fitzpatrick for Shayne Corson + Murray Baron

    Saved the Montreal Canadiens a grand total of 1,125000.

    I guess you're suggesting that trading away a PPG center and another budding 2 way center who would go on to play over 1000 games and record over 500pts was worth it to acquire an over-the-hill Shayne Corson and Murray Baron all to save a little over 1M huh?
     
  12. Habs

    Habs Registered User

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    We could have had Sergachev, PK and Markov last season.. scary thought. Instead we got Drouin/Benn, Alzner

    I'm leaning towards Bergy being the biggest putz in management history.
     
  13. Sorinth

    Sorinth Registered User

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    There's a limited number of roster spot, since Controy/Fitzpatrick weren't roster players, there's still the salary of whoever Baron replaced that you have to factor. The trade saved 2m.

    And no it's not a good idea to make that trade to save 2m, but it also wasn't Houle's decision to cut salary. Houle didn't get a good deal, but let's not pretend his hands weren't tied.
     
  14. yianik

    yianik Registered User

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    Nice summary.

    Yes, Houle traded away 3 centres , Damphousse, Turgeon and Craig Conroy.

    People have said Houle had financial constraints and so made some bad trades as he was forced. Not denying it but did not mean we had to get a lot less value back..
    Damphousse was a money thing as the Habs thought Dampousse would want at least whatever on a new contract. Damphousse came out and said that was not the case. Sounds like they could have signed him, if they had just talked to him. Sigh. Conroy was just a throw in and Turgeon , oh good God.
     
  15. Accidental Genius

    Accidental Genius Registered User

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    Turgeon was traded because he was being put on the wing due to the emergence of Koivu. Turgeon wanted to play center and felt disrespected since he was one of the most productive centers in the 90's and he was the team's captain. He essentially gave them an ultimatum and similarly to the Roy deal, Houle likely took the first offer that was given to him and dealt him within days. Recchi was traded due to salary. The Habs didn't think they could afford to re-sign him. As for Damphousse, they thought he was on a steep decline and wasn't prepared to offer him what he wanted. They traded him away and then proceeded to give a similar contract to Trevor Linden whose rights they acquired (a month before the 1999 UFA period in which Linden would have become an UFA) by giving up a 1st round pick btw :ha:. Turned out Linden was way worse than Damphousse as the latter had some really good years with SJ and Linden couldn't crack 35 points with the Habs. Houle was the worse I've ever seen.
     
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  16. 417

    417 Registered User

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    Agreed - I can't believe the result of this poll.

    what a joke
     
  17. beowulf

    beowulf Not a nice guy.

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    Please there were much better deals out there I am sure. You are giving up a superstar player, second time during his tenure as GM, for bits and pieces in return. Conroy might not have been a regular yet but he had just put up a ppg in the AHL including 31 goals and had 10 goals and 16 points in only 9 games before he was traded.

    The Turgeon trade is just a small step below the Roy one for worst trades since the last time the Habs won the Cup.
     
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  18. Sorinth

    Sorinth Registered User

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    I'm sure there were better deals out there, Houle was a bad GM who got poor returns. But the reason Bergevin is worse is that he was forced to trade his star players, Bergevin decided to trade his star players (Or let them go for nothing) because he thought it would make the team better.
     
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  19. 417

    417 Registered User

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    Pierre Turgeon was traded for nothing
    Vincent Damphousse was traded for nothing
    Patrick Roy was traded for peanuts which essentially amount to nothing

    PK Subban was not traded for nothing
    Markov was let go and went to finish his career in the KHL...he was 38yrs old. If they had managed to re-sign him last year, we'd be saying goodbye to him right now

    It's not even close to comparable...you despise Bergevin now, which is fair, but to say ANY of his moves have even close the same negative impact as Rejean Houle's is just nonsense.
     
  20. Sorinth

    Sorinth Registered User

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    Bergevin thought letting Markov go and replacing him with Alzner/Schelmko/Streit would make this team better.

    That's worse then being forced to trade a guy and getting a crappy return.
     
  21. 417

    417 Registered User

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    I don't even think it's remotely comparable...

    To each his own, I'm not about to tell you how to answer the poll question.
     
  22. OnTheRun

    OnTheRun Unsung Hero

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    Houle was forced to trade Roy, Damphousse and Turgeon. Yeah, he got severely short-changed on all 3 deals, but it wasn't his idea to begin with and keeping them wasn't an option.

    Molson Co. created the perfect storm and there was no way for a unqualified GM (at every level) to get through this looking good.
     
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  23. 417

    417 Registered User

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    If what you're saying about Houle is true...then why don't we just change the poll question from Houle vs Bergevin to just Corey vs Bergevin

    Since Houle isn't accountable for his trades..

    Houle or Corey...it doesn't matter, IMO, that era was way more damaging to this franchise than anything Bergrvin has ever done.

    My biggest gripes with Bergrvin reside with what he has NOT done as opposed to what he has done.
     
  24. LeHab

    LeHab Registered User

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    Roy vs Tremblay case could have been managed a lot better. That is on Houle.
     
  25. OnTheRun

    OnTheRun Unsung Hero

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    And no one is arguing against that.

    You just can't evaluate a sock puppet who was set up to fail the same way you would evaluate any other GM. You're judging history (ie: the era of both GM.) here, and you can't do that without context.
     

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