Home Sharpeners

[WreckItRask]

A little bit of a thread bump here, but I just ordered the Sparx for my family. Has there been any reports of them faltering/failing yet? I can't find a single negative review online, or an instance of someone's machine breaking, so I thought I would check in here.

The reason I ask is there's a 30 day window to add an additional two years to the warranty, but if there's no reports of them failing I'll likely bypass that.

 

[shoeshine boy]

I've had mine for over a year now and I have had no problems. you might take a look through here:
Sparx Skate Sharpener - At home sharpener

 

[bleedblue94]

Also looking for more info on this topic.

I run a series of outdoor pond hockey events in upstate NY and I'm considering buying a sparx or pro sharp home unit to offer sharpenings on site.

We have roughly 400 players each weekend, alrhoalt I'm not sure exactly how many would take advantage of the service.

With more time going by for sparx, can peoe give give reccomendations between these two products?

Can sparx profile blades?

Two questions I always have looking at these machines is how do they regulate the pressure of the cutting wheel to the blade, and if there is a low spot in a blade from a human sharpener that did not keep constant movement/speed on the blade, will the machine just continually dig into the low spot and make it worse?

Thanks

 

[DevsFan84]

I personally would suggest Prosharp for your specific situation- the main reason is how rough pond hockey is on skates. You're going to need more passes than usual on a Sparx which will drive your consumables cost even higher than it already is with that machine.

 

[LeifUK]

I personally would suggest Prosharp for your specific situation- the main reason is how rough pond hockey is on skates. You're going to need more passes than usual on a Sparx which will drive your consumables cost even higher than it already is with that machine.

Be aware that a ProSharp sharpen is one pass, a Sparx sharpen is multiple passes, and Sparx claim that each pass on their machine removes significantly more metal. So the ProSharp may not be as cheap to run as you think. There is a post from the CEO of Sparx on the ModSquadHockey forum on this issue:

Sparx Skate Sharpener - At home sharpener

The above will be pro Sparx, obviously, but ProSharp read the forum and have not challenged the above post. So, assuming it is correct, the ProSharp is not cheaper to run. However, it is much smaller and lighter, which may be important, and I think it has a longer warranty.

 

[DevsFan84]

A few thoughts:

-He's comparing a Sparx to Prosharp Home in that post- I have no experience or knowledge with that machine or the consumables it uses, so I can't comment on it.
-You will need more passes than Sparx advertises on beat up blades for them to be acceptable to give to a customer paying for a skate sharpening. The more passes you need, the higher the disparity between consumable pricing.
-I am 100% sure that the cost per sharpening on a as2001 (what I assumed he was talking about, based on the profiling question) is much cheaper than sparx on a per pair basis, assuming whoever is operating the machine has a brain and isn't burning through diamonds or wheels because they don't know what they're doing.

Now, the initial cost is huge for an as2001 compared to a sparx, as I think they're going for over 10k. The sparx may very well be the better machine for him, I really have no idea- lots of other factors to consider.

 

[LeifUK]

I am planning to buy a sharpening machine for home use, and the issue that turns me off the ProSharp Home is the lack of online reviews from users, whereas the Sparx has loads. I know a LHS that has a ProSharp Pro (3?), which was the next one up from the Home, and they say the diamond coated grinding wheels gradually developed a coating of steel which impaired the quality of sharpens. They said customers preferred hand sharpens, possibly because of the wheel issue, so they have had the machine sitting beneath a desk unused for many years. I do like the more compact nature of the ProSharp Home, but it is less automated and much more expensive (I am assuming the Sparx when available in the UK will be £1000-£1200).

As an aside, I have had my skates sharpened on a ProSharp as2001 and the results are very good indeed.

 

[IDuck]

if buying a sparx, buy lots of the wheels they go pretty quick....HOWEVER, if you want something for home sharpening and dont want to learn the art of skate sharpening (which will ALWAYS be the best way, when it is learned correctly) the sparx is a no brainer.

 

[dss97]

I can vouch for the sparx, excellent product. Sharpening is perfect every time and can do flat bottom (I believe the Prosharp cannot).

Each wheel does ~50 sharpenings, so give or take a little over a dollar per.

 

[DevsFan84]

I can vouch for the sparx, excellent product. Sharpening is perfect every time and can do flat bottom (I believe the Prosharp cannot).

Each wheel does ~50 sharpenings, so give or take a little over a dollar per.

Prosharp's FBV(ish) sharpening is called Channel Z. It works differently than a fire ring- you grind the channel, then do the sharpening, but the effect is supposed to be similar from what I understand. For the Prosharp home, you'd have to buy a separate Channel Z wheel which is pricey.

Sparx does do a nice job for a home sharpener, but in my experience that "~50" sharpenings number is rather...optimistic, though I suppose your mileage will vary depending on how beat up your skates get.

 

[user 313613]

Hi Everyone i am new to the fourm yes but i have tried the Sparx as well as the Prosharp Skatepal i personally bought the Prosharp 2 for the simple fact that the consumables are far less expensive. i sharpen my kids skates every 3-4 hours he loves them super sharp. i have seen and tried the Sparx it is a great machine but its consumables are way to expensive for a home machine. it also is a Printer track and it has a lot more plastic parts in it that will wear over time. my own 2 cents
i only came on here because i was researching sharpeners because i am looking at a new Manual machine over the Prosharp skatepal i have as i want to start doing more skates at home for the team.

Cheers!

 

[LeifUK]

For what it's worth, I've used both- I'm assuming we are referring to the Prosharp Home in comparison to the Sparx. Both have strengths and weaknesses. Prosharps are significantly more expensive to buy, and they need to be calibrated frequently. Consumables are much cheaper. Sparx are cheaper to buy and easier to use but consumables are way more expensive which becomes a factor if you are doing a lot of skates. Also, the build quality of the Prosharp is light years ahead of Sparx- I have no doubt it will last longer. Both do a nice job sharpening.

Which one would I buy? Depends how many skates I was doing. I’d go Sparx for a family, and Prosharp (Skatepal Pro 3) for a team.

I know this is an old thread, but can you quantify in what way the ProSharp is 'light years' ahead of the Sparx? The Sparx has a steel internal chassis, the outer casing looks like extruded aluminium and a few bits such as the end panels and the safety doors are a decent quality plastic. Overall the build is impressive.

 

[DevsFan84]

If you ever have the chance, take a look at a Prosharp and compare it to a Sparx side-by-side. I can't get into a discussion regarding materials because I'm not qualified to do so. Maybe plastic is better in those applications- all I know is that the Sparx has a lot more of it than the Prosharp.

What I do have is real-life experience using and testing both, in the same shop, at the same time, for extended periods of time. It doesn't take an expert to see which one is built better. There is a reason why one has a 90 day warranty and the other has a 3 year warranty. The Prosharp is hand built in Sweeden- the Sparx is...well, not.

On the same note, the Prosharp Home is like $700 more expensive, so you're not getting that quality for free. And I'm not knocking sparx- it does a good job, but there is really no comparison in build quality.

 

[LeifUK]

The Sparx does not have a 90 day warranty.

The Prosharp warranty is 3 years or 5,000 cycles whichever comes first. The Sparx warranty is one year or 10,000 cycles whichever comes first. So for a home user you're right, the Prosharp has the longer warranty which does give peace of mind, so some people might prefer that although one year is normal for a consumer product. For a hockey team the Sparx warranty could be better as Sparx warrant it for twice as many cycles.

I can't comment on the Prosharp Home build quality. I had one of their BAT gauges, it was poorly designed and inaccurate by 2/1000". I sent it back to Prosharp in disgust, and the senior person in the US told me they checked it and it was fine. Well it disagreed with Sparx and Blademaster gauges used by my trusted sharpener and it disagreed with my gauge, which agreed with the other two. I also have their depth gauge which is a cheap POS made from stamped steel and sold at a high price. Obviously that tells me nothing about the Prosharp Home, apart from destroying my confidence in Prosharp.

The Prosharp is made in Sweden which means much higher labour costs. The Sparx is made in the Far East (China ?), which significantly reduces labour and materials costs. So you can't simply say that the Prosharp is better because it costs more. And you can't say that Swedish manufacturing is per se better. It's all about the design, and the QC. The Sparx at 17.5 kg) weighs more than twice as much as the Prosharp at 8.5 kg, make of that what you will but it certainly does not suggest that the Sparx is a toy in comparison. As far as I know the end covers of the Prosharp are plastic, as are those on the Sparx. The Sparx has a (very solid) plastic clamp lever, and plastic protective covers either side of the skate slot. It also has two plastic adjustment knobs. The rest looks like metal. The device is very well made. I honestly cannot see how it could be made better. There are thousands out there and I cannot find one single report of a failed machine.

The Sparx is more user friendly. Calibration is a breeze, and it holds calibration. You can tell it to take 10 cycles, and go away and do something else until it has completed.

Yes I do agree that for a home user the Prosharp warranty is more reassuring, but here in the UK the Prosharp costs £2,000 compared to £1,200 for the Sparx. If the price was closer then yes I would have considered the Prosharp, and tried to find one to examine/test. I had already used a Sparx, probably one of the first in the UK, and been impressed. I am told that it has taken direct hits from pucks (including to the glass) while seated close to an ice rink, and it was not even marked never mind damaged.

The Prosharp AS2001 is an altogether different beast, much better engineered with a price to match. I've seen the Prosharp Skatepal 3 and that does not look as well made as the Sparx, but that might just be the casing.

To be honest for me the biggest issue was that I could not see and test a Prosharp Home and there are very few user reviews online, whereas there are hundreds for the Sparx. That for me means more than a warranty length.

 

[Blissy]

...
Can sparx profile blades?

Two questions I always have looking at these machines is how do they regulate the pressure of the cutting wheel to the blade, and if there is a low spot in a blade from a human sharpener that did not keep constant movement/speed on the blade, will the machine just continually dig into the low spot and make it worse?

Thanks

Sparx cannot do profiling at this time.

The pressure applied comes from a counter-weight that applies equal pressure to the grinding wheel as it passes along the blade. Since there is no variation, the machine will simply follow any previous errors already in the blade. It should not take off too much steel off the toe or heel as some heavy-handed human sharpeners are apt to do. It also should follow a custom profiled blade consistently as well.

As previous posters have said, a skilled technician running a quality machine can do a far better job than one of the automated machines can. I work with both Sparx machines, and a 3-head Blademaster at the shop. My customers prefer a manual sharpening by me on the Blademaster, but if I'm not available, the desk clerks can easily use the Sparx to give them an acceptable sharpening--literally minimal training and no skill required. So, if kept calibrated and clean, the Sparx does a great job for the average home user. If you are interested in a truly custom-radius, invest in a quality machine.

I have a Blademaster 850 portable at home.

 

[bleedblue94]

Sparx cannot do profiling at this time.

The pressure applied comes from a counter-weight that applies equal pressure to the grinding wheel as it passes along the blade. Since there is no variation, the machine will simply follow any previous errors already in the blade. It should not take off too much steel off the toe or heel as some heavy-handed human sharpeners are apt to do. It also should follow a custom profiled blade consistently as well.

As previous posters have said, a skilled technician running a quality machine can do a far better job than one of the automated machines can. I work with both Sparx machines, and a 3-head Blademaster at the shop. My customers prefer a manual sharpening by me on the Blademaster, but if I'm not available, the desk clerks can easily use the Sparx to give them an acceptable sharpening--literally minimal training and no skill required. So, if kept calibrated and clean, the Sparx does a great job for the average home user. If you are interested in a truly custom-radius, invest in a quality machine.

I have a Blademaster 850 portable at home.

We have a dual head blade master where I work, which I've been using for close to a decade now. My interest in the sparx is solely to use at outdoor hockey events that i run where a blade master is not available for sharpening services. In such an instance, if the sparx can provide an acceptable cut by someone w limited training than it may be a fit for this situation.

Thanks

 

[LeifUK]

As previous posters have said, a skilled technician running a quality machine can do a far better job than one of the automated machines can. I work with both Sparx machines, and a 3-head Blademaster at the shop. My customers prefer a manual sharpening by me on the Blademaster, but if I'm not available, the desk clerks can easily use the Sparx to give them an acceptable sharpening--literally minimal training and no skill required. So, if kept calibrated and clean, the Sparx does a great job for the average home user. If you are interested in a truly custom-radius, invest in a quality machine.

Could you explain why a skilled technician can do a far better job than an automated machine?

I must admit that I have yet to find a technician who can do as good a job. The best manual sharpeners I have found - the only ones who get even edges - destroyed the profile on my blades. They became flat, and I could not even do lemons. The other manual sharpeners didn’t even get even edges, not remotely close. I now do one pass with my Sparx before each session, and I have perfect edges, and the correct profile.

 

[Blissy]

Could you explain why a skilled technician can do a far better job than an automated machine?

I must admit that I have yet to find a technician who can do as good a job.

That's really a sad statement, I'm sorry to hear that. To break it down into simple terms, it's about the training or experience of the tech performing the job, and the amount of care they put into it. Conversely, it's the lack of control of the automated machines that make the finished product less desirable. Don't get me wrong: the Sparx does a nice job. If it's calibrated correctly, it will put nice, even edges on your blade, at the ROH you've selected.

A couple of shortcomings of the Sparx:
1--as the wheel makes contact with the blade, it does so at the same point every time. After repeated passes and sharpenings, this will form a "knob" at the top of the blade on each side.
2--when sharpening figure skates, the operator places "blocks" over the toe pick and end of the blade. The Sparx leaves a "bump" on the heel of the blade.
Both of the above can be avoided by a technician.

3--a skate with a bent blade may not be noticed by the Sparx operator, so as the grinding wheel travels across the blade, it may give uneven edges. In addition (especially with youth skates, where the blade is pressed into the holder) the blade may not be perpendicular to the skater's foot. What good are perfectly square edges if the blade is 3 degrees canted?
An experienced technician would notice the bend, or the improperly mounted blade and straighten the blade before sharpening, or compensate for the offset.

4--Grinding wheels only come in specific radii. A truly custom radius is available from an experienced tech.
5--As a grinding wheel ages, it loses bits of grit, or builds up grit in other areas. These are then imparted on the skate blade.
I very often see grooves in the internal radius on the blade when this happens. A properly dressed grinding wheel of the correct grit (there are many different stones available for sharpening different kinds of steel) will leave a much smoother finish.

6--As the grinding wheel passes over a blade, it actually kicks up little burrs. Think of a pile carpet or those pillows you run your hand over in one direction to make it smooth, then drag your fingers across to change the color. What this does is increase drag on the blade against the ice. A good tech puts a final pass on the blade that leaves an extremely smooth finish, thereby increasing glide.

Unfortunately, there are "hockey shops" out there that employ inexperienced people to work there. They stock gear, run the till, and sharpen skates. The experience they have, or they care they put into it may not be optimum. They're likely to grind off your profile (always ask a tech if they know how to sharpen on a custom profile--if they don't know what you're talking about, RUN AWAY!) There are lots of other problems that they can cause as well, such as heating up a blade and bending it, grinding it at an angle, etc.

I know that this has been long-winded. Sorry about that, but I do feel passionate about proper skate sharpening. When you find a shop you like, stick with them. Ask questions before you let them touch your equipment. The Sparx machines definitely have a place, and I feel that they're a quality option, but are limited in what they can do.

 

[Blissy]

My interest in the sparx is solely to use at outdoor hockey events that i run where a blade master is not available for sharpening services. In such an instance, if the sparx can provide an acceptable cut by someone w limited training than it may be a fit for this situation.

I bet it would be awesome for scenarios like this. I've heard of a guy who bought 6 Sparx machines and put them in a van, then drives around town and does sharpenings while people are at work. He also goes to tournaments and sharpens in the parking lot. Makes good money while doing it too!

One thing about your outdoor event to keep in mind--the blades may be very cold and brittle when they bring them to you to sharpen. It might be useful to have a way to warm them up before sharpening them for the customers.

 

[LeifUK]

That's really a sad statement, I'm sorry to hear that. To break it down into simple terms, it's about the training or experience of the tech performing the job, and the amount of care they put into it. Conversely, it's the lack of control of the automated machines that make the finished product less desirable. Don't get me wrong: the Sparx does a nice job. If it's calibrated correctly, it will put nice, even edges on your blade, at the ROH you've selected.

A couple of shortcomings of the Sparx:
1--as the wheel makes contact with the blade, it does so at the same point every time. After repeated passes and sharpenings, this will form a "knob" at the top of the blade on each side.
2--when sharpening figure skates, the operator places "blocks" over the toe pick and end of the blade. The Sparx leaves a "bump" on the heel of the blade.
Both of the above can be avoided by a technician.

3--a skate with a bent blade may not be noticed by the Sparx operator, so as the grinding wheel travels across the blade, it may give uneven edges. In addition (especially with youth skates, where the blade is pressed into the holder) the blade may not be perpendicular to the skater's foot. What good are perfectly square edges if the blade is 3 degrees canted?
An experienced technician would notice the bend, or the improperly mounted blade and straighten the blade before sharpening, or compensate for the offset.

4--Grinding wheels only come in specific radii. A truly custom radius is available from an experienced tech.
5--As a grinding wheel ages, it loses bits of grit, or builds up grit in other areas. These are then imparted on the skate blade.
I very often see grooves in the internal radius on the blade when this happens. A properly dressed grinding wheel of the correct grit (there are many different stones available for sharpening different kinds of steel) will leave a much smoother finish.

6--As the grinding wheel passes over a blade, it actually kicks up little burrs. Think of a pile carpet or those pillows you run your hand over in one direction to make it smooth, then drag your fingers across to change the color. What this does is increase drag on the blade against the ice. A good tech puts a final pass on the blade that leaves an extremely smooth finish, thereby increasing glide.

Unfortunately, there are "hockey shops" out there that employ inexperienced people to work there. They stock gear, run the till, and sharpen skates. The experience they have, or they care they put into it may not be optimum. They're likely to grind off your profile (always ask a tech if they know how to sharpen on a custom profile--if they don't know what you're talking about, RUN AWAY!) There are lots of other problems that they can cause as well, such as heating up a blade and bending it, grinding it at an angle, etc.

I know that this has been long-winded. Sorry about that, but I do feel passionate about proper skate sharpening. When you find a shop you like, stick with them. Ask questions before you let them touch your equipment. The Sparx machines definitely have a place, and I feel that they're a quality option, but are limited in what they can do.

Thanks, that is an excellent answer. And I won’t disagree with much of what you say. But I will make a few comments.

I did once have a bent blade, and the good sharpeners I know could indeed get an almost perfect sharpen. That said, these same people (very good sharpeners with 20+ years of experience, they own the shop) destroyed the profile, and the blades were almost flat when it was time to buy new skates. I’m not convinced manual sharpening can preserve the profile, humans are not perfect. It’d be interesting to do a study and find out the truth, I’m happy to be proved wrong.

The Sparx does indeed produce a slightly irregular area where it makes first contact with the blade, but it is nearly at the end, and it is not an area I skate on. I cannot comment if this would impact higher level skaters. It does not bother me.

The good sharpeners I use apply an oil like substance on the final pass to get a smooth surface. I’ve not seen any studies comparing Sparx and manual sharpenings for smoothness.

Clearly there are some interesting studies that could be done.

For a low level rec hockey player the Sparx is amazing and it allows me to have sharp skates with perfect edges every session. That really is a key advantage, the convenience and ease of use, no need to drive 25 miles for a sharpen. And I’m convinced this has noticeably imroved my skating.

Interestingly my LHS has a commercial ProSharp SkatePal machine, which is similar to the Sparx, but it sits under the desk unused. They said that customers preferred the manual sharpens. They also had problems with steel dust accreting on the cutting wheel. I have not heard of any similar issues with the Sparx wheels. Mine is half way through, and I’m curious to see how well it cuts at the end of its life. It is certainly something that occurred to me when I bought it. We shall see.