GDT: Home Cookin' - Blues (11-3-1, 1st in West) @ Devils (9-3-1, 2nd in East), 7 PM, MSG+2

[BenedictGomez]

So basically another repackaging of Corsi/Fenwick. As I figured.

As you know, I pretty much loathe how much this crap gets talked about.

But that said, if people are going to overuse and more likely misuse this nonsense, people should use Fenwick rather than Corsi, becuase at least Fenwick attempts to fix a glaring Corsi logic error.

 

[Bleedred]

I agree. Merill is/was probably the most overrated defenseman we had in the past 5 years

I don't even think he was better than Mark Fayne. I know Fayne has spent the better part of two seasons in the AHL, and has fallen out of favor with the Oilers, but he was a quietly solid defenseman for us for a couple years. He's probably still an NHL caliber bottom pairing guy, but he fell out of favor with the current Edmonton regime, after getting that contract from MacTavish.

I heard for a couple years between Severson's draft and turning pro, that he was a ''Steal'' at 60th overall, and that Santini had a lot of ''Potential'', but Merrill was talked up as a stud. He was heralded as being better than all of these guys, other than maybe right after Larsson was drafted.

 

[devilsblood]

Well saying "That's how I see it" is another way of saying "In my opinion" so I don't see the issue here.

but then it's just opinion vs opinion. The stats provide backing for those opinions.

 

[Bleedred]

As you know, I pretty much loathe how much this crap gets talked about.

But that said, if people are going to overuse and more likely misuse this nonsense, people should use Fenwick rather than Corsi, becuase at least Fenwick attempts to fix a glaring Corsi logic error.

For me, I find that players who are good at corsi/fenwick, the eye test usually corroborates it. There are some exceptions, like Jacob Josefson (LOL) and a few other scrubs, who somehow are able to be on the ice for more chances for than against, yet are able to sustain a pathetic amount of non-offensive production throughout their careers. And no matter what, you're never gonna convince me that Jacob Josefson does more good than harm, when he's playing in your top 9 and can't even produce 20 points per year.

For some reason, I've seen those who are heavy into analytics, talk about how Kyle Palmieri isn't very good, but he seems to have broken even or close to it in relative corsi/fenwick since he's been a Devil. And he also gets slightly more defensive zone starts than offensive zone starts, so I never understood why he's been said to not be that great. He's no Taylor Hall or anything, but we all know he's not as good as Taylor Hall anyway.

 

[Bcap88]

For me, I find that players who are good at corsi/fenwick, the eye test usually corroborates it. There are some exceptions, like Jacob Josefson (LOL) and a few other scrubs, who somehow are able to be on the ice for more chances for than against, yet are able to sustain a pathetic amount of non-offensive production throughout their careers. And no matter what, you're never gonna convince me that Jacob Josefson does more good than harm, when he's playing in your top 9 and can't even produce 20 points per year.

For some reason, I've seen those who are heavy into analytics, talk about how Kyle Palmieri isn't very good, but he seems to have broken even or close to it in relative corsi/fenwick since he's been a Devil. And he also gets slightly more defensive zone starts than offensive zone starts, so I never understood why he's been said to not be that great. He's no Taylor Hall or anything, but we all know he's not as good as Taylor Hall anyway.

If im not mistaking isnt beau bennett some sort of corsi stud as well ?

 

[Emperoreddy]

If im not mistaking isnt beau bennett some sort of corsi stud as well ?

Todd Cordell won’t stop reminding us he is.

 

[glenwo2]

but then it's just opinion vs opinion. The stats provide backing for those opinions.

Yes but stats are so boring.

 

[Bleedred]

If im not mistaking isnt beau bennett some sort of corsi stud as well ?

He is, but I won't add him to the Josefson echelon yet, as his career production was better than what it was for us last year. And it was still better than any season from Josefson, outside of his 28 game rookie campaign, all the way back at the top of the decade.

I do agree, if a player is good at corsi, but can't score or produce enough points, they have no business in a top 9 role. That's also assuming that they've been bad for YEARS or almost their entire career, like Jacob Josefson has. If it's a one year thing, you give them a pass. If it's more than that, it becomes a trend and more indicative of what they really are, rather than it being a case of them being ''Snakebitten'' or ''Unlucky''.

The Sharks have a player like this right now. Timo Meier. The corsi numbers were there last year, but the actual production was not. He had 6 points in 34 games, while posting very strong corsi numbers and fenwick as well. This year, he's got 3 points in 13 games, so that's 9 points in 47 career NHL games. Still early on, he's barely played more than a half a season's worth of games, but he's been very underwhelming for how good the corsi looks. He has a low shooting percentage, as does Jacob Josefson, but at some point, a player might have a low shooting percentage because they're a lousy shooter and not because they're unlucky or ''Snakebitten''.