Confirmed with Link: Holland signed to 2-year extension

Lil Sebastian Cossa

Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
Jul 6, 2012
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When Osgood was signed, Dom was in Ottawa...

Osgood was actually brought back to be a starter and loyalty likely had little to do with it... Joseph wasn't coming back, they (rightfully) never seemed to trust running with Legace as the clear cut #1, and once the Hawks made Khabibulin the highest (and eventually most over)paid goalie in the league, Osgood was the best goalie available coming off a 67 game season where he was 2.24 and .910.

If there was any loyalty at play, it was Osgood accepting peanuts ($900k!) to come back to a team he previously enjoyed playing for.

The alternatives at the time were Mike Dunham or a crusty Sean Burke who ended up getting paid almost twice as much as Osgood to be a backup in Tampa...

Ah, my mistake. I remembered that Ozzie took the 900k contract and I figured that was because he was basically out of hockey and the Wings brought him back. Wow, I completely blanked on Ozzie even being in net for us from 2005-2007. Man, I'm a crap fan.

E: I just looked it back up... damn, Ozzie was a better goalie than I remember him being in the 2000s. I just had it in my mind he was a regular season mediocre guy and he turned studly in 08 and 09 like out of nowhere.

That was not the case at all.
 
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njx9

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Feb 1, 2016
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E: I just looked it back up... damn, Ozzie was a better goalie than I remember him being in the 2000s. I just had it in my mind he was a regular season mediocre guy and he turned studly in 08 and 09 like out of nowhere.

Was he though? He mostly sat right around .900 SV% every season after his first year in NY.

To be fair, I don't remember him being good ever after 2000 - I think I'd blocked his 07-08 seasons from my mind, for some reason.
 

ShelbyZ

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Apr 8, 2015
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Ah, my mistake. I remembered that Ozzie took the 900k contract and I figured that was because he was basically out of hockey and the Wings brought him back. Wow, I completely blanked on Ozzie even being in net for us from 2005-2007. Man, I'm a crap fan.

E: I just looked it back up... damn, Ozzie was a better goalie than I remember him being in the 2000s. I just had it in my mind he was a regular season mediocre guy and he turned studly in 08 and 09 like out of nowhere.

That was not the case at all.

I think the biggest thing with Osgood, especially during that 05-07 time period, is how injuries killed a lot of opportunities for him.

05-06: Gets signed to be #1 cheap, mainly because the Wings have almost no cap space to enter the cap era. He gets hurt in the pre-season, Legace heats up and sets some October wins record so they ride him and Osgood never gets going. Legace absolutely dumps the bed in games 2 and 3 against the Oilers, so it's reported that Babcock is going to go with Osgood for game 4. Then Osgood tweaks his groin in the morning skate for game 4, forcing them to go with the melting down Legace.
06-07: This is where you were partly correct. They let headcase Legace go and re-signed Osgood for 2 years at $900k, but since they don't know where he's at playwise, they sign Hasek as #1. Then Osgood misses more time that year as they ride Hasek.
 

TheMoreYouKnow

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May 3, 2007
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What's that trope that people like: "You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become a villain"? In sports management it's like "You either retire as a championship-winning genius or stay around long enough to see yourself be called an out of touch, incompetent fool."

So many of those guys don't know when it's time to hit the golf course for good. I can see why though..the power, the status, the hustle and bustle..even once the success is gone, you're still surrounded by people for whom you're a figure of authority and you'll still instantly get the table at the hottest new restaurant in town.

Of course, this franchise is effed for a good, long time. This fanbase is gonna be like cotton candy in water:

2Mor.gif
 

Pavels Dog

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Feb 18, 2013
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What's that trope that people like: "You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become a villain"? In sports management it's like "You either retire as a championship-winning genius or stay around long enough to see yourself be called an out of touch, incompetent fool."

So many of those guys don't know when it's time to hit the golf course for good. I can see why though..the power, the status, the hustle and bustle..even once the success is gone, you're still surrounded by people for whom you're a figure of authority and you'll still instantly get the table at the hottest new restaurant in town.
There's also the less black-and-white view of management. They all fail. Yzerman wasn't a bumbling incompetent fool when that team finished close to the bottom two years in a row and made two basically failed draft picks in Koekkoek (#10) and Drouin (#3), nor was he a genius when he found Brayden Point in the 3rd round and made the SCF, and he didn't turn into a moron again when they missed the playoffs las year. Jim Nill wasn't a genius when he traded for Seguin, and he's not an incompetent fool for failing to get any success with Dallas. Similar examples can be found for many GMs. Some look like fools, then time passes and they start looking like geniuses. Look at GMGM. Made one of the worst trades of hockey history in Washington, now looks like he's outsmarted the entire hockey world with Vegas.
Good moves, bad moves, luck, opportunity.. not even the biggest "genius" GM avoids failure.
 

The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
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Ft. Myers, FL

Interesting. I think Minny is a really tough job to be honest. You're tied into two players that aren't likely to get any better at this point for a long time as your franchise center pieces. Surprised that is the one that has him interested, but he knows the owner and clearly unlike most of Nashville I guess might like him from their Preds days.
 
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BinCookin

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Feb 15, 2012
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What's that trope that people like: "You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become a villain"? In sports management it's like "You either retire as a championship-winning genius or stay around long enough to see yourself be called an out of touch, incompetent fool."

I mean the salary for an NHL GM is a big time payday for these guys.

be a GM as long as you can.... I would.
 

Claypool

Registered User
Jan 12, 2009
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Of course, this franchise is effed for a good, long time.

The downside to having a quarter century of success. Time to pay the piper.

This team just started its rebuild and ya'll are acting like it's been a 10-year run of incompetence a la Edmonton.
 

abbbaron

Registered User
May 6, 2015
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The downside to having a quarter century of success. Time to pay the piper.

This team just started its rebuild and ya'll are acting like it's been a 10-year run of incompetence a la Edmonton.
It nearly has been a 10-year run of incompetence: Holland is under contract til the 10th anniversary of the Modano signing. The off-season following that: Ian White. Go back and look at all those impact signings and trades Holland was putting together following the Finals appearances. The persistence of a generational talent, the pure windfalls of the Euro Twins, and the stone-bleeding of Babcock were masking how woeful a GM Holland really was during that time. But to be fair, he (inexplicably) still has 2 years to put out this robust dumpster fire he has created, so the case isn't closed quite yet.

I also find it interesting how you've operatively defined success as making the playoffs.
 

Oddbob

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Jan 21, 2016
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"Well thing is, we kicked the tires on a few GM's, but didn't really like any of the terms on deals with any of them! Key thing is we tried to improve our end, just didn't work out!"
 
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TheMoreYouKnow

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May 3, 2007
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The downside to having a quarter century of success. Time to pay the piper.

This team just started its rebuild and ya'll are acting like it's been a 10-year run of incompetence a la Edmonton.

I knew the Wings would enter a period of being crap 8 years ago. I've constantly complained about the way this team has been run..for almost as long. The Wings kept handing out bad contracts to keep a mediocre core together, they signed 2nd tier FAs..even as the stars got old and/or left, even as it became clear that there's no talent in the org good enough to make the team a contender.

The org pulled Datsyuk and Zetterberg out of a hat, and it got them arrogant enough to think they can keep repeating that. But Hudler and Filppula weren't that good. Kronwall no Lidstrom. Tatar and Nyquist barely productive players in the NHL. And none of that was a shock to anyone who actually watched and followed things. Those outcomes were expected. The Wings kept making bets that would only work if everyone else is wrong and Ken Holland is right. Well, it didn't work out like that.

Ken Holland isn't an idiot, he's just a guy who got drunk on his own PR that the Wings had somehow figured out the magic formula of how to flawlessly identify superstars where everyone else sees average to above average players. The Wings are good enough that they'll just keep hitting on those lower draft picks.

It was bound to hit a brick wall at some point. Some of us saw it way before he did and you did. It's really funny to now see some people act - especially as its the same people who supported the team in its dumb moves over the last 5-6 years - as if they just discovered yesterday that the Wings need to rebuild and this was all going pretty swell until about 2016.
 

Pavels Dog

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Feb 18, 2013
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I knew the Wings would enter a period of being crap 8 years ago.
Everyone knew. Just like everyone knew Chicago would become crap, how we know Pittsburgh will become crap, Tampa will become crap (actually have been crap off and on)... everyone has their period of being crap. You're not nostradamus. If you know the right moves to keep a team from never being crap, you're wasting your time here. Go out there and become history's best GM.

Most good teams in the league will be "crap" 8 years from now. That's the natural cycle. All the bottom feeders pick up top prospects, who 8 years from now are in their prime at 23-28 year old. And 8 years later those players decline and those teams become crap again. That's extremely simplified but in broad strokes this is how the league functions. There's no arrogance to trying to win while you have the chance. All teams do it. Most just do it way, way worse than the Wings did (meaning a much shorter stay at the top and much faster drop to the bottom).
 
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Flowah

Registered User
Nov 30, 2009
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Everyone knew. Just like everyone knew Chicago would become crap, how we know Pittsburgh will become crap, Tampa will become crap (actually have been crap off and on)... everyone has their period of being crap. You're not nostradamus. If you know the right moves to keep a team from never being crap, you're wasting your time here. Go out there and become history's best GM.
Everyone? That's revisionism.

Ken Holland's moves a few years ago before he finally accepted the rebuild don't speak to a man who knows it. And even if you come back with "it was marching orders from the owners!" well that just means the owners didn't know it.

Certainly a lot of our fans and posters here didn't know it. Lots of people thought we could still contend. Lots of people defended Holland's moves. If you knew we were crap, you wouldn't have defended trading away picks and prospects for non-difference maker rentals who would take us nowhere in the playoffs. We've been crap for 5 years. Some people knew it, some people didn't. You can't pretend everyone knew that.

You're right. It doesn't take Nostradamus. But that's what made it more puzzling that there was so much resistance to the idea when people starting harping on it 5+ years ago. You'd think however many years of never advancing past the 2nd round and only being able to beat teams like the Coyotes would have indicated something.
 

Pavels Dog

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Feb 18, 2013
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Everyone? That's revisionism.

Ken Holland's moves a few years ago before he finally accepted the rebuild don't speak to a man who knows it. And even if you come back with "it was marching orders from the owners!" well that just means the owners didn't know it.

Certainly a lot of our fans and posters here didn't know it. Lots of people thought we could still contend. Lots of people defended Holland's moves. If you knew we were crap, you wouldn't have defended trading away picks and prospects for non-difference maker rentals who would take us nowhere in the playoffs. We've been crap for 5 years. Some people knew it, some people didn't. You can't pretend everyone knew that.

You're right. It doesn't take Nostradamus. But that's what made it more puzzling that there was so much resistance to the idea when people starting harping on it 5+ years ago. You'd think however many years of never advancing past the 2nd round and only being able to beat teams like the Coyotes would have indicated something.
Nah everyone knew we would have tough years. How tough, how many, when the balloon would finally run out of air.. that's what we didn't know exactly. I'd definitely argue that drawing a line in the sand and saying "we won't trade 1st round picks or top prospects" is the move of a man that knows a rebuild is coming.

But we've been over these things. Always easy to say with hindsight the team was crap. I thought Nashville was crap this year and had no chance to win. Was I right? Yeah, in hindsight. Yay me. We traded away some non-difference maker prospects and picks for non-difference makers rentals. A compromise. In retrospect those were bad moves because they didn't help us win, but what we gave up wouldn't really have made a difference for us either (realistically), so it becomes a non-factor.

There's also no way of knowing just what would have happened if Datsyuk hadn't broken his contract and Babcock had elected to stay. Or if Franzen hadn't been forced to LTIR. Or if Cole's career hadn't ended a few games after being acquired. Or if Mrazek hadn't turned from Vezina candidate to non-NHLer in the span of 2 minutes. We all knew bad times would eventually hit, the reason posters like you always try to find cop-out excuses to remove the 2014-15 season from existance is that it's cold, hard evidence that Holland wasn't out of his mind to believe the team still had life in it. It's evidence that even if you know you're going towards a rebuild, you don't have to throw in the towel before the team is actually done competing.
 

Flowah

Registered User
Nov 30, 2009
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It's. Not. Hindsight.

Some of us have been saying it for over 5 years.

And this is exactly what I'm talking about.
There's also no way of knowing just what would have happened if Datsyuk hadn't broken his contract and Babcock had elected to stay.

We do know.

We'd still be a bubble team with no shot at the cup. You're clinging to this idea while simultaneously claiming we all knew we'd be crap. Obviously that's not true if you're saying stuff like that.
 
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