Holik thinks Bettman has won already

[Jarqui]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/hockey/story/283846p-243198c.html
The way Bobby Holik sees it, Gary Bettman already has won his fight with Bob Goodenow and the NHL Players Association. And like a hockey enforcer who stops punching when his opponent is down, Holik wonders what it will take for the league to stop trying to pummel its players.

"I don't like using the term 'On our knees,' because I don't like being in that position and I don't like living my life like that," Holik said yesterday. "But we gave in on the salary cap, the biggest issue. It seems to me that once we've done that, once we've agreed on the philosophy, we should be able to work out other things."

Let the Holik bashing by the PA supporters begin ? ...

Click to read more...

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

I swing more to the PA side than the owners and I'm not going to bash Holik. I think for the most part he's right. PA gave in on the cap and I assume now they are gonna lose to the NHL. It's just the NHL wants to figure out how much they want and try to make the PA lose. Both sides of these negotiants have been absolutely pathetic and disgraceful but we don't need to go over all this crap again.

 

[NHLFanSince2020]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/hockey/story/283846p-243198c.html
The way Bobby Holik sees it, Gary Bettman already has won his fight with Bob Goodenow and the NHL Players Association. And like a hockey enforcer who stops punching when his opponent is down, Holik wonders what it will take for the league to stop trying to pummel its players.

"I don't like using the term 'On our knees,' because I don't like being in that position and I don't like living my life like that," Holik said yesterday. "But we gave in on the salary cap, the biggest issue. It seems to me that once we've done that, once we've agreed on the philosophy, we should be able to work out other things."

Let the Holik bashing by the PA supporters begin ? ...

Great!

Work 'em out. Fine. Negotiate.

Is Holik expecting the NHL to totally cave in to everything else the PA wants now that they realize a salary cap must be implemented?

Negotiate, work it out, and start preparing for 05-06.

The sooner the better.

 

[me2]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/hockey/story/283846p-243198c.html
The way Bobby Holik sees it, Gary Bettman already has won his fight with Bob Goodenow and the NHL Players Association. And like a hockey enforcer who stops punching when his opponent is down, Holik wonders what it will take for the league to stop trying to pummel its players.

"I don't like using the term 'On our knees,' because I don't like being in that position and I don't like living my life like that," Holik said yesterday. "But we gave in on the salary cap, the biggest issue. It seems to me that once we've done that, once we've agreed on the philosophy, we should be able to work out other things."

Let the Holik bashing by the PA supporters begin ? ...

If Bobby G had the NHL down, would he pull his punches or go for the knockout? Knockout and nothing less. He probably take their shoes and wallet, then sell their organs on the black market for extra cash just to make a point.

I think the NHL is enjoying giving Bob Goodenow some of his own medicine back. The bigger the whooping the more the sides will want to negotiate the next time 2011-2012 CBA before it gets this ugly.

 

[mr gib]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/hockey/story/283846p-243198c.html
The way Bobby Holik sees it, Gary Bettman already has won his fight with Bob Goodenow and the NHL Players Association. And like a hockey enforcer who stops punching when his opponent is down, Holik wonders what it will take for the league to stop trying to pummel its players.

"I don't like using the term 'On our knees,' because I don't like being in that position and I don't like living my life like that," Holik said yesterday. "But we gave in on the salary cap, the biggest issue. It seems to me that once we've done that, once we've agreed on the philosophy, we should be able to work out other things."

Let the Holik bashing by the PA supporters begin ? ...

cue the basher's - insert rhetoric here -

 

[NHLFanSince2020]

Am I missing something here?

From the article, it sounds like both Holik and Daly want to negotiate.

If the rest of the PA agrees with Holik's philosophy here (and it sounds like the NHL is being well represented by Daly's comments), what's the problem?

Negotiate.

Just do it.

 

[GKJ]

Just do it.

do it.



do it.



I may be pro-PA, but if the PA collaspes like a cheap accordian I'll be a happy man if this just gets settled.


Although Holik is hardly affected by this. Guys like Chris Taylor and Jed Ortmeyer who get paid nothing will be affected by this the most.

 

[PigPen]

"Holik believes the NHLPA would move toward the owners' number if other issues were resolved in their favor."

I think that the NHL (perhaps prematurely) reached its' final position with the $40M offer and then took off some from below to reach up to $42.5M . It's never been about spliting the baby, but instead it's about how far they will go.

 

[Scoogs]

The players have always said.. well, atleast the veteran players have always said that they are fighting for the young guys. Meanwhile the young guys will get hit the hardest. If anything, the younger guys should tell the vets to shut up.

 

[NHLFanSince2020]

The players have always said.. well, atleast the veteran players have always said that they are fighting for the young guys. Meanwhile the young guys will get hit the hardest. If anything, the younger guys should tell the vets to shut up.

Exactly.
They should say "You can stop B.S.ing now".

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/hockey/story/283846p-243198c.html
The way Bobby Holik sees it, Gary Bettman already has won his fight with Bob Goodenow and the NHL Players Association. And like a hockey enforcer who stops punching when his opponent is down, Holik wonders what it will take for the league to stop trying to pummel its players.

"I don't like using the term 'On our knees,' because I don't like being in that position and I don't like living my life like that," Holik said yesterday. "But we gave in on the salary cap, the biggest issue. It seems to me that once we've done that, once we've agreed on the philosophy, we should be able to work out other things."

Let the Holik bashing by the PA supporters begin ? ...

I have supported the players during this lockout, but it is quite clear they lost and are never going to get a better deal than the one they could have negotiated last Wednesday or Saturday if they had chosen to negotiate and not wasted everybody's time, including Wayne and Mario. At this point they have nobody to blame but themselves when they end up with a far worser deal for themselves next January IMO.

 

[RedSoxNation]

Geez the guy who is at the core of what's wrong with the NHL wants to wave his $9 million flag. What a loser, the Rangers deserve this guy

 

[thinkwild]

I cant see what is wrong with Holik said. I think it was a great line of his:

The owners wont take Yes for an answer.

 

[me2]

I cant see what is wrong with Holik said. I think it was a great line of his:

The owners wont take Yes for an answer.

Holik wants his $6-7m/year. Screw the NHLPA solidarity, he wants his cash. Can't blame him, he'll never see anything like that amount of cash again.

 

[Jarqui]

I cant see what is wrong with Holik said. I think it was a great line of his:

The owners wont take Yes for an answer.

A gang from both sides flies to New York to make/receive an NHLPA proposal. How can Bettman say yes to his own proposal from last week that has already been rejected ? All he can say yes to is the players counter proposal when $49 was too high. Remember ? The proposal the players got everyone excited about last Saturday and then never made ? How do you say yes to a counter proposal never made ?

 

[likea]

whats sad is most players and some fans including Holik don't understand what this is really about. This is not about the owners winning or the players losing, it's about survival for the owners. The players have been way overpaid the past 10 years and the owners complained but they paid them, while losing million of dollars doing it. Now that the CBA expired, and the owners have the right to lockout the player, this is the only way to make the players understand how much of a loss the owners have taken. The players are trying (like anyone of us would) to hold on to what they have but they have to realize for the good of the game what they had was fictional and the game would have died if it stayed on its current path in alot of cities...alot more than we probably could guess.

also

to grow the game every team needs a chance to be competitive, and it was not so under the old CBA and that hurt the game in a ton of markets. Teams need to be able to sell to their fans that they can have a chnace at the playoffs each and every year with good management. Money cannot be the main factor in deciding championships.

 

[GirardIsStupid]

I swing more to the PA side than the owners and I'm not going to bash Holik. I think for the most part he's right. PA gave in on the cap and I assume now they are gonna lose to the NHL. It's just the NHL wants to figure out how much they want and try to make the PA lose. Both sides of these negotiants have been absolutely pathetic and disgraceful but we don't need to go over all this crap again.

i disagree with holik. i believe there's still a strong philosophical divide. the owners want to eliminate all potential mechanisms that would allow inflation of player salaries independent of league revenues. the players, in contrast, want some form of a market that has the potential for their salaries to rise if they can push the right buttons (ie. use of arbitration). the players have given in quite a bit and its up to the rich owners to link the gap between the small market fear mongerers and the player's stance of having some type of market by sharing their revenues. that is now the ultimate compromise.

 

[mr gib]

i disagree with holik. i believe there's still a strong philosophical divide. the owners want to eliminate all potential mechanisms that would allow inflation of player salaries independent of league revenues. the players, in contrast, want some form of a market that has the potential for their salaries to rise if they can push the right buttons (ie. use of arbitration). the players have given in quite a bit and its up to the rich owners to link the gap between the small market fear mongerers and the player's stance of having some type of market by sharing their revenues. that is now the ultimate compromise.

the nfl has had serious revenue sharing since 1961 - that's what piss' off the player's -

 

[shveik]

If Bobby G had the NHL down, would he pull his punches or go for the knockout? Knockout and nothing less. He probably take their shoes and wallet, then sell their organs on the black market for extra cash just to make a point.

I think the NHL is enjoying giving Bob Goodenow some of his own medicine back. The bigger the whooping the more the sides will want to negotiate the next time 2011-2012 CBA before it gets this ugly.

There a few things though:

1. The more owners want, the longer time it will take to get it. Even if you beleive that cap is necessary for the league to exist(which I do not) the NHL has already spent a year to get it. If they want to get more, they might just waste another season. I do not like that. Is it worth it?

2. Like I said before, they might just piss the players off, and make it about principle. Turn "till first blood" kind of fight into no holds barred. Again, is it worth it? We will lose more hockey, for what?

3. If the conditions are too tight, we might see a strike *before* the new CBA is up. And the mess will continue.

 

[Sanderson]

Um, there can't be a strike while a CBA is running, at least not if it was negotiated by both parties involved.

The old CBA had a no strike/lockout clause and the new one will be no different.

 

[futurcorerock]

There a few things though:

1. The more owners want, the longer time it will take to get it. Even if you beleive that cap is necessary for the league to exist(which I do not) the NHL has already spent a year to get it. If they want to get more, they might just waste another season. I do not like that. Is it worth it?

2. Like I said before, they might just piss the players off, and make it about principle. Turn "till first blood" kind of fight into no holds barred. Again, is it worth it? We will lose more hockey, for what?

3. If the conditions are too tight, we might see a strike *before* the new CBA is up. And the mess will continue.

You make it sound like the union is 100% solid, and that this cap deal that the owners are holding for is going to end in strike.

Have you heard anything in the news within the last month?

 

[shveik]

Um, there can't be a strike while a CBA is running, at least not if it was negotiated by both parties involved.

The old CBA had a no strike/lockout clause and the new one will be no different.

Thanks, wasn't aware of that.

 

[me2]

Thanks, wasn't aware of that.

for the details


http://www.nhlcbanews.com/cba/article7.html

ARTICLE 7
No Strike, No Discrimination and Other Undertakings

7.1. (a) Neither the NHLPA nor any player shall authorize, encourage, or engage in any strike, work stoppage, slowdown or other concerted interference with the activities of any Club or of the League during the term of this Agreement. Nor shall any player decline to play or practice or in concert with any other person otherwise interfere with the activities of any Club or the League, or individually or in concert encourage any other player to do so because of picketing or a labor dispute involving any other labor organization. The NHLPA shall not support or condone any action of any player which is not in accordance with this Section 7.01 and the NHLPA shall exert reasonable efforts to induce compliance therewith.

(b) Neither the League nor any Club shall engage in a lockout during the term of this Agreement.

7.2. Neither the NHLPA, the NHL, nor any Club shall discriminate against or in favor of any player because of religion, race, color, national origin, sex, age, marital status, or membership or non-membership in or support of or non-support of any labor organization.

7.3. No player who is a party to a Player Contract with a Club shall, during the term of such Player Contract (including any permissible option year that has been properly exercised by the Player or Club, as the case may be), enter into negotiations with another Club.

 

[me2]

There a few things though:

1. The more owners want, the longer time it will take to get it. Even if you beleive that cap is necessary for the league to exist(which I do not) the NHL has already spent a year to get it. If they want to get more, they might just waste another season. I do not like that. Is it worth it?

2. Like I said before, they might just piss the players off, and make it about principle. Turn "till first blood" kind of fight into no holds barred. Again, is it worth it? We will lose more hockey, for what?

3. If the conditions are too tight, we might see a strike *before* the new CBA is up. And the mess will continue.

Sure it'll piss them off. They spent the last 10 years pissing off the owners. Call it even.

At the next CBA the players know the owners will stand tough, the owners know the players will be better prepared. The owners will have more ground to give. Neither side is likely to want to go through this again, so hopefully Goodenow shoves his deadline hunting tactics up his *** and they negotiate a new CBA in advance.

 

[shveik]

Sure it'll piss them off. They spent the last 10 years pissing off the owners. Call it even.

Wait, I thought the last CBA was to compensate for the one before that, that was very unfair to the players. Shouldn't we call it even *now* and get a CBA fair to both parties?

At the next CBA the players know the owners will stand tough, the owners know the players will be better prepared. The owners will have more ground to give. Neither side is likely to want to go through this again, so hopefully Goodenow shoves his deadline hunting tactics up his *** and they negotiate a new CBA in advance.

Look, if you are fine with waiting longer to get a deal done that will leave one side unhappy, what can I do. I am quite fine with waiting as long as they can reach a deal acceptable to both parties, but I really do not like the concept of going back and forth and losing a season or two every time the CBA is up.