HOH Top 60 Wingers List & Voting Record - TheDevilMadeMe
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Dennis Bonvie
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TheDevilMadeMe
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I think he could have used a discussion, especially with Reg Noble ending up at spot #60. Hay was something of a star in the WCHL (not sure how good) before coming to the consolidated NHL and immediately being named the 1st Team All-Star LW on more than one of those unofficial GM-voted teams (with prime Joliat his direct competition). Selected to the prestigious 1958 HHOF class (while Noble had to wait for one of the mass classes of the early 60s).
That alone isn't reason to add him, but I think it's reason to discuss him.
Though truth be told, I would have liked to discuss not only Hay (who I had 55th) but any of the players I had between 60-64 over most of the guys we had available the last vote of the project. We ended up giving Reg Noble the 60th overall spot, but I wonder if it was just due to lack of better options who were available for the vote.
And yeah, I had Noble 56th on my initial list (back to back with Hay). As Hardyvan likes to point out, Noble's something of a mystery player who was highly thought of by his peers, so I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt on Round 1. Wasn't as impressed by what we found in Round 2 so I lowered his ranking accordingly.
I still feel like Noble is something of a mystery, despite being added to our final list at #60.
unknown33
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- Dec 8, 2009
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Quite interesting that there is a big uncertainty just with the magical last spot, #57-#59 making it quite decisively.
Might make the whole discussion obsolete if the project is repeated again in quite a few years with EXACTLY 60 spots.
Ohashi_Jouzu*
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Some other comments about my list:
- I basically considered Richard and Hull equals, so I gave Richard the tiebreak for two reasons - a) conventional wisdom (the majority who saw them both play seem to have preferred Richard); and b) because I knew Hull would get the large majority of support on hfboards. In round 2, I was actually more sold on Richard over Hull being more than just breaking a tie, though I certainly think one can justify having them in either order.
- Too bad the guy who accused me of being a Makarov hater during Vote 1 seems to have disappeared, so he won't see that I had him tied for highest of anyone. I guess the guys who accused me of being a Jagr hater and the guy who accused me of being a Hull hater can keep fighting the good fight.
- I hate that I was forced to have Mikhailov in my top 4 before Firsov became available. The project really could have benefited from a comparison between the two, IMO.
- Having Bure and Drillon back to back on my Round 1 list was was deliberate - Drillon actually put up better numbers relative to his peers, and I thought his weaknesses weren't much worse than Bure's. In round 2, I decided I overrated Drillon - that his lack of any possession game was a bigger weakness than simply not playing defense. Bure is one of the few times where I think my original rank was more justifiable than the panel's final rank, though in the end, it is only a difference of 7 spots.
- I think that 80s forwards can sometimes get overrated here due to high raw numbers, but I overcompensated by having Kurri and Hull a bit too low in Round 1. I think I fixed this in Round 2 (though I still had Hull lower than most).
- I used the VsX tables as one of several guides when creating my list, which led me to underrating some guys who were at their best in the early 70s (notably Cournoyer), as I didn't think about the effect of the 70s Bruins breaking the system.
- Cy Denneny is a guy I was higher on than most before discussions and lower on than most after discussions.
TheDevilMadeMe
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Yeah. If nothing else, Patrick Kane probably makes the list with ease in a few years, barring injuries or other unforeseen circumstances.
The G Man
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Alexander Ovechkin and Ted Lindsay would be his competition for 8th, 9th, and 10th. I did swap him and Lindsay in Round 2, though I could easily swap them back to how I originally had it today.
The G Man
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Granted, I'm biased of course, but I'd put him ahead of Jagr, Makarov, Ovechkin, and Lindsey. Not familiar enough with Bill Cook's career to comment on him.
Canadiens1958
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TheDevilMadeMe
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I didn't think Gainey's superior defense made up for the superior offense of other defensive guys like Provost, Northcott, and Dumart. Likewise, Bob Pulford just missed the cut for my top 80 and I'm not sure I'd have Gainey over him. As for Ramsay, his offense is better, but I don't think he has a history of defensive excellence in the playoffs quite like some of the other guys I ranked towards the bottom of my list.
