HOH Top 60 Wingers List & Voting Record - Canadiens1958

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Round 1 List
HOH Top 60 Wingers List & Voting Record - Canadiens1958 - HFBoards

Players from our final top 60 not ranked in this top 60
Paul Kariya at 61
John LeClair at 62
Helmut Balderis at 66
Babe Dye at 67
Tommy Phillips at 72
Rick Middleton at 74
Bryan Hextall at 75
Cecil Dillon at 77
Theo Fleury at 80
Roy Conacher (not ranked)
Gordie Drillon (not ranked)
Rod Gilbert (not ranked)
Paul Thompson (not ranked)
Ilya Kovalchuk (not ranked)
Reg Noble (not ranked)

Players unique to this list
Allan "Scotty" Davidson
Dick Duff
Don McKenney
Gary Roberts

Players ranked highest overall on this list
Maurice Richard (tied with 2 others)
Mike Bossy
Aurele Joliat
Dickie Moore
Alexander Yakushev
Syd Howe
Bob Gainey
Michel Goulet (tied with 1 other)
George Armstrong
Bob Pulford
Steve Shutt
Jere Lehtinen (tied with 1 other)
Claude Provost (tied with 1 other)
Daniel Sedin
Craig Ramsay
Marc Tardif

Players ranked 2nd highest on this list
Guy Lafleur (tied with 14 others)
Charlie Conacher (tied with 3 others)
Johnny Bucyk (tied with 1 other)
Hakan Loob
Dean Prentice

Players ranked lowest overall on this list
Bobby Hull (tied with 4 others)
Jaromir Jagr
Alexander Ovechkin
Andy Bathgate
Babe Dye

Players ranked 2nd lowest on this list
Sergei Makarov
Doug Bentley
Paul Kariya
Tommy Phillips
Bryan Hextall

Canadiens1958

Round 2 Voting

Higher than anyone else

Vote 1 - Bossy in 4th
Vote 2 - Bossy in 1st
Vote 3 - Mahovlich in 3rd
Vote 4 - Joliat in 1st
Vote 6 - Bucyk in 5th
Vote 7 - S Howe in 1st, Schriner in 2nd, Goulet in 6th
Vote 11 - Olmstead in 3rd
Vote 12 - Gainey in 1st, Olmstead in 2nd
Vote 13 - Gainey in 1st

Lower than anyone else

Vote 1 - Jagr in 6th
Vote 3 - Ovechkin in 7th
Vote 4 - Bathgate not ranked
Vote 7 - Bentley in 9th
Vote 9 - Conacher not ranked

Click to read more...

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

He definitely likes defensive wingers from teams that won a lot.

 

[kmad]

Props for the gutsy ranking of Daniel Sedin

 

[Canadiens1958]

Well......

He definitely likes defensive wingers from teams that won a lot.

Selanne ahead of Kurri.Goulet ahead of Cournoyer.Iginla ahead of Bucyk,Gainey Cournoyer. Doug Bentley ahead of Armstrong. Gartner ahead of Provost. Shutt and Daniel Sedin certainly not defensive wingers.

 

[MXD]

Selanne ahead of Kurri.Goulet ahead of Cournoyer.Iginla ahead of Bucyk,Gainey Cournoyer. Doug Bentley ahead of Armstrong. Gartner ahead of Provost. Shutt and Daniel Sedin certainly not defensive wingers.

I think Sedin is way better defensively than what he's being credited for.

 

[Hardyvan123]

He definitely likes defensive wingers from teams that won a lot.

Yes that's an understatement but I'm wondering exactly when AO passed Gainey on his list as Gainey is right behind AO.

Also the Jagr behind Bossy and Lafleur is extremely questionable.

a really strange list, but then again mine will be as well.

 

[MXD]

Yes that's an understatement but I'm wondering exactly when AO passed Gainey on his list as Gainey is right behind AO.

Also the Jagr behind Bossy and Lafleur is extremely questionable.

a really strange list, but then again mine will be as well.

No, Jagr behind Lafleur is absolutely not questionnable... Like, you don't see things this way, and I dont either, but its not questionable.

They ended up back-to-back both in aggregate and in Round 2, only the other way.

 

[seventieslord]

11 of the 21 rated higher than anyone else (or second highest) are habs or O6 players.

2 out of 10 rated lowest or second lowest fall into those categories.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Andy Bathgate 34th, just behind Martin St. Louis, Yvan Cournoyer and Michel Goulet.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Irony.

Yes that's an understatement but I'm wondering exactly when AO passed Gainey on his list as Gainey is right behind AO.

Also the Jagr behind Bossy and Lafleur is extremely questionable.

a really strange list, but then again mine will be as well.

Certain irony in your comment. If Ovechkin had played the same quality of hockey in the pre Barry Trotz days then he would have been higher in my ratings.

BUT he did not. Conversely presently Ovechkin's VsX is much lower than it was during the pre Trotz period. So the rest of the participants might have rated him much lower as a result even though team success might have been better.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Zone Starts

I think Sedin is way better defensively than what he's being credited for.

Daniel Sedin offers the best synergy between a LW and a Center that I have ever seen. Regardless of the "twin" factor a very important consideration for offensive and defensive play.

If the Canucks had invested the same time and effort working on the Sedin's defensive game instead of relying on Zone Starts we would have a much better appreciation of their overall talents.

 

[thom]

1st of all Lafleur should be ahead of Jagr-No question not even close-Did Jagr ever lead a team to a cup-never.Jagr reminds me of a Dionne-a goal suck who was a me player.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

1st of all Lafleur should be ahead of Jagr-No question not even close-Did Jagr ever lead a team to a cup-never.Jagr reminds me of a Dionne-a goal suck who was a me player.

Did Lafleur ever "lead" a team to a Cup? Seems like the Canadiens had a pretty solid ensemble there for you to confidently pick one guy out as the driver.

 

[thom]

Guy Lafleur led team to 4 cups-Led play-offs in scoring 3 times,Played with Lemaire,Maholovich both borderline elite players.I would Argue Shutt has no business in Hull of Fame.1978-79-Lafleur led team in scoring by 52 pts.Who did Lafleur have to play with again

 

[Bear of Bad News]

You're free to your opinion, I guess.

 

[thom]

Think about this Folks-Guy Lafleur had nearly 400 more assists then his centermen he played with in his prime-Think about this he had 8 fights all before 1976.Even his last full season led team in scoring-Compare Lafleurs teamates with Richard,Jagr,Bossy he had no one of the elite variety

 

[ResilientBeast]

I think Jagr over Lafleur is defensible since Jagr's prime was longer and sure he never pulled a team completely by himself. But neither did Lafleur the 1970s Habs were quite a stacked team with possibly the greatest top 4 defense ever on one team and a top 10 goalie of all time.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Wait - you're using Lafleur's fight record to prove that he led teams to Cups? That made my morning.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Guy Lafleur and Boxing

Wait - you're using Lafleur's fight record to prove that he led teams to Cups? That made my morning.

Then this should make your day:

http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Jack+Todd+Fisher+about+respect/6753811/story.html

Thom was referring to a fact that is not known by many. Simply adding to the data base about Guy Lafleur the other attributes he brought to the rink.

It is also part of the explanation for Lafleur's incredible stamina dispite being a chain smoker. Guy Lafleur was able to go thru a 3 minute shadow boxing routine that was the envy of any elite pro boxer.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Then this should make your day:

I'm hoping that the Seattle Seahawks make my day.

As for Lafleur, I know that he has fought. I don't consider that as much of an asset as others, apparently.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Trained as a Boxer

I'm hoping that the Seattle Seahawks make my day.

As for Lafleur, I know that he has fought. I don't consider that as much of an asset as others, apparently.

Fighting and training as a boxer are two opposites. Developing the stamina to go 10-15 rounds as was possible in the 1970s and 1980s despite smoking makes it very easy to play one to two minute shifts.

 

[thom]

1958-There are 2 canadians playing-Ryan,Wilson the TE

 

[Killion]

It is also part of the explanation for Lafleur's incredible stamina dispite being a chain smoker. Guy Lafleur was able to go thru a 3 minute shadow boxing routine that was the envy of any elite pro boxer.

Yes I seem to recall reading that he hired a Boxing Trainer to oversee his conditioning & workout regimen prior to his return from retirement as he only had a couple of weeks really before the start of training camp with New York. Using boxing as the basis for conditioning accelerates the process, and as Lafleur rather amusingly commented when asked about it at the time, said "no, Im not taking Boxing lessons so I can come back as a Goon"..... And speaking of Guy, and totally Off Topic but hey ho, he's in the middle of a Civil Suit in Montreal at the moment I believe, suing the Police & Crown for $2.1M in lost sponsorship & endorsement contracts back in 2008 claiming Wrongful Arrest in connection with his wayward Son's nonsense.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Makarov 19th.

Syd Howe 18th.

Better yet, Yakushev 14th.

How's that come to fruition?

 

[MXD]

I think Jagr over Lafleur is defensible since Jagr's prime was longer and sure he never pulled a team completely by himself. But neither did Lafleur the 1970s Habs were quite a stacked team with possibly the greatest top 4 defense ever on one team and a top 10 goalie of all time.

I... Think the whole point was the contrary : Lafleur ahead of Jagr supposedly not being defensible.