HOH Top 60 Defensemen of All Time

[Kyle McMahon]

Boy am I embarrassed by my comments on page 1. Forgive me please fellas. I've learned much since my rookie season. Thank you vets.

Anyways, any chance things change and my boy Sergei Zubov cracks this list if he gets the HHOF nod this month?

I tweeted to Putin the other day, asking him to pull some strings for his fellow Ruskie.

Historical perspective of Zubov's career would need to change in a significant positive manner for him to climb the ranks in retirement. Not impossible, but I wouldn't bet on it. Doug Wilson just snuck onto the list, and he seems like the most obvious comparable to Zubov. And Wilson is probably a guy who is no longer on the list in another few years as active players ascend the ranks.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Historical perspective of Zubov's career would need to change in a significant positive manner for him to climb the ranks in retirement. Not impossible, but I wouldn't bet on it. Doug Wilson just snuck onto the list, and he seems like the most obvious comparable to Zubov. And Wilson is probably a guy who is no longer on the list in another few years as active players ascend the ranks.

I think there are a good number of us (maybe even a consensus) who think that Harvey Pulford was ranked too high. So another defenseman probably takes his place if this list is done now. Is that Zubov? Probably not. He wasn't all that close to making the list last time.

Plus, as you basically say, Karlsson and Keith easily rank over Zubov (and Wilson) right now. Weber and Doughty have good cases, as well.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Boy am I embarrassed by my comments on page 1. Forgive me please fellas. I've learned much since my rookie season. Thank you vets.

Anyways, any chance things change and my boy Sergei Zubov cracks this list if he gets the HHOF nod this month?

I tweeted to Putin the other day, asking him to pull some strings for his fellow Ruskie.

Who would you rank between Zubov and Hatcher if only looking at their Dallas years? I know you're a big Dallas fan so this is why I ask.

Also, don't worry about your posts from 2011, you're not alone being embarrassed by old posts you made.

 

[66871]

I would be interested in reading about how the Soviet-era players who entered the NHL in their 30s were evaluated and how their pre-NHL careers were evaluated and weighted against other players. Does anyone know in which threads I would find that info. Or if someone wants to give an overview, I would appreciate it.

 

[MXD]

Boy am I embarrassed by my comments on page 1. Forgive me please fellas. I've learned much since my rookie season. Thank you vets.

Anyways, any chance things change and my boy Sergei Zubov cracks this list if he gets the HHOF nod this month?

I tweeted to Putin the other day, asking him to pull some strings for his fellow Ruskie.

Actually your interventions were... pretty measured, no?

 

[Theokritos]

I would be interested in reading about how the Soviet-era players who entered the NHL in their 30s were evaluated and how their pre-NHL careers were evaluated and weighted against other players. Does anyone know in which threads I would find that info. Or if someone wants to give an overview, I would appreciate it.

Fetisov was mostly discussed in the thread for Vote 2. Vasilyev in the Vote 5 thread. Kasatonov in the Vote 7 and in the Vote 8 threads.

Actually your interventions were... pretty measured, no?

Indeed, definitely nothing to be ashamed of.

 

[66871]

Fetisov was mostly discussed in the thread for Vote 2. Vasilyev in the Vote 5 thread. Kasatonov in the Vote 7 and in the Vote 8 threads.

Thank you. Very informative. I'm not sure I would have any of them quite that high -- but great reads.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

It would be interesting to see where Doughty and Karlson would be on this list if this project had been started this year. Doughty looks to be on his way to another Norris Trophy at this point.

 

[BenchBrawl]

It would be interesting to see where Doughty and Karlson would be on this list if this project had been started this year. Doughty looks to be on his way to another Norris Trophy at this point.

Doughty should pass Blake this year.

Karlsson very hard to give a value to.Few comparables due to extreme high peak, weird style of play (with great strenghts and weaknesses (at least for a time)) and short career (he started only one year after Doughty, but lost almost a whole year and played less in the playoffs).I rank Keith ahead of him, that's the first inequality I would build on to figure out a good ranking.

Weber's Norris record is outstanding by this point.Playoffs resume mediocre.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Karlsson easily cracks the list. Where is tough to gauge. He's polarizing because most people just assume he's a crappy defensive player which hasn't been true for a couple of years now and I think some would penalizing him to harshly there. 2 Norris wins with another 2 runner ups before the age of 27 is mighty impressive. And he just came off a tremendous postseason run where he got the Sens within 1 game of the SCF, literally playing on 1 good foot. Has a pretty strong international resume already as well.

Doughty isn't as impressive a regular season performer as Karlsson but he certainly has a pair of outstanding playoff runs and Cups to his name. Great on the international stage as well. He makes it rather easily now I think.

Weber to me is overrated somewhat. Sure he's got some postseason AS nods and a few Norris finalist finishes but he has absolutely zero playoff decorations even though he was on many Preds teams that made the dance. I think he's clearly behind the other 2 guys. He gets inside the top 60 if you hold AS and Norris finishes higher than most. I wouldn't put him above a guy like Larry Murphy who sits at 50 on that list.

 

[Michael Farkas]

just assume he's a crappy defensive player which hasn't been true for a couple of years now

Just wanted to back this for its correctness. Das it.

 

[blogofmike]

I actually think Karlsson had a bad start to this year and has lived down to his reputation. In the last few years he's been unfairly cast as a bad defensive guy when he was actually good. This year hasn't been going his way yet.

 

[psycat]

Doughty should pass Blake this year.

Karlsson very hard to give a value to.Few comparables due to extreme high peak, weird style of play (with great strenghts and weaknesses (at least for a time)) and short career (he started only one year after Doughty, but lost almost a whole year and played less in the playoffs).I rank Keith ahead of him, that's the first inequality I would build on to figure out a good ranking.

Weber's Norris record is outstanding by this point.Playoffs resume mediocre.

Regarding Karlsson there is an obvious historical comparsion though, you know who im talking about.

Agreed that he should be ranked below Keith so far but if he bounce back that will change pretty soon. Both are clearly above Doughty.

(Weber is overrated)

 

[ImporterExporter]

I actually think Karlsson had a bad start to this year and has lived down to his reputation. In the last few years he's been unfairly cast as a bad defensive guy when he was actually good. This year hasn't been going his way yet.

Yeah, it's been a bit of a step back for Karlsson but there are 2 reasons that come into play. One, the Sens are an absolute dumpster fire and two, he missed all offseason recovering from a bad injury/surgery. He literally had no game action until he started playing a few weeks into the season. There was going to be a period of rust to work off. I for one, really hope he leaves Ottawa because he's a generational talent and I want to see him in a situation that helps bring the absolute best out of him. I honestly believe he can end up being a top 10 defensemen of all time under the right circumstances.

 

[Kaapo Kakko]

Some of the rankings are very strange.

 

[Michael Farkas]

So is bumping a thread with no posts in the last two years to say exactly nothing...

 

[The Macho King]

So is bumping a thread with no posts in the last two years to say exactly nothing...

Odd but now that I'm looking at the list I'm interested in what current players jump on the list, and I think I would move around some of the players slightly. Wouldn't mind re-doing this one with some fresh discussion.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Odd but now that I'm looking at the list I'm interested in what current players jump on the list, and I think I would move around some of the players slightly. Wouldn't mind re-doing this one with some fresh discussion.

FWIW, the players who are up for potential re-ranking due to retirement after this project was finished (February 2012):

#5 Nicklas Lidstrom (retired 2012)
#22 Chris Pronger (retired 2012)
#42 Zdeno Chara (will retire 2029)

Also #33 Scott Niedermayer, #44 Rob Blake, and missed-the-cut Sergei Zubov retired just before the project began, so we might reconsider their rankings with more hindsight.

Potential additions who hadn't yet made their case in 2012:
Drew Doughty
Victor Hedman
Erik Karlsson
Duncan Keith

 

[Voight]

FWIW, the players who are up for potential re-ranking due to retirement after this project was finished (February 2012):

#5 Nicklas Lidstrom (retired 2012)
#22 Chris Pronger (retired 2012)
#42 Zdeno Chara (will retire 2029)

Also #33 Scott Niedermayer, #44 Rob Blake, and missed-the-cut Sergei Zubov retired just before the project began, so we might reconsider their rankings with more hindsight.

Potential additions who hadn't yet made their case in 2012:
Drew Doughty
Victor Hedman
Erik Karlsson
Duncan Keith

I don't see Lidstrom moving up at all. Pronger as well, IIRC by Feb 2012 he hadn't played since November or something because of his concussion issues. Chara however added two more Norris nominations, in 2012 & 2014 so there is potential there.

Keith surely makes the list now. Added another Norris/1st AST, plus a 2nd AST as well as his historic 2015 playoff run that resulted in a Conn Smythe.

Doughty/Karlsson also have good cases, especially when you take into account Doughty's international play.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

So is bumping a thread with no posts in the last two years to say exactly nothing...

adam graves rules

 

[MXD]

Doughty, Keith and Karlsson make this list today (and easily at that). Shea Weber, too (but rather easily instead of just easily, and that's without considering the very significant Norris support he's getting). On the fence for Hedman.

 

[sr edler]

Also, don't worry about your posts from 2011, you're not alone being embarrassed by old posts you made.

I'm embarrassed by posts I made 2019.


(just kidding they're all brilliant)

 

[tarheelhockey]

Doughty, Keith and Karlsson make this list today (and easily at that). Shea Weber, too (but rather easily instead of just easily, and that's without considering the very significant Norris support he's getting). On the fence for Hedman.

Yeah, I overlooked Weber because I was using the Norris winners list as a point of reference. But the overall Norris voting and AS finishes show Weber already being substantially past e.g. Doug Wilson and definitely on the list now. Not that it's all about award finishes, but a Wilson-Weber comparison can easily come down to that.

 

[Voight]

Yeah, I overlooked Weber because I was using the Norris winners list as a point of reference. But the overall Norris voting and AS finishes show Weber already being substantially past e.g. Doug Wilson and definitely on the list now. Not that it's all about award finishes, but a Wilson-Weber comparison can easily come down to that.

Weber also being a key cog in two Gold Medal Olympic teams.

Also has the 2016 WCH, but at that point Doughty was the premier Canadian defenseman.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Doughty, Keith, Karlsson and Weber are locks to make the list, probably inside the Top 40.

Chara should get bumped up to around 20-25.

Hedman not sure, but soon to be a lock. Tampa's collapse leaves a bad taste here.

Edit:

Doughty, Keith and Karlsson make this list today (and easily at that). Shea Weber, too (but rather easily instead of just easily, and that's without considering the very significant Norris support he's getting). On the fence for Hedman.

^Basically this.