HOH Top 60 Defensemen List & Voting Record - reckoning

[overpass]

reckoning

Rank | Player
1 | Bobby Orr
2 | Doug Harvey
3 | Eddie Shore
4 | Nicklas Lidstrom
5 | Ray Bourque
6 | Red Kelly
7 | Denis Potvin
8 | Slava Fetisov
9 | Larry Robinson
10 | Tim Horton
11 | King Clancy
12 | Dit Clapper
13 | Pierre Pilote
14 | Chris Chelios
15 | Brad Park
16 | Al MacInnis
17 | Earl Seibert
18 | Paul Coffey
19 | Bill Gadsby
20 | Jack Stewart
21 | Scott Stevens
22 | Chris Pronger
23 | Sprague Cleghorn
24 | Serge Savard
25 | Valeri Vasiliev
26 | Bill Quackenbush
27 | Brian Leetch
28 | Mark Howe
29 | Jacques Laperriere
30 | Lionel Conacher
31 | Ken Reardon
32 | Guy LaPointe
33 | Moose Johnson
34 | Jan Suchy
35 | Rod Langway
36 | Borje Salming
37 | Butch Bouchard
38 | Ebbie Goodfellow
39 | Scott Niedermayer
40 | Eddie Gerard
41 | Harvey Pulford
42 | Zdeno Chara
43 | Carl Brewer
44 | Marcel Pronovost
45 | Larry Murphy
46 | Sergei Zubov
47 | Rob Blake
48 | Gary Suter
49 | Alexei Kasatonov
50 | George Boucher
51 | Hod Stuart
52 | Herb Gardiner
53 | Alexander Ragulin
54 | Eric Desjardins
55 | Brad McCrimmon
56 | Sylvio Mantha
57 | Tom Johnson
58 | Harry Howell
59 | J.C. Tremblay
60 | Allan Stanley
61 | Fern Flaman
62 | Ching Johnson
63 | Lionel Hitchman
64 | Harry Cameron
65 | Babe Pratt
66 | Red Dutton
67 | Si Griffis
68 | Adam Foote
69 | Phil Housley
70 | Gus Mortson
71 | Derian Hatcher
72 | Nikolai Sologubov
73 | Doug Wilson
74 | Mike Grant
75 | Vladimir Konstantinov
76 | Art Coulter
77 | Lester Patrick
78 | Jimmy Thomson
79 | Sergei Gonchar
80 | Brian Rafalski

Players from the Top 60 not to appear on this list
Babe Siebert
Frantisek Pospisil

Players ranked highest overall on this list
Tim Horton (10)
Dit Clapper (12)
Jack Stewart (20)
Gary Suter (48)
Eric Desjardins (54)

Players ranked lowest overall on this list
Chris Chelios* (14)
Doug Wilson (73)

Players unique to this list
None

*tie

Round | Rank 1 | Rank 2 | Rank 3 | Rank 4 | Rank 5 | Rank 6 | Rank 7 | Rank 8 | Rank 9 | Rank 10
Round 1|Bobby Orr|Doug Harvey|Eddie Shore|Nicklas Lidstrom|Ray Bourque|Red Kelly|Denis Potvin|Viacheslav Fetisov|Larry Robinson|Chris Chelios
Round 2|Red Kelly|Denis Potvin|Viacheslav Fetisov|Larry Robinson| King Clancy| Chris Chelios| Pierre Pilote| Brad Park| Al MacInnis|Paul Coffey
Round 3|Tim Horton|King Clancy|Pierre Pilote|Brad Park|Al MacInnis|Earl Seibert|Paul Coffey|Chris Pronger|Scott Stevens|Sprague Cleghorn
Round 4| Tim Horton| Dit Clapper| Al MacInnis| Earl Seibert| Bill Gadsby| Chris Pronger| Scott Stevens| Serge Savard| Valeri Vasiliev| Brian Leetch
Round 5| Dit Clapper| Bill Gadsby| Jack Stewart| Serge Savard| Valeri Vasiliev*| Bill Quackenbush| Brian Leetch| Mark Howe| Rod Langway| Guy Lapointe
Round 6|Jack Stewart|Serge Savard|Bill Quackenbush|Mark Howe|Lionel Conacher|Jacques Laperriere|Rod Langway|Emile "Butch" Bouchard|Guy Lapointe|Scott Niedermayer
Round 7|Jack Stewart|Jacques Laperriere|Lionel Conacher|Emile "Butch" Bouchard|Guy Lapointe|Ebbie Goodfellow|Scott Niedermayer|Zdeno Chara|Carl Brewer|Larry Murphy
Round 8|Jacques Laperriere|Ernest "Moose" Johnson|Jan Suchy|Emile "Butch" Bouchard|Ebbie Goodfellow|Zdeno Chara|Hod Stuart|Carl Brewer|Larry Murphy|Alexei Kasatonov
Round 9|Ernest "Moose" Johnson|Jan Suchy|Ken Reardon|Zdeno Chara|Emile "Butch" Bouchard|Ebbie Goodfellow|Carl Brewer|Larry Murphy|Rob Blake|Georges "Buck" Boucher
Round 10|Jan Suchy|Ken Reardon|Carl Brewer|Larry Murphy|Georges "Buck" Boucher|Alexander Ragulin|Allan Stanley|Sylvio Mantha|Tom Johnson|Harry Howell
Round 11|Ken Reardon|Harvey Pulford|Sergei Zubov|Alexander Ragulin|Allan Stanley|Sylvio Mantha|Lester Patrick|Tom Johnson|Harry Howell|Fern Flaman
Round 12|Harvey Pulford|Sergei Zubov|Alexander Ragulin|Allan Stanley|Sylvio Mantha|Harry Howell|Fern Flaman|Harry Cameron|Babe Pratt|Frantisek Pospisil

Click to read more...

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

A little surprised that this wasn't the lowest ranking for Salming.

Desjardins at 54 is ballsy, but I like it. I don't like Gary Suter at 45.

Also interesting to see the very high opinion of Sergie Zubov (one spot over Rob Blake with Gary Suter only one spot below Blake?)

 

[seventieslord]

I'm cherrypicking when I say this, but Horton over Chelios?

a good list though.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I'm surprised we haven't seen "OMG, Lidstrom over Bourque! You noob!" (I think it's perfectly defensible, even though I wouldn't rank them that way).

I think it's obvious from some of the rankings (Lidstrom over Bourque, Horton and Zubov so high, Salming so low, Foote and Rafalski listed) that reckoning places a higher emphasis on contribution to team success than most voters.

 

[reckoning]

Some good arguments from the posters in the voting threads convinced me that I had underrated Chelios, Chara, Stanley and Pospisil on my original list, something that I tried to correct on the weekly votes.

My high ranking of Dit Clapper was because I was looking at his entire career, though it became apparent during the voting that most of the other posters were only considering his years on defence. I'm still not sure which is right.

Suter and Desjardins both got bumped up because I felt after my first draft that 90s defencemen were being underrepresented, and maybe I was being too biased towards the players from the 70s and 80s over them. I view them both as guys with long, respectable careers as dependable, productive players. If defencemen had a stat for two-way play that they could accumulate over their career similar to points for forwards, they'd both have good career numbers and might be rated higher by more people, despite the lack of a Norris season.

I'm very surprised that my rating for J.C. Tremblay (#59) wasn't his lowest.

And yes, when I couldn't decide between two players, team success was usually the tiebreaker.

 

[overpass]

Some good arguments from the posters in the voting threads convinced me that I had underrated Chelios, Chara, Stanley and Pospisil on my original list, something that I tried to correct on the weekly votes.

My high ranking of Dit Clapper was because I was looking at his entire career, though it became apparent during the voting that most of the other posters were only considering his years on defence. I'm still not sure which is right.

Suter and Desjardins both got bumped up because I felt after my first draft that 90s defencemen were being underrepresented, and maybe I was being too biased towards the players from the 70s and 80s over them. I view them both as guys with long, respectable careers as dependable, productive players. If defencemen had a stat for two-way play that they could accumulate over their career similar to points for forwards, they'd both have good career numbers and might be rated higher by more people, despite the lack of a Norris season.

I'm very surprised that my rating for J.C. Tremblay (#59) wasn't his lowest.

And yes, when I couldn't decide between two players, team success was usually the tiebreaker.

You were low on Tremblay, but we've already seen tarheelhockey list him at 62, and that wasn't Tremblay's lowest ranking.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I'm surprised we haven't seen "OMG, Lidstrom over Bourque! You noob!" (I think it's perfectly defensible, even though I wouldn't rank them that way).

I think it's obvious from some of the rankings (Lidstrom over Bourque, Horton and Zubov so high, Salming so low, Foote and Rafalski listed) that reckoning places a higher emphasis on contribution to team success than most voters.

Usually when someone ranks Lidstrom over Bourque, they also rank him over Shore and possibly Harvey.