HOH Top 60 Defensemen List & Voting Record - overpass

[overpass]

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Rank | Player
1 | Bobby Orr
2 | Eddie Shore
3 | Doug Harvey
4 | Ray Bourque
5 | Nicklas Lidstrom
6 | Denis Potvin
7 | Larry Robinson
8 | Red Kelly
9 | Slava Fetisov
10 | King Clancy
11 | Chris Chelios
12 | Brad Park
13 | Chris Pronger
14 | Al MacInnis
15 | Scott Stevens
16 | Sprague Cleghorn
17 | Pierre Pilote
18 | Earl Seibert
19 | Tim Horton
20 | Mark Howe
21 | Bill Gadsby
22 | Dit Clapper
23 | Paul Coffey
24 | Brian Leetch
25 | Borje Salming
26 | Bill Quackenbush
27 | Zdeno Chara
28 | Eddie Gerard
29 | Serge Savard
30 | Scott Niedermayer
31 | Guy Lapointe
32 | Jacques Laperriere
33 | Lionel Conacher
34 | Valeri Vasiliev
35 | Moose Johnson
36 | George Boucher
37 | Butch Bouchard
38 | Jack Stewart
39 | Ken Reardon
40 | Ebbie Goodfellow
41 | Rob Blake
42 | Tom Johnson
43 | Babe Siebert
44 | Alexei Kasatonov
45 | J.C. Tremblay
46 | Larry Murphy
47 | Doug Wilson
48 | Marcel Pronovost
49 | Harry Cameron
50 | Carl Brewer
51 | Sylvio Mantha
52 | Fern Flaman
53 | Ching Johnson
54 | Jan Suchy
55 | Jimmy Thomson
56 | Alexander Ragulin
57 | Art Coulter
58 | Lester Patrick
59 | Harvey Pulford
60 | Allan Stanley
61 | Bill White
62 | Pat Stapleton
63 | Hod Stuart
64 | Rod Langway
65 | Harry Howell
66 | Sergei Zubov
67 | Vladimir Lutchenko
68 | Art Ross
69 | Hap Day
70 | Eric Desjardins
71 | Gus Mortson
72 | Sergei Gonchar
73 | Phil Housley
74 | Derian Hatcher
75 | Joe Simpson
76 | Cy Wentworth
77 | Herb Gardiner
78 | Brad McCrimmon
79 | Adam Foote
80 | Jack Crawford

Players from the Top 60 not to appear on this list
Frantisek Pospisil

Players ranked highest overall on this list
King Clancy (10)
Jimmy Thomson (55)

Players ranked lowest overall on this list
Pierre Pilote* (17)
Paul Coffey (23)

Players unique to this list
None

*tie

Round | Rank 1 | Rank 2 | Rank 3 | Rank 4 | Rank 5 | Rank 6 | Rank 7 | Rank 8 | Rank 9 | Rank 10
Round 1|Bobby Orr|Eddie Shore|Ray Bourque|Doug Harvey|Nicklas Lidstrom|Denis Potvin|Larry Robinson|Red Kelly|Vyacheslav Fetisov|Chris Chelios
Round 2|Red Kelly|Denis Potvin|Vyacheslav Fetisov|King Clancy|Larry Robinson|Chris Chelios|Brad Park|Al MacInnis|Paul Coffey|Pierre Pilote
Round 3|King Clancy|Brad Park|Sprague Cleghorn|Chris Pronger|Pierre Pilote|Earl Seibert|Al MacInnis|Scott Stevens|Tim Horton|Paul Coffey
Round 4|Chris Pronger|Earl Seibert|Al MacInnis|Scott Stevens|Tim Horton|Dit Clapper|Brian Leetch|Borje Salming|Bill Gadsby|Serge Savard
Round 5|Dit Clapper|Brian Leetch|Borje Salming|Bill Gadsby|Mark Howe|Valeri Vasiliev|Bill Quackenbush|Scott Niedermayer|Serge Savard|Guy Lapointe
Round 6|Mark Howe|Eddie Gerard|Serge Savard|Scott Niedermayer|Bill Quackenbush|Jack Stewart|Marcel Pronovost|Guy Lapointe|J.C. Tremblay|Rod Langway
Round 7|Scott Niedermayer|Jack Stewart|Zdeno Chara|Guy Lapointe|Marcel Pronovost|Alexei Kasatonov|JC Tremblay|Jacques Laperriere|Lionel Conacher|Rob Blake
Round 8|Ching Johnson|Zdeno Chara|Alexei Kasatonov|Jacques Laperriere|JC Tremblay|Hod Stuart|Moose Johnson|Rob Blake|Larry Murphy|Ebbie Goodfellow
Round 9|Zdeno Chara|Ebbie Goodfellow|Moose Johnson|Carl Brewer|Rob Blake|Ken Reardon|Butch Bouchard|Jan Suchy|Larry Murphy|Babe Siebert
Round 10|Carl Brewer|George Boucher|Babe Siebert|Jan Suchy|Ken Reardon|Larry Murphy|Lester Patrick|Doug Wilson|Tom Johnson|Harry Cameron
Round 11|Ken Reardon|Art Coulter|Tom Johnson|Doug Wilson|Lester Patrick|Alexander Ragulin|Sergei Zubov|Allan Stanley|Harry Cameron|Fern Flaman
Round 12|Sylvio Mantha|Harry Cameron|Sergei Zubov|Allan Stanley|Frantisek Pospisil|Alexander Ragulin|Fern Flaman|Bill White|Pat Stapleton|Babe Pratt

Click to read more...

 

[overpass]

Looks like I was the lowest on Coffey. Not too surprising.

I just want to say that I'm not a reflexive Coffey hater. I struggle to rate him correctly. I hear people who saw him at his peak rave about his abilities, and I try to consider that, but I'm not sure he looks as good as he did if he played for any team other than Edmonton. In fact, I think his game was pretty hit-or-miss when he did play for other teams.

I seriously considered him as high as 12, but ended up putting him towards the bottom of a group instead of the top. It would take very little to bump him up a few spots.

 

[reckoning]

The one thing that surprises me in this list are the low rankings of Langway and McCrimmon. Especially because many other players who would be considered "defensive defencemen" are rated higher (Thomson, White, Coulter).

Putting Coffey at #23 was gutsy, but probably accurate. I think I was of the opinion that there was a limit to how low I could put him because his offence was so extraordinary. Despite that though, most of the players I had directly underneath him are players I'd rather have in my lineup.

 

[BraveCanadian]

The one thing that surprises me in this list are the low rankings of Langway and McCrimmon. Especially because many other players who would be considered "defensive defencemen" are rated higher (Thomson, White, Coulter).

Putting Coffey at #23 was gutsy, but probably accurate. I think I was of the opinion that there was a limit to how low I could put him because his offence was so extraordinary. Despite that though, most of the players I had directly underneath him are players I'd rather have in my lineup.

Whatever people's feelings on Coffey.. ranking him 9 spots below MacInnis completely flabbergasts me.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

And we find out who likes King Clancy even more than me.

Chara at 27 is gutsy, but I have a feeling that in a year or two, it'll look better than where we actually ended up ranking him.

You seem to have gotten sold on Pospisil and Zubov between rounds 1 and 2 - I believe you were one of the three high votes for Zubov in Round 2, but the others had him high on their round 1 lists too. A little surprised to see Adam Foote - does he rank highly in your adjusted stats?

 

[overpass]

The one thing that surprises me in this list are the low rankings of Langway and McCrimmon. Especially because many other players who would be considered "defensive defencemen" are rated higher (Thomson, White, Coulter).

Putting Coffey at #23 was gutsy, but probably accurate. I think I was of the opinion that there was a limit to how low I could put him because his offence was so extraordinary. Despite that though, most of the players I had directly underneath him are players I'd rather have in my lineup.

You may remember that I had McCrimmon in my top 120 back in 08, so it's a change. Partly because he only had about 5 years on a top pairing and was basically a depth dman otherwise.

One factor that explains several things is that I tried to smooth out eras a bit. So I knocked down some players from the 70s and 80s and boosted some from other decades, including the 90s and 00s. I may have gone too far there but that was my process.

I've always been a little skeptical of Langways trophies, but came around a bit on him in round 2.

 

[SillyRabbit]

How Paul Coffey is only 4 spots better than Zdeno Chara is absolutely astounding to me...

 

[overpass]

And we find out who likes King Clancy even more than me.

Chara at 27 is gutsy, but I have a feeling that in a year or two, it'll look better than where we actually ended up ranking him.

You seem to have gotten sold on Pospisil and Zubov between rounds 1 and 2 - I believe you were one of the three high votes for Zubov in Round 2, but the others had him high on their round 1 lists too. A little surprised to see Adam Foote - does he rank highly in your adjusted stats?

Foote was a case where I was looking for more representation from the 90s/00s defencemen, so that gave him an edge over, say, Mike Ramsey. He played big EV minutes and SH minutes on a top team for a long time and played for Team Canada a few times, so he had a decent case.

I could have placed Zubov a bit higher in Round 1. I've become convinced that he was a cut or two above Gonchar. Didn't know much about Pospisil.

Addressing the Coffey comments...the ranking alone is a little misleading. I had him closer to #12 than #27, but ended up putting at/near the bottom of his tier of players. I realize my opinion is a bit of a minority and I'm fine with where we ranked him. I just have trouble putting him over some players who were very good offensively and defensively.

 

[RabbinsDuck]

Notice Red Kelly passed Potvin on a number of lists.. a little surprised to see, but do not disagree with. Curious what made the difference.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

The one thing that surprises me in this list are the low rankings of Langway and McCrimmon. Especially because many other players who would be considered "defensive defencemen" are rated higher (Thomson, White, Coulter).

Putting Coffey at #23 was gutsy, but probably accurate. I think I was of the opinion that there was a limit to how low I could put him because his offence was so extraordinary. Despite that though, most of the players I had directly underneath him are players I'd rather have in my lineup.

Completely agree on Coffey.

Could not have stated it better.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

And we find out who likes King Clancy even more than me.

Chara at 27 is gutsy, but I have a feeling that in a year or two, it'll look better than where we actually ended up ranking him.

You seem to have gotten sold on Pospisil and Zubov between rounds 1 and 2 - I believe you were one of the three high votes for Zubov in Round 2, but the others had him high on their round 1 lists too. A little surprised to see Adam Foote - does he rank highly in your adjusted stats?

Chara is one of those rare players that has better numbers than his actual play.

 

[overpass]

When I made my initial list, I broke down my results by era and I noticed that players who starred in the 1970s, 1980s, and early 1990s were heavily represented compared to other eras.

I thought that might have been in part because a lower quality of play (caused by expansion) allowed d-men to stand out a bit more. So I moved some 70s/80s dmen down the list a bit and moved up some from less represented eras.

Clancy at 10, Chara at 27, and Adam Foote on the list are all probably because of that to some degree. That was the same reason I placed Langway and McCrimmon low - there were a lot of top defensive dmen from other eras, and I already had a lot of 80s guys.

After going through the project I think there may be legitimate reasons to have more 70s and 80s guys up high. Maybe Bobby Orr's example caused top talent to play defence more than in the past. Maybe expansion did lower the quality of play, but that meant that more top talent was moved to defence because they could have more impact there in a lower quality game. Maybe the influx of European and American players added more than their share of star defencemen. Maybe player development for defencemen was completely screwed up in the 1990s by the emphasis on systems and size.