HOH Top 60 Centers of All-Time: Round 1 Preliminary Discussion Thread

bigbuffalo313

Registered User
Apr 28, 2012
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New York
I guess if looking from a career stand point only I can see Malkin and Crosby not being higher.

But all of those mentioned were on my list and I can't see 40 centers that were actually better players than Crosby or Malkin.

Yeah I am looking at carrers mostly. If this was done after they retire than they would probably be in the lower 20s
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
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Yeah I am looking at carrers mostly. If this was done after they retire than they would probably be in the lower 20s

lower 20s? Crosby's on track (assuming career goes relatively smoothly from here) to easily pass guys like Sakic/Yzerman and has a shot at a Mikita-like career. Malkin, I can't see how he doesn't at least pass Max Bentley, as a bare minimum.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

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Aug 28, 2006
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lower 20s? Crosby's on track (assuming career goes relatively smoothly from here) to easily pass guys like Sakic/Yzerman and has a shot at a Mikita-like career. Malkin, I can't see how he doesn't at least pass Max Bentley, as a bare minimum.

Crosby needs to stay healthy to "easily" pass Sakic. But then, the more I look at it, the more I think Sakic is underrated because his absolute peak happened at the height of the dead puck era.

But that's an argument for Round 2...
 

vecens24

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Jun 1, 2009
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Crosby needs to stay healthy to "easily" pass Sakic. But then, the more I look at it, the more I think Sakic is underrated because his absolute peak happened at the height of the dead puck era.

But that's an argument for Round 2...

I actually really agree with this. Ended up ahead of Esposito for me.
 

MadArcand

Whaletarded
Dec 19, 2006
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lower 20s? Crosby's on track (assuming career goes relatively smoothly from here) to easily pass guys like Sakic/Yzerman and has a shot at a Mikita-like career. Malkin, I can't see how he doesn't at least pass Max Bentley, as a bare minimum.
He may be on track to pass Sakic if he stays healthy... but he's also on track to make Lindros seem a beacon of health, so I wouldn't bet on that.
 

Canadiens1958

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Nov 30, 2007
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Backstrom / Lemaire

Ralph Backstrom was a slightly better skater with an average shot.

Jacques Lemaire had one of the best slapshots of the late sixties/seventies, rare for a center, creating open ice on his own. Greater diversity, excellent LW, originally alternating between C and LW.
 

BraveCanadian

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
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why aren't you in this thing? We need more people like you.

Definitely he should be in! Can't beat having more people who saw more players play.

I didn't have time to compile a list, and still don't feel that good about ranking earlier era players to be honest, so I'll just be chiming in myself.
 

bigbuffalo313

Registered User
Apr 28, 2012
4,135
57
New York
lower 20s? Crosby's on track (assuming career goes relatively smoothly from here) to easily pass guys like Sakic/Yzerman and has a shot at a Mikita-like career. Malkin, I can't see how he doesn't at least pass Max Bentley, as a bare minimum.

They both have to deal with injuries, Crosby more than Malkin, which diminishes their value a bit. I would have Lindros higher if he was able to play full seasons and we could see everything he could do
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
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BraveCanadian said:
I... still don't feel that good about ranking earlier era players to be honest...
If I hadn't made google my friend over the last 9 years of ATDing, and hadn't cherrypicked 40+ history books from seventieslord's collection (some of them he hadn't read), I too would be a bit lost.

There is a lot online if you dig, and a lot of history of hockey books have chapters on early eras.

Check them out!

(p.s. I have been as big fan of Malkin's since his pre-NHL international tourney days, but he hasn't cracked my top-40 list (42nd I have him at, at the moment). He may reach a Forsberg or Perreault type career, but I think not yet.)
 

vecens24

Registered User
Jun 1, 2009
5,002
1
If I hadn't made google my friend over the last 9 years of ATDing, and hadn't cherrypicked 40+ history books from seventieslord's collection (some of them he hadn't read), I too would be a bit lost.

There is a lot online if you dig, and a lot of history of hockey books have chapters on early eras.

Check them out!

(p.s. I have been as big fan of Malkin's since his pre-NHL international tourney days, but he hasn't cracked my top-40 list (42nd I have him at, at the moment). He may reach a Forsberg or Perreault type career, but I think not yet.)

I'm probably a bigger Malkin proponent than anyone compiling this list, and I barely had him top 40, so I definitely think it's fair to have him outside of the top 40. He'll be a fun guy to argue later in the process.
 

Dennis Bonvie

Registered User
Dec 29, 2007
29,206
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Connecticut
I'm probably a bigger Malkin proponent than anyone compiling this list, and I barely had him top 40, so I definitely think it's fair to have him outside of the top 40. He'll be a fun guy to argue later in the process.

Malkin has already won 2 scoring championships.

Believe it or not, only 4 other centers have won multiple Art Ross Trophies.
 

Hawkey Town 18

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Jun 29, 2009
8,244
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Chicago, IL
Malkin has already won 2 scoring championships.

Believe it or not, only 4 other centers have won multiple Art Ross Trophies.

There are more that won 2 scoring titles before the art Ross was introduced. No reason to not include them. While it is a rare feat it is also a very binary way to look at things...in many years there isn't much separating 1st and 2nd.
 

ted2019

History of Hockey
Oct 3, 2008
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pittsgrove nj
I'm probably a bigger Malkin proponent than anyone compiling this list, and I barely had him top 40, so I definitely think it's fair to have him outside of the top 40. He'll be a fun guy to argue later in the process.

I had Malkin at #57. Hard for Me to place Guys with such little time ( 7 full seasons) that far up on the list. Had Crosby @ #47 due to the same issue.
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,130
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Do you really think the top 20 centers of all time were all Canadian? I would think not.

But,... I just realized that 19 of the top 20 on my list are Canadian :facepalm: ...

Is it coincidence or blinded bias? I hope the former.

35 of my top 40
and
48 of my top 60
are likewise.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

Registered User
Aug 28, 2006
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Do you really think the top 20 centers of all time were all Canadian? I would think not.

But,... I just realized that 19 of the top 20 on my list are Canadian :facepalm: ... coincidence or blinded by bias? I hope the former.

35 of my top 40
and
49 of my top 60
are likewise.

Canada tends to move most of their best forwards to the center position. Whereas in Europe, it seems like the most skilled forwards tend to be wingers.

Just look at the USSR - Makarov, Kharlamov, Mikhailov, Firsov - all wingers.
 

pappyline

Registered User
Jul 3, 2005
4,587
182
Mass/formerly Ont
Canada tends to move most of their best forwards to the center position. Whereas in Europe, it seems like the most skilled forwards tend to be wingers.

Just look at the USSR - Makarov, Kharlamov, Mikhailov, Firsov - all wingers.
I would disagree. Most of the best forwards start off as centers in Canada but some of the best move to the wing -Mahovlich, Lafleur, Bobby Hull are notable examples.
 

Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
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I think he meant that Canadians tend to "move" their best forwards to center while they're still little kids.

Semantics perhaps Sturminator. Generally speaking in Canada at Tyke or Atom when Coaches are evaluating kids upon induction at the entry level the best skater's, stickhandlers & shooters, those with innate abilities & the best of the crop will be started at Center. At that age & level its the most important position (excluding Goaltending) when building from scratch when putting together a squad of 6 or 8 year olds. You cant really teach "offensive instinct" and its pretty obvious which ones have it & which dont.
 

Dennis Bonvie

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Dec 29, 2007
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Connecticut
There are more that won 2 scoring titles before the art Ross was introduced. No reason to not include them. While it is a rare feat it is also a very binary way to look at things...in many years there isn't much separating 1st and 2nd.

Never thought of my view as binary, but now I'll have to re-evaluate.
 

Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
36,763
3,211
Never thought of my view as binary, but now I'll have to re-evaluate.

Indeed. But be careful Mr.Bonvie. You may encounter logical inconsistencies such as
Russells Paradox if you follow Cantors naive set theory which can lead to contradictions.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

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Aug 28, 2006
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Brooklyn
Looks like we'll have 23 voters this time, the exact same number as the defenseman project, down slightly from the goalies project:

bigbuffalo313; BillyShoe1721; Canadiens1958; DaveG; Dennis Bonvie; hardyvan123; Hawkey Town 18; intylerwetrust; Jigglysquishy; MadArcand; Mike Farkas; MXD; reckoning; Rob Scuderi; seventieslord; Sturminator; tarheelhockey; ted1971; the edler; TheDevilMadeMe; tony D; VanIslander; vecens24

Expect the first thread of Round 2 to be posted tonight or tomorrow!
 
Last edited:

ted2019

History of Hockey
Oct 3, 2008
5,492
1,882
pittsgrove nj
Looks like we'll have 23 voters this time, the exact same number as the defenseman project, down slightly from the goalies project:

bigbuffalo313; BillyShoe1721; Canadiens1958; DaveG; Dennis Bonvie; hardyvan123; Hawkey Town 18; intylerwetrust; Jigglysquishy; MadArcand; Mike Farkas; MXD; reckoning; Rob Scuderi; seventieslord; Sturminator; tarheelhockey; ted1971; the edler; TheDevilMadeMe; tony D; VanIslander; vecens24

Expect the first thread of Round 2 to be posted tonight or tomorrow!

Yeah!!!!!:hockey::hyper:
 

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