HOH Top 60 Centers List & Voting Record - VanIslander

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Round 1 List

Rank | name
1 | Wayne Gretzky
2 | Mario Lemieux
3 | Jean Beliveau
4 | Stan Mikita
5 | Mark Messier
6 | Howie Morenz
7 | Cyclone Taylor
8 | Bryan Trottier
9 | Phil Esposito
10 | Joe Sakic
11 | Bobby Clarke
12 | Steve Yzerman
13 | Newsy Lalonde
14 | Frank Nighbor*
15 | Marcel Dionne
16 | Milt Schmidt
17 | Frank Boucher
18 | Joe Malone
19 | Syl Apps, Sr
20 | Peter Forsberg
21 | Ted Kennedy
22 | Gilbert Perreault
23 | Sergei Fedorov
24 | Henri Richard
25 | Elmer Lach
26 | Sidney Crosby
27 | Peter Stastny
28 | Nels Stewart
29 | Dale Hawerchuk
30 | Alex Delvecchio
31 | Hooley Smith
32 | Russell Bowie
33 | Max Bentley
34 | Sid Abel
35 | Pavel Datsyuk
36 | Mickey MacKay
37 | Doug Gilmour*
38 | Ron Francis
39 | Dave Keon
40 | Igor Larionov
41 | Adam Oates
42 | Evgeni Malkin
43 | Eric Lindros
44 | Joe Thornton
45 | Norm Ullman
46 | Bill Cowley
47 | Tommy Dunderdale
48 | Bernie Federko
49 | Alexander Maltsev
50 | Jean Ratelle
51 | Vyacheslav Starshinov
52 | Mike Modano
53 | Joe Primeau
54 | Joe Nieuwendyk
55 | Jacques Lemaire
56 | Frank McGee
57 | Darryl Sittler
58 | Henrik Zetterberg
59 | Cooney Weiland
60 | Pat Lafontaine
61 | Mats Sundin
62 | Ivan Hlinka
63 | Dan Bain
64 | Frank Fredrickson
65 | Denis Savard
66 | Marty Barry
67 | Vladimir Petrov
68 | Dick Irvin
69 | Duke Keats
70 | Neil Colville
71 | Frank Foyston
72 | Jack Adams
73 | Bernie Morris
74 | Tommy Smith
75 | Billy Burch
76 | Jack Walker
77 | Sven Tumba
78 | Guy Carbonneau
79 | Marty Walsh
80 | Harry Trihey

Players from our final top 60 not ranked in this top 60
Mats Sundin at 61
Frank Fredrickson at 64
Denis Savard at 65
Vladimir Petrov at 67
Duke Keats at 69
Neil Colville at 70
Vaclav Nedomansky (not ranked)

Players unique to this list
Jack Walker
Harry Trihey (on 1 other list)

Players ranked highest overall on this list
Mark Messier at 5 - next highest at 6
Gilbert Perreault at 22 - next highest at 28
Bernie Federko at 48 - next highest at 55
Joe Nieuwendyk at 54 - tied with another
Ivan Hlinka at 61 - next highest at 70

Players ranked 2nd highest on this list
Cyclone Taylor at 7
Dale Hawerchuk at 29
Tommy Dunderdale at 47
Vyacheslav Starshinov at 51
Cooney Weiland at 59
Dan Bain at 63

Players ranked lowest overall on this list
Henrik Sedin (1 of 2 not to rank him)

Players ranked 2nd lowest on this list
Bobby Clarke at 11
Denis Savard at 65

Round 2 Voting Record

Round|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|none
1|Gretzky|Lemieux|Beliveau|Morenz|Messier|Mikita|Trottier|Esposito|Clarke
2|Mikita|Messier|Esposito|Trottier|Clarke|Taylor|Sakic|Lalonde|Nighbor, Yzerman
3|Esposito|Trottier|Taylor|Sakic|Lalonde|Yzerman|Dionne|Apps|Schmidt
4|Yzerman|Lalonde|Dionne|Malone|Apps|Forsberg|Boucher|Richard|Schmidt
5|Dionne|Schmidt|Malone|Forsberg|Kennedy|Richard|Fedorov|Bentley|Crosby
6|Malone|Stewart|Kennedy|Fedorov|Cowley|Bentley|Lach|Stastny|Abel, Crosby, Keon, Ullman
7|Stewart|Cowley|Bentley|Fedorov|Keon|Stastny|Abel|Lach|Delvecchio, Francis, Ullman
8|||||||||
9|||||||||
10|||||||||
11|||||||||
12|||||||||
13|||||||||
14|||||||||
15|||||||||
16|||||||

Highest vote
Vote 4: Joe Malone 4th

Lowest vote
Vote 5: Henri Richard 6th

Click to read more...

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I don't think VI is still around for this project, but if he is, I have two questions:

1) What's the rationale for ranking Hlinka so highly and not ranking Nedomansky or Novy at all?

2) What's the deal with the huge gap between Hawerchuk and Savard?

 

[MXD]

If anything, from round 1, the two things that drew my attention were the 33 ranks gap between MacKay and Keats, and Cooney Weiland in the Top-60 (and ahead of Marty Barry).

VI came up with corrections though in the 2nd round (notice placement of Clarke), and wasn'T there for the second half of round 2.

2) What's the deal with the huge gap between Hawerchuk and Savard?

If anything, Federko ahead of Savard (and quite a bit) kinda surprised me a bit as well.

Again -- that could have been addressed in the 2nd half the the 2nd round.

 

[VMBM]

Starshinov 16 places above Petrov? Whatever there

Plus I have a totally different view on Igor Larionov and his placing, of course, but no more about that.

And I'm probably one of the biggest Ivan Hlinka fans around here, but there's no way he should be ahead of Petrov either... or ahead of Nedomansky. Hlinka did have a very good domestic record (behind Novy and maybe Nedomansky, but above Martinec somewhat), and internationally, he had a long career and was arguably Team CSSR's best player in 1978-79 (that's how I remember it & stats support that). So in that sense I can understand, if someone has him above Novy.

EDIT: I made too big conclusions at first based on the initial list.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Round 1 List

Players ranked lowest overall on this list
Henrik Sedin (1 of 2 not to rank him)

Not a top 80 center yet good enough to be his 2nd line center in a 28 team draft...Hedberg must've had to do quite a bit of convincing.

 

[Canadiens1958]

ATD vs HOH

Not a top 80 center yet good enough to be his 2nd line center in a 28 team draft...Hedberg must've had to do quite a bit of convincing.

Two different concepts. ATD checks a number of boxes from the draft rules making him more valuable. Not the case in the HOH project.

 

[VanIslander]

What's the deal with the huge gap between Hawerchuk and Savard?

I saw them both play from the beginning to the end of their careers and thought the gap apt. Perhaps some stats might have convinced me to rely less on the eye test and memories of countless contests.

Starshinov 16 places above Petrov? Whatever there

Petrov suffers from a few bad games I've seen him play, even in the Internet era. He can be lackadaisical up the middle, not to mention some bad passes. I simply wasn't impressed often and the bad games stick in my memory. I'm very appreciative of Starshinov's style of play, maybe more so that most (apparently).

Not a top 80 center yet good enough to be his 2nd line center in a 28 team draft...Hedberg must've had to do quite a bit of convincing.

A little, indeed, but there were other considerations, like:

Two different concepts. ATD checks a number of boxes from the draft rules making him more valuable. Not the case in the HOH project.

Exactly. BOTH Daniel and Henrik were available, there was no trading up and a run on centers had happened, there were 56 picks between picks for us (we had double picks because we ended and started rounds) and we had drafted our first line, starting goalie and our second pairing dmen BEFORE turning to the second line pivot, and while we had several options, some I liked more than Henrik, his 7 years of passing plus chemistry with Daniel and ability to pick up a Tocchet later, pretty much made drafting the two Sedins together at that point a wise option in team building.

VI came up with corrections though in the 2nd round (notice placement of Clarke)

I was swayed by the detailed arguments for Clarke. There was some good stuff discussed there.

I liked participating in the dmen and goalie lists and wish y'all the best moving forward in the HOH project. G'day.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Pat Lafontaine 60th.

What could have been......

I like that Thornton and Ullman are farther down.

Nighbor behind Taylor & Lalonde; did you miss the memo?

A big Tommy Duderdale fan, eh?