Hockey's Future Top 50 Prospects Fall 2005: 1-10

[WADEugottaBELAKthat]

I've never really seen Ryan Suter play - - but he's got BIG shoes to fill to be included in this impressive group.

 

[GoBuckeyes9]

you have to consider that crosby is two years younger than ovechkin though. crosby's accomplishments for his age are pretty awesome.

great point! an even better point would be to say the Ovechkin plays hockey against men. and has been one of the best players in that league with NHL stars playing in it against him.

 

[Bruinaholic]

Solid top ten. I haven't posted on it yet but I just cannot believe that they ranked Shawn Belle ahead of Mark Stuart.

I skimmed through and didnt notice Stuart in the top 50.....did he crack it?

 

[#37]

Who would you have ranked Parise in front of?

Well, Zherdev does have 57 NHL games, and is no longer qualified to compete for the Calder... Should he really even be on that list? This is in no way a knock on Zherdev at all, I think the kid has a great future ahead of him.

 

[God Bless Canada]

A few points:

*Crosby is the right pick for No. 1. Alexander Ovechkin is an elite prospect and will one day be an elite NHL player. Crosby IMO, is the best player to be drafted since Joe Sakic in 1987 and will one day be the best all-round player in the NHL.
*Dion Phaneuf should be No. 3. He should definitely be ahead of Zheredev. Watch the job Phaneuf did on Ovechkin in the first period of the WJC gold medal game. Heck, watch any of his games from the past two WJCs. Phaneuf will one day be the top shut-down defenceman in the league and will put up 30-40 points to boot.
*Jeff Carter should be ahead of Thomas Vanek. Vanek's a one-dimensional goal scorer. Carter is an offensive power forward. If you don't believe me, watch Carter's play in the recent Calder Cup playoffs. I'd also have Carter ahead of Suter, and Suter ahead of Vanek.

I'm not going to agree with every player on the list. I'm glad to see Shawn Belle in the top 50 - I thought he should have been an all-star at the WJC - but I wouldn't have him ahead of Grebeshkov, Smid or Stuart for the top 50. Mike Richards is way too low, especially when you see he's behind Rob Schremp. Maybe it's just me, but I value grit, character and leadership very highly. Richards has won everywhere he's gone, and will one day captain a team to the Stanley Cup. He'll do it while posting 55-60 points per season. Schremp has the potential to lead a good NHL team in scoring, but he's just as likely to lead an AHL team in scoring. I think Semin's a little too high (actually a lot too high) and I certainly wouldn't have him ahead of Parise, Richards, Brule or Ryan.

 

[nomorekids]

I've never really seen Ryan Suter play - - but he's got BIG shoes to fill to be included in this impressive group.

I have. And don't worry.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

great point! an even better point would be to say the Ovechkin plays hockey against men. and has been one of the best players in that league with NHL stars playing in it against him.

so does zherdev and malkin. would you rank them ahead of crosby too?

 

[JDB3939]

Toivonen & Lundqvist(homer vote ) should be before him. Fluery didnt exactly put up steller numbers this season in the AHL.

Has Lundqvist even played in the AHL? He is what, 24? And Fleury is 20?

Toivonen from what I've heard is a good prospect, but Fleury is just lacking in the mental game. When he wason in WBS he was absolutely stellar. He just lacks consistency at this point to his game. As far pure skills I don't think there is a goalie in the league as quick as he is.

 

[JDB3939]

I'll disagree with that, Lehtonen's 4 games & Niittymaki's 3 games played in 03-04 were very bit as good if not better than Fleury's October.

Lehtonen's were extremely impressive. But take a look at the defense Niittymaki had in front of him compared to Fleury. MAF faced 40 shots a game his first month in the league and stood on his damn head. Fleury shouldn't have been playing in Pittsburgh. He started trying to do too much and that's when his game started to faulter a bit. Bringing him up then may have done some serious damage.

 

[FLYLine27*]

Has Lundqvist even played in the AHL? He is what, 24? And Fleury is 20?

Toivonen from what I've heard is a good prospect, but Fleury is just lacking in the mental game. When he wason in WBS he was absolutely stellar. He just lacks consistency at this point to his game. As far pure skills I don't think there is a goalie in the league as quick as he is.

Lundqvist is only 23(only 2 1/2 years older), He's ready to take the next step. Hes more NHL ready then Fleury is...Lundqvist played against NHL talent all last season in SEL and put up huge numbers. Just because Fleury was #1 overall and Lundqvist was picked in the 7th round shouldn't mean anything..but apparently it does with some people (not saying with you). I really dont wanna start the whole argument thing again like a few months ago...but Lundqvsit should be at the very least...near Fleury...not 23 spots ahead or whatever it is.

 

[sandels]

Well, Zherdev does have 57 NHL games, and is no longer qualified to compete for the Calder... Should he really even be on that list? This is in no way a knock on Zherdev at all, I think the kid has a great future ahead of him.

I was thinking about the same. What is Zherdev doing on that list?

Edit: Ok, just checked, under 65 games in the NHL...

 

[John Flyers Fan]

Lehtonen's were extremely impressive. But take a look at the defense Niittymaki had in front of him compared to Fleury. MAF faced 40 shots a game his first month in the league and stood on his damn head. Fleury shouldn't have been playing in Pittsburgh. He started trying to do too much and that's when his game started to faulter a bit. Bringing him up then may have done some serious damage.

Niittymaki is no longer eligible, but I'd take him any day of the week over Fleury. He's a proven winner, with Finnish league titles and now a Calder Cup championship and playoff MVP.

Also that Devils game was a battle for first place and he was tremendous, making 36 saves and outdeuling Brodeur.

 

[The Maltais Falcon]

I still think Malkin should go ahead of Lehtonen.

What has Malkin done to be ranked ahead of Lehtonen? I can't think of a single reason why he should be myself.

Ovechkin and Crosby, yes. Malkin and every other prospect out there, no. The HF staff nailed the top three (not that it was that tough a call.)

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I'm not happy with Fleury being that high. Should be somewhere in the teens. What has he done, AT ALL, to be ranked that high in this group? I would take him over Lundqvist right now and over Ward, also. But definately not over Toivenan. He definately falls into that category of "picked high so he must be a top 10 prospect" type deal. He's done nothing to solidify this ranking at all and it's one of the few in the entire list that absolutely makes no sense to me.

 

[Gags1288]

What has Malkin done to be ranked ahead of Lehtonen? I can't think of a single reason why he should be myself.

Ovechkin and Crosby, yes. Malkin and every other prospect out there, no. The HF staff nailed the top three (not that it was that tough a call.)

I agree, I think Lehtonen is right there with Crosby and Ovechkin. He's one of those special special goaltending prospects, better then any i've seen since at least Luongo (and I think he's better then Roberto as well). I would've ranked the top 10 like this:

1)Crosby
2)Ovechkin
3)Lehtonen
4)Zherdev
5)Malkin
6)Phaneuf
7)Carter
8)Suter
9)Vanek
10)Fleury- I really think he's living off of his draft position at this point. He was beat out for the starter job in the AHL by Andy Chiodo and was lit up in the AHL playoffs when he played. After his 1 month in Pittsburgh, he's been down right bad. How can you justify him being ahead of Lundquist, Toivonen, or even a guy like Ward after the way he has played the last two years?

 

[Jayhawk]

with some of these, you have to look at the ratings as being more hype than anything. Ratings are subjective one person's ratings are another person's toliet paper.

 

[Evilo]

I'm not happy with Fleury being that high. Should be somewhere in the teens. What has he done, AT ALL, to be ranked that high in this group? I would take him over Lundqvist right now and over Ward, also. But definately not over Toivenan. He definately falls into that category of "picked high so he must be a top 10 prospect" type deal. He's done nothing to solidify this ranking at all and it's one of the few in the entire list that absolutely makes no sense to me.

What has he done at all?
Being arguably the best goalie in the NHL for one whole month last year and seeting the franchise record for most wins in WB this year.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

What has he done at all?
Being arguably the best goalie in the NHL for one whole month last year and seeting the franchise record for most wins in WB this year.

Haha. Fleury posted a VERY mediocre .901 SP% in the AHL on a pretty solid team.

In relation to other top prospects, Lehtonen posted a .929 SP%, Toivonen a .932 SP%, Ward a .937 SP%, and Lundqvist with a .935 SP% in a league that could definately be considered a much stronger league than the AHL.

And those are all last years stats. And really, the only stat that really matters much to a developing goalie is if they are stopping shots. And the SP% stat definately shows that. Now, I'm not just playing off stats as I have seen each of the above goalies play this year (yes, you can check the NYR forum -- TONS TONS TONS of Lundqvist clips were posted after a bunch of games) and Fleury definately played at a level lower.

Look past your Pens bias, buddy.

 

[Gags1288]

What has he done at all?
Being arguably the best goalie in the NHL for one whole month last year and seeting the franchise record for most wins in WB this year.

That one month in the NHL was nearly 2 years ago now. What has he done since then? .901 Save percentage is a pathetic number in the AHL. Yea he's a young guy with a lot of talent, but if he was say a late 1st rounder or picked even later then that he would be no where to be found on this list. The guy got beat out for a job by Andy Chiodo and when he played in the playoffs he was lit up. There is simply no way to justify his ranking above guys like Jeff Carter, Tomas Vanek, and Ryan Suter other then his draft position and that one month that you are still hanging on to.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

That one month in the NHL was nearly 2 years ago now. What has he done since then? .901 Save percentage is a pathetic number in the AHL. Yea he's a young guy with a lot of talent, but if he was say a late 1st rounder or picked even later then that he would be no where to be found on this list. The guy got beat out for a job by Andy Chiodo and when he played in the playoffs he was lit up. There is simply no way to justify his ranking above guys like Jeff Carter, Tomas Vanek, and Ryan Suter other then his draft position and that one month that you are still hanging on to.

Dead on.

 

[The Pens Are Back*]

another way to look at it is potential (thats why they are prospects, they get drafted that high on their raw talent). obviously the great potential is still there, and many feel that he is young and talented enough to better his game into what they envisioned 2 years ago

here a question.....would the rangers trade luvquist staight up for fluery. same with the flyers and their goalie?
no brainer

 

[FLYLine27*]

another way to look at it is potential (thats why they are prospects, they get drafted that high on their raw talent). obviously the great potential is still there, and many feel that he is young and talented enough to better his game into what they envisioned 2 years ago

here a question.....would the rangers trade luvquist staight up for fluery. same with the flyers and their goalie?
no brainer

No brainer?

I dont think so. Ask some Philly and Ranger fans that. Im not so sure i'd trade Lundqvist for Fleury.

 

[The Pens Are Back*]

take a poll (like the list HF just did)


no brainer

 

[DBL]

another way to look at it is potential (thats why they are prospects, they get drafted that high on their raw talent). obviously the great potential is still there, and many feel that he is young and talented enough to better his game into what they envisioned 2 years ago

here a question.....would the rangers trade luvquist staight up for fluery. same with the flyers and their goalie?
no brainer

I wouldn't trade Toivonen for Fluery. Toivonen's been improving ever since being drafted and is a potential franchise goaltender. Fluery's potential franchise goaltender too, but his development as been shakey ever since being drafted. I give it one more year and Toivonen will be ahead of Fluery on most lists.

 

[Levitate]

how long can fleury be rated so high based on "talent" alone?

he can have all the talent in the world but he will fail miserably and never be a NHL goaltender if he can't add more to his game than just his raw talent. if he can't get his mental game together, and if he can't get his fundamentals down, he's going nowhere, even if he's the most skilled goalie ever. he's got plenty of time to put it together, obviously...wouldn't really even be worried if i was a pens fan...but i do have some issues with him continuing to be rated highly based on 1 month of NHL play, after which NHL shooters figured him out and picked him apart, and was like what, 2 years ago now? he's got great skills but he needs to freakin earn a top 10 spot with his play, and a .901 save% last year sure as hell indicates he should be rated a tad lower...