Hockey's Future Spring 2007 Organizational Rankings (16-30)

Big McLargehuge

Fragile Traveler
May 9, 2002
72,188
7,741
S. Pasadena, CA
Sure the penguins have drafted well, but most of their top players have fallen into their lap....

crosby duhhh, malkin duhhhh again. Jordan staal again..... Fleury....you get the theme all top 2 picks.

Whitney was top 5 or 6 I believe...

It's easy to look good when you are picking AT THE TOP, in drafts with loaded top end talent. Now they have picked up some good talent like Letang and guys like christensen and others but I'll judge the penguins drafting on how they do in the next 5 years, when they aren't getting GODLY players basically given to them.

Slam dunk picks or not, the Penguins have been drafting well throughout the decade so far. Of course the Crosbys and Malkins will get the press, but it's the Letangs (a second rounder who was ranked by Central Scouting in the mid 100s) and Talbots (eighth rounder) that speak volume about the Penguins scouting. Armstrong & Orpik, the last picks before the Penguins freefall to the bottom of the standings, are playing superb hockey as well, hardly the norm considering the Penguins drafting record throughout the 1990s and the players surrounded by them. The Penguins 24th rating is hardly a heartbreaker.

Mind you having players like Crosby, Malkin, Staal, etc. only help with the ratings so much, considering they graduate almost instantly.
 

Jaded-Fan

Registered User
Mar 18, 2004
52,446
14,304
Pittsburgh
Slam dunk picks or not, the Penguins have been drafting well throughout the decade so far. Of course the Crosbys and Malkins will get the press, but it's the Letangs (a second rounder who was ranked by Central Scouting in the mid 100s) and Talbots (eighth rounder) that speak volume about the Penguins scouting. Armstrong & Orpik, the last picks before the Penguins freefall to the bottom of the standings, are playing superb hockey as well, hardly the norm considering the Penguins drafting record throughout the 1990s and the players surrounded by them. The Penguins 24th rating is hardly a heartbreaker.

Mind you having players like Crosby, Malkin, Staal, etc. only help with the ratings so much, considering they graduate almost instantly.

Letang was a third round pick.
 

Mike Jones

Registered User
Apr 12, 2007
12,485
2,876
Calgary
The thing is...

BUT if you are going to say Calgary's Top 5 prospects are better than the Leafs' Top 5 prospects.. FINE but at least know who the Leafs' Top 5 Prospects are... where is Stralman? Why is Dahlberg there? If you can't even get the Leafs Top 5 Prospects down it brings doubt as to whether the actual rankings by team are correct. I think that is why Leaf fans are questioning the list. So Flames fans, calm the heck down :D

The discussion on ranking the top organizations has to go deeper than the top 5 prospects. A winning organization has to have depth and a system for integrating new players into their way of thinking and playing. A winning organization has to focus on acquiring players willing to pay their dues, even if it means spending time in the "E". Why? Because it's best for the team and not the particular career.

If I'm a team owner I want management types who focus as much energy on signing a minor league free agent as they would a first rounder. Why? Because those top 5 prospects (Whoever they are and regardless of talent level) are going to need a strong supporting cast and what better way to provide those players than through an effective, winning farm system.
 

Gallagbi

Formerly Eazy_B97
Jul 5, 2005
48,490
11,109
quick question, will stralman or kulemin make the leafs team next year?

i know boyd and taratukhin are almost locks
Stralman is pretty likely to make the team. Kulemin would be a lock if he comes over. The Leafs are trying to get him over, but he's likely staying in Russia 1 more year. Both are capable of stepping into the NHL this season.
The discussion on ranking the top organizations has to go deeper than the top 5 prospects. A winning organization has to have depth and a system for integrating new players into their way of thinking and playing. A winning organization has to focus on acquiring players willing to pay their dues, even if it means spending time in the "E". Why? Because it's best for the team and not the particular career.

If I'm a team owner I want management types who focus as much energy on signing a minor league free agent as they would a first rounder. Why? Because those top 5 prospects (Whoever they are and regardless of talent level) are going to need a strong supporting cast and what better way to provide those players than through an effective, winning farm system.
Why have you opted to tier the system? What makes it more important to pay their dues in the ECHL instead of the RSL?
 

Gutchecktime

Registered User
Dec 24, 2005
3,738
341
The discussion on ranking the top organizations has to go deeper than the top 5 prospects. A winning organization has to have depth and a system for integrating new players into their way of thinking and playing. A winning organization has to focus on acquiring players willing to pay their dues, even if it means spending time in the "E". Why? Because it's best for the team and not the particular career.

I understand everything you just said. Yes, it goes beyond the top 5 BUT IF YOU CAN'T EVEN NAME OUR TOP 5 PROSPECTS PROPERLY it doesn't really give the rest of your evaluation of our prospects much to stand on. There's no way Stralman isn't in our top 5 and the fact he isn't even mentioned here while a guy like Dahlberg is (???) is stupid.
 
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Mike Jones

Registered User
Apr 12, 2007
12,485
2,876
Calgary
There's no way Stralman isn't in our top 5 and the fact he isn't even mentioned here while a guy like Dahlberg is (???) is stupid.

I wouldn't obsess about a relatively minor oversight (If it is an oversight). What difference would the correction make? I don't think it would make a big one. Stralman is high risk. He's also high reward if things work out for he and the Leafs. This doesn't effect the current rankings, however. I would hunch that a successful Stralman would go a long way towards improving next year's off season rankings.
 

Mike Jones

Registered User
Apr 12, 2007
12,485
2,876
Calgary
Why have you opted to tier the system? What makes it more important to pay their dues in the ECHL instead of the RSL?

Tiered systems work. If someone succeeds at one level they get promoted. If they struggle they get sent to a level where they can learn and rebuild their confidence. It also works from a North American perspective. I still don't think it's fair to bring a prospect over from Europe and expect them to make an NHL team. They need time to adjust and that's where an effective farm system comes in - Yes, even if it means time in the ECHL.

A player can certainly thrive in the RSL but context is everything.
 

Gallagbi

Formerly Eazy_B97
Jul 5, 2005
48,490
11,109
I wouldn't obsess about a relatively minor oversight (If it is an oversight). What difference would the correction make? I don't think it would make a big one. Stralman is high risk. He's also high reward if things work out for he and the Leafs. This doesn't effect the current rankings, however. I would hunch that a successful Stralman would go a long way towards improving next year's off season rankings.
The late pick is high risk? As a prospect, he's gotten some very warm remarks, which would make alot of difference.
 

Gutchecktime

Registered User
Dec 24, 2005
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341
I wouldn't obsess about a relatively minor oversight (If it is an oversight). What difference would the correction make? I don't think it would make a big one. Stralman is high risk. He's also high reward if things work out for he and the Leafs. This doesn't effect the current rankings, however. I would hunch that a successful Stralman would go a long way towards improving next year's off season rankings.

I'd love to know what else he has to do to be considered a good prospect. You are saying "be successful at an NHL level" is what he has to do but at that point, he'll go to the GRADUATED list. Don't you see a problem with that reasoning?

If you are agreeing with what is SAID in the rankings, you are agreeing that the best we can hope for is for Stralman to be a 5th or 6th defenseman. That's what they've said.
 

MrMastodonFarm*

Registered User
Jul 5, 2004
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0
When we look back at this article (and HF should do updates on past lists for fun) the Dallas Stars will probably end up getting more NHL players then 25/30 NHL teams listed.
 

Mike Jones

Registered User
Apr 12, 2007
12,485
2,876
Calgary
The late pick is high risk? As a prospect, he's gotten some very warm remarks, which would make alot of difference.

I'm not the one who exposed a 7th round draft choice to a media scrum. That doesn't strike me as being the brightest move. The more hype this guy receives the higher the stakes.
 

Mike Jones

Registered User
Apr 12, 2007
12,485
2,876
Calgary
I'd love to know what else he has to do to be considered a good prospect. You are saying "be successful at an NHL level" is what he has to do but at that point, he'll go to the GRADUATED list. Don't you see a problem with that reasoning?

If you are agreeing with what is SAID in the rankings, you are agreeing that the best we can hope for is for Stralman to be a 5th or 6th defenseman. That's what they've said.

He scored 2 points (?) at the World Championship? How many other players have scored two points and not made the NHL? He's accomplished some interesting things. I simply don't think any of this makes him a lock. I don't think it even gives him a free pass in the minors.

I'd be interested to see how he does at a rookie camp where he competes with other prospects. I'd like to see how he does at the main camp later this year. I'd like to know if he reports when he is assigned to the A.
 

Gallagbi

Formerly Eazy_B97
Jul 5, 2005
48,490
11,109
I'm not the one who exposed a 7th round draft choice to a media scrum. That doesn't strike me as being the brightest move. The more hype this guy receives the higher the stakes.
If he wasn't important, nobody would've shown up. He doesn't pan out, there are others behind him. There is very little risk at all with him since he was such a late pick. So what there was a press conference recently, there usually is for players who have shown what he has.
 

philosophical___

Registered User
Jan 28, 2007
143
0
lol, i'm a habs fan and i laugh at this list.

anton stralman is arguably the best swedish prospect in the world behind backstrom, and nikolai kulemin is the best russian prospect not in the nhl. then you have jiri tlusty, who's a very good prospect, and justin pogge who struggled in the ahl but he's still a blue chip prospect.

so basically 4 blue chip prospects, and the leafs are ranked behind calgary and atlanta?

some of you fans outside of toronto need to open up your eyes and pay attention to a forward who scores 37 goals in a season and is a huge reason why his club wins the championship.

kulemin (regular season+playoffs): 69 games, 37 goals, 13 assists, 50 points, +25
 

Gutchecktime

Registered User
Dec 24, 2005
3,738
341
lol, i'm a habs fan and i laugh at this list.

anton stralman is arguably the best swedish prospect in the world behind backstrom, and nikolai kulemin is the best russian prospect not in the nhl. then you have jiri tlusty, who's a very good prospect, and justin pogge who struggled in the ahl but he's still a blue chip prospect.

so basically 4 blue chip prospects, and the leafs are ranked behind calgary and atlanta?

some of you fans outside of toronto need to open up your eyes and pay attention to a forward who scores 37 goals in a season and is a huge reason why his club wins the championship.

kulemin (regular season+playoffs): 69 games, 37 goals, 13 assists, 50 points, +25

Thanks for the input. I don't even care about the RANKING. But come on, the best we can hope for is Stralman to be a 5th or 6th guy? Crazy talk. Fine, "no depth" yadda yadda. But you don't have to take away from what our top guys are doing.
 

philosophical___

Registered User
Jan 28, 2007
143
0
Thanks for the input. I don't even care about the RANKING. But come on, the best we can hope for is Stralman to be a 5th or 6th guy? Crazy talk. Fine, "no depth" yadda yadda. But you don't have to take away from what our top guys are doing.

it says a lot about the quality of the HF.com content, where they skip out on one of the top blue line prospects not in the nhl, and they manage to post drivel such as this.

god forbid they try and charge money for this crap.
 

Chaos

And the winner is...
Sep 2, 2003
7,968
18
TX
When we look back at this article (and HF should do updates on past lists for fun) the Dallas Stars will probably end up getting more NHL players then 25/30 NHL teams listed.

But we have no writer, have maybe 10 fans on here, and generally get our young players outside of the first round....all the criteria seemingly used to make rankings(having a writer, popularity, and draft positioning). That and not having the undeserved reputation of a team like Detroit, where seemingly every mid/late round Swede or Russian is the next Datsyuk/Zetterberg. We're used to being ranked low by now.
 

PunjabiOil*

Guest
Are you saying Stastny isn't an NHL player?

No. I'm saying why should Colorado be penalized in these rankings because a guy like Stastny graduates early because he's a good player and making an impact in the NHL.

Similar to Crosby, Malkin, Staal in Pittsburgh.

The guys that are in the NHL at a young age are usually the ones who have more impact. It's the less impact prospects that are in the system (i.e. AHL, NCAA) for a longer period of time.

An objective criteria would be ranking all players from the ages of 18-22 in the organization, be it in the NHL/AHL/NCAA/ECHL/CHL
 

Vman

Registered User
Mar 10, 2003
2,411
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hfboards.com
How are the Canucks not high?

Bourdon is well documented but Edler is a stud and possibly better than Bourdon.

Schneider is one of the best goalie prospects in the league.

We also have Koltsov and Rahimi for good measure behind as our #3 and #4 defensive prospects.

The offensive pool isn't great but its getting better.. Grabner, Raymond (do not know why he was not mentioned in the article......), Simek and Hansen all have potential.
Vancouver deserves to be at 21, well they were better than last year when they were 26. Look at our forward prospects... It is something the Canucks really need to work on. Besides, Hansen, nobody is really ready for the NHL and Hansen, Grabner, and Raymond are the best 3 forwards
 

Kevin Forbes

Registered User
Jul 29, 2002
9,199
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Nova Scotia
www.kforbesy.ca
No. I'm saying why should Colorado be penalized in these rankings because a guy like Stastny graduates early because he's a good player and making an impact in the NHL.

Similar to Crosby, Malkin, Staal in Pittsburgh.

The guys that are in the NHL at a young age are usually the ones who have more impact. It's the less impact prospects that are in the system (i.e. AHL, NCAA) for a longer period of time.

An objective criteria would be ranking all players from the ages of 18-22 in the organization, be it in the NHL/AHL/NCAA/ECHL/CHL

I think that gets away from what Hockey's Future is trying to cover. We're not trying to look at young talent, no matter where it is, we're trying to look at future NHL talent. Always with our eyes on the next wave.
Crosby, Staal, Stastny are all NHL players, it is a testament to their respective clubs that they were able to make the leap to contribute regularly so quickly and effectively. But that doesn't mean Pittsburgh or Colorado stops drafting or developing. That's what our focus is on, the next Penguin, the next member of the Avalanche.
Does Pittsburgh have an impressive bevy of young talent? Sure do, but anyone who's watched hockey in the past 12 months already knows that. The question that Hockey's Future is trying to answer with things like these rankings is who will be the next Pittsburgh, who's set to suddenly start filling their ranks with a number of talented young players and hopefully translate that into on the ice success.
I understand where you're coming from, because the current prospect criteria does appear to penalize teams for having immediately successful players. But look back at previous organizational rankings, the top spot has been occupied by teams like Pittsburgh in two of the last three rankings. Anaheim was the only one to knock them off that spot, simply because Getzlaf and Perry weren't considered full time NHLers by our criteria (I argued against it, but the staff decided to not open the door for subjective eligibility as then even more issues would result. A line had to be drawn and enforced somewhere). These teams are (for the most part, like anyone, we've made our missteps and taken our lumps) being predicted ahead of time that this talent is coming. That's what the Org Rankings are doing.
 

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