Hockey Renaissance?

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skellart

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Jan 24, 2005
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I know, I know. Every Canadian out there and many Americans as well want Nashville gone, but if you really want to see a hockey renaissance, get the attention of RED NECKS. Promote the south eastern teams and get the fat guys with letters painted on their bellies at the games. You know the ones, loud, obnoxious dudes with a southern draw so bad that you can't understand them. Think about it. Where would football, baseball, nascar and wrestling be without the red necks. :toothless :loony:
 

ResidentAlien*

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Spungo said:
What a waste of time reading this responce was. I want the 2 seconds of my life back that you just stole.
I never stole it, you gave it away.
There, there's another 4 seconds
 

Crazy_Ike

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Mar 29, 2005
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Those Nike goalie commercials were some of the best commercials in history, man...
 

Bring Back Bucky

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May 19, 2004
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Kritter471 said:
Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the 60s, 70s and 80s the zenith of the dynasties? If single teams are winning four to eight Stanley Cups a decade, that, to me, signals a competitive imbalance much more than competitive balance...

Actually, those dynasties of which you speak were the hallmark of excellent management and take us back to an era where player costs didn't dictate success. The Habs, Isles & the Oil got there the honest way. The PLAYING FIELD was level, it was up to the management of a team to sink it or float it..
 

HockeyCritter

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nyr7andcounting said:
But are more people going to watch Oilers games now because they are more financially competative? I doubt it.

Some of the cheapest teams over the years have had the best attendances.

Fix the rules, get out the clutch and grab, get more speed and flow to the game and more fans will watch no matter what the CBA is.
Perhaps not --- but now the Oiler fans won’t feel like they’re a feeder team for the rest of the league and that is good for the health of the sport.
 

Riddarn

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Aug 2, 2003
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Epsilon said:
An NBA lockout could go a long way towards an "NHL renaissance".

But is it likely that the NBA and their PA will be stupid enough to follow the bad example that the NHL/NHLPA set during this conflict?
 

nyr7andcounting

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Feb 24, 2004
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HockeyCritter said:
Perhaps not --- but now the Oiler fans won’t feel like they’re a feeder team for the rest of the league and that is good for the health of the sport.
No because that doesn't bring in anymore fans, that simply makes current Oilers fans feel better about their organization.

People in Nashville aren't going to turn on hockey because the Predators win boring games and make the playoffs every other year. But they will if the game itself is more exciting.

I also think people seem to over rate the affect of the CBA on this. I mean this lockout is about money and ONLY money. The NHL saying they are doing this to grow the sport and get more fans is BS...you do that by improving the game on the ice. And what are we really aiming for here anyway? There are 30 teams and 16 playoff spots, so if financial competativeness really works and every team has the 50-50 chance of making the playoffs that they should, than that means each team still is only going to make it every other year. Is that really what is going to grow the league and the sport? Did that grow the Carolina market when they made the playoffs for a year or two? How about Florida?
 

mr gib

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Spungo said:
I'll say it right now. Mark my words. There *will* be a hockey renaissance. The NHL will be bigger 5 years from now than it ever has been.

If the CBA deal that's been reported is signed, sealed and delivered on July 1, I am beyond excited about the new NHL. This first post-lockout NHL season especially should be one of the more exciting pro sports seasons in history.

Throw in the new rules, the acceptance of hockeys stodgy higher-up's that there was a problem with the game itself and a willingness to *finally* fix it, the fact that for the first time since the 1980's every team will, more or less, be on a level playing ground, the hundreds and hundreds or free agents making this summer a "fantasy off-season" for us hockey nuts, the unprecedented commitment to winning fans back, and my expectations are through the roof for this league.

Let's also mention they new crop of young guns that haven't been this exciting since the early 90's with Roenick, Jagr, Belfour, etc. We have Nash, Kovalchuck, Heatly, Ovechkin, Richards, Crosby, Spezza, Luongo, etc. I firmly believe this lockout is the best thing to happen to the NHL since Wayne Gretzky first stepped on Edmonton ice in 1979.

Agree or disagree?
i agree - you can feel the excitment starting to build - even the media can't wait for the nhl to return -
 

Spankatola Jamnuts*

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HockeyCritter said:
It depends on the rule changes and whether or not the League will stick with them.
They won't. Too many dinosaurs in suits, and in stripes.
 

djhn579

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nyr7andcounting said:
No because that doesn't bring in anymore fans, that simply makes current Oilers fans feel better about their organization.

People in Nashville aren't going to turn on hockey because the Predators win boring games and make the playoffs every other year. But they will if the game itself is more exciting.

I also think people seem to over rate the affect of the CBA on this. I mean this lockout is about money and ONLY money. The NHL saying they are doing this to grow the sport and get more fans is BS...you do that by improving the game on the ice. And what are we really aiming for here anyway? There are 30 teams and 16 playoff spots, so if financial competativeness really works and every team has the 50-50 chance of making the playoffs that they should, than that means each team still is only going to make it every other year. Is that really what is going to grow the league and the sport? Did that grow the Carolina market when they made the playoffs for a year or two? How about Florida?

Improving the game on the ice will go a long way to improving the game, but I think you are under estimating ow a new CBA will effect teams in smaller markets.

If your a fan of a small market team that has seen your team draft decent players year after year, only to see them leave and go on to greatness in a big market, your always wondering how good your team could have been if you could have kept the players your team drafted. With the new CBA (based on the rumors, any way...), small market teams will be able to keep those players longer, which will result in any team with good drafting, player development, and management able to have a good team. That will create more excitement in all 30 cities, not just 7. That will go a long way to growing the sport as well.
 

nyr7andcounting

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Feb 24, 2004
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djhn579 said:
Improving the game on the ice will go a long way to improving the game, but I think you are under estimating ow a new CBA will effect teams in smaller markets.

If your a fan of a small market team that has seen your team draft decent players year after year, only to see them leave and go on to greatness in a big market, your always wondering how good your team could have been if you could have kept the players your team drafted. With the new CBA (based on the rumors, any way...), small market teams will be able to keep those players longer, which will result in any team with good drafting, player development, and management able to have a good team. That will create more excitement in all 30 cities, not just 7. That will go a long way to growing the sport as well.
But that was one of my points. Some of the "small" markets already have about as much support as they are going to get, especially the Canadian markets. I can't see the Oilers becoming a whole lot more popular because now they can keep a guy like Doug Weight for an extra couple of years.

This CBA will change the mindset of small market fans who already watch their team, but I don't think the CBA is going to attract new fans in those markets.
 

King_Brown

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I agree a partnership with the players, and a new lease on life for the NHL will be a good thing. After this low, the only place to go is up. Rule changes, new ideas on how to promote the game, new stars coming in, a even playing field, the feeling among everyone that they will have to do new things to attract new people to game, it will go a long way for the NHL. If they cannot get going after this, then the NHL should just fold.
 

Vlad The Impaler

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Feb 27, 2002
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Riddarn said:
But is it likely that the NBA and their PA will be stupid enough to follow the bad example that the NHL/NHLPA set during this conflict?

What are you talking about? The NHL played its cards right so far.
 

Hatter

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Jul 9, 2004
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You know why there will _not be a hockey renissance ? Because it will be a flippin 5 year deal (the CBA) and we will be going through all of this agin.
 

se7en*

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nyr7andcounting said:
I can't see the Oilers becoming a whole lot more popular because now they can keep a guy like Doug Weight for an extra couple of years.

Why on earth would we need the Oil to become a "whole lot more popular"? Edmonton lives and breathes Oilers.

And the hockey renaissance, imo, was in the late-70s/early-90s. Then the decline started.
 

nyr7andcounting

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Hootchie Cootchie said:
Why on earth would we need the Oil to become a "whole lot more popular"? Edmonton lives and breathes Oilers.

And the hockey renaissance, imo, was in the late-70s/early-90s. Then the decline started.
That's my point. He's saying the NHL is going to expand becomes the small market teams now have more hope and success with this CBA. My point is that half those teams already have all the fans and revenues they are going to get, like Edmonton for example.

The NHL needs to grow in it's biggest markets as well as the small ones, and a new CBA isn't going to do that. If you think the NHL as a whole is going to blow up simply because with a new CBA, Nashville, Carolina and Florida have more hope each year....it doesn't make any sense.
 

Spungo*

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nyr7andcounting said:
That's my point. He's saying the NHL is going to expand becomes the small market teams now have more hope and success with this CBA. My point is that half those teams already have all the fans and revenues they are going to get, like Edmonton for example.

The NHL needs to grow in it's biggest markets as well as the small ones, and a new CBA isn't going to do that. If you think the NHL as a whole is going to blow up simply because with a new CBA, Nashville, Carolina and Florida have more hope each year....it doesn't make any sense.

First of all, the CBA doesn't just affect 3 teams, it affects every single team in the league. And I don't care how many fans Edmonton has now, all those fans won't mean squat if the team leaves just like Winnipeg and Quebec.

As to your 3 examples, the answer is YES, carolina *will* have MANY more fans if they are allowed to play on an even playing filed with the Leafs, Rangers and Red Wings, and YES, Florida and Nashville *will* have many more fans if they can compete on this same level playing field.

Do you think Pittsburgh magically lost all its hockey fans? No, the Penguins play in front of a half empty arena because the fans are sick of being a feeder team for the rest of the league.

Same for the Blue Jays in Toronto. We used to sell out the SkyDome every single night, but crowds never came back after we became a minor league feeder team for the Yankees, Red Sox, etc. People don't support feeder teams.

Another example of how the CBA helps the league is in Columbus, which has sell outs almost every night, yet they *lost* money under the old CBA and had no hope of ever competing. How long are Columbus fans going to stick around seeing all their players raided by big market teams?

The NHL was a sick and dying league with WAY too many big market, medium market, and small market teams losing money. If you don't think that has a negative effect on a league, you are living in a dream land. I hope this makes sense to you now.
 

nyr7andcounting

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Feb 24, 2004
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Spungo said:
First of all, the CBA doesn't just affect 3 teams, it affects every single team in the league. And I don't care how many fans Edmonton has now, all those fans won't mean squat if the team leaves just like Winnipeg and Quebec.
But Edmonton isn't going to gain any NEW fans because it's all of the sudden financially competative with the Rangers. The same goes for Calgary, Vancouver, Montreal, Ottawa. Those teams are pretty much as big as they are going to get in those markets and those teams have been competative anyway. They are already getting the most revenue they can out of their markets...the only way they are going to get more is a national TV deal and that depends on the game on the ice not off of it.

Spungo said:
As to your 3 examples, the answer is YES, carolina *will* have MANY more fans if they are allowed to play on an even playing filed with the Leafs, Rangers and Red Wings, and YES, Florida and Nashville *will* have many more fans if they can compete on this same level playing field.
How can you say that? Carolina went to the finals a few years ago, is their market any stronger now? You seem to miss the point that if all goes well and every team is competative for players that means they'll make the playoffs roughly every other year. 30 teams, 16 spots. There are exceptions of course, but if you look at Carolina's last 4 years that's about what they are going to look for under the new CBA. Playoffs, finals, miss, miss. 2 out of 4 years in the playoffs. Did that grow the Carolina market?

Spungo said:
Another example of how the CBA helps the league is in Columbus, which has sell outs almost every night, yet they *lost* money under the old CBA and had no hope of ever competing. How long are Columbus fans going to stick around seeing all their players raided by big market teams?
As you said, they are selling out, so the fans seem to be sticking around fine so far. They might be a little more competative, but how much more money are they going to make if they are already selling out?

Spungo said:
The NHL was a sick and dying league with WAY too many big market, medium market, and small market teams losing money. If you don't think that has a negative effect on a league, you are living in a dream land. I hope this makes sense to you now.
That has a negative affect on the owners pockets, not on the league. The most important thing for the league is to have an exciting game on the ice, and as I said getting a new CBA is ONLY about money. There won't be any renaissance of any kind until the NHL improves the game on the ice.
 

HockeyCritter

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Dec 10, 2004
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Smotheredhope said:
You know why there will _not be a hockey renissance ? Because it will be a flippin 5 year deal (the CBA) and we will be going through all of this agin.
Unlikely. This negotiation session involved creating a brand new CBA from top to bottom. Future negotiations will discuss cap numbers, percentages, and a few other details. They won’t have to reinvent the well the next go round.
 

Timmy

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Feb 2, 2005
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HockeyCritter said:
Unlikely. This negotiation session involved creating a brand new CBA from top to bottom. Future negotiations will discuss cap numbers, percentages, and a few other details. They won’t have to reinvent the well the next go round.

As well, Bob or his replacement will be more eager this time to start negotiating before the CBA expires, since the principles will already be in place, and it will just be, as noted, a numbers thing.
 

HockeyCritter

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And if the CBA does what the NHL thinks it will, the league will be stronger and then I can see the PA asking for a bigger percentage (which I think they should get) a higher cap, higher entry level contracts, and perhaps a lower UFA and so on and so forth.
 

Timmy

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HockeyCritter said:
And if the CBA does what the NHL thinks it will, the league will be stronger and then I can see the PA asking for a bigger percentage (which I think they should get) a higher cap, higher entry level contracts, and perhaps a lower UFA and so on and so forth.

Yep.
 

HockeyCritter

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That would be the logical course of action; however, as these talks have proved, both sides are lacking in the logic department.
 
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