HOCKEY REF"S PLEAD TO NHLPA...ESPN

[Wetcoaster]

Sorry if this has already been posted.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?id=1989453

Its a good read on how the pressure on Goodnow is increasing.

What pressure does this put on the NHLPA that they did not already have?

Goodenow will respond to his constituents - the players. That is his responsibility and that is what he has been hired to do.

It is a nice puff piece but that is about it.

 

[Bicycle Repairman]

You mean the way the NHLPA showed solidarity with the officials in 1993 and crossed their picket lines?

They did so under duress because of the court injunction and subsequently filed a protest.

 

[BCCHL inactive]

Well, they should be. Isn't that supposed to be Walkom's job?

Do you really think the NHL is going to get into negotiations with the NHLOA without a CBA with the NHLPA?

All Walkom is doing, is saying something that he thinks will help the process for the NHL-NHLPA CBA, so that the NHL and NHLOA can sit down and discuss their CBA.

Why should the NHLOA be concerned about the state of the league? That's ridiculous!

It's pretty simple really. Without NHL hockey, NHLOA members (aside from those on two-way NHL/AHL contracts) do not have jobs, thus their CBA with the NHL is useless.

Why shouldn't the NHL play hardball with the officials?

Unless the NHLOA demands that their salaries increase by at least double, the NHL has no reason to play hardball with them.


There is no reason for the NHLOA to show any solidarity with the NHLPA. Walkom knows that the NHL cannot survive under what the NHLPA wants. Why would he stand behind their philosophies that will just have NHLOA members out of jobs sooner or later?

If I was an NHLOA member, I would support the league as well. Players make at least tenfold what the officials do. I'm not saying officials should make millions, or as much as players. After all, the game is about the players. However, the average referee making $150k while the average player makes seven figures isn't right. If the players start making less money, then the NHLOA has a lot less cause to demand higher salaries for their members.

 

[SuperUnknown]

Walkom should be exploiting the current labor situation instead to extract some modest gains for his membership. By counselling the NHLPA to accept whatever the NHL offers them, he's setting up his own organization to concede their own hard-earned gains.

Again, why should the NHL play nice with the NHLOA come June?

They are not in a position to make any gains. If you think the NHL will give them any gain before settling with the NHLPA you're out of your mind (cause they don't need the refs). If you think once they settle with the NHLPA they're going to give any gain to the refs, once again you're kidding yourself. They'll tell the refs: we're in a bad situation, revenues have shrunk, future is uncertain. What ground can the refs stand on to make gains? If the schedule is reduced, if there are less teams, there will be jobs cut (or if they have to go back to a one referee system).

I foresee no gain at all for the referees. Only losses, and bigger losses as the lockout keeps going.

On the other hand, Walcom's reasonable approach might land him a deal that preserves all the refs can while not hurting the industry. This is "getting the best deal". NHLPA should listen and learn while they're setting themselves for a bad deal for their membership any way this settles.

 

[Bicycle Repairman]

Do you really think the NHL is going to get into negotiations with the NHLOA without a CBA with the NHLPA?

They're required to have some sort of meaningful discussions come expiry of a contract. Unless they want a big, fat Negotiating In Bad Faith charge.

All Walkom is doing, is saying something that he thinks will help the process for the NHL-NHLPA CBA, so that the NHL and NHLOA can sit down and discuss their CBA.

By advocating unconditional surrender for the NHLPA, surely what's good for the goose is good for the gander? No? Sounds like Walkom is already conceding on behalf of his own association.

It's pretty simple really. Without NHL hockey, NHLOA members (aside from those on two-way NHL/AHL contracts) do not have jobs, thus their CBA with the NHL is useless.

There are many examples of concurrent labour negotiations in other industries. Why should the current NHLPA lockout preclude NHLOA negotiations?

Unless the NHLOA demands that their salaries increase by at least double, the NHL has no reason to play hardball with them.

The NHL has twice shown they're quite willing to toss the whole lot to the curb. The NHLOA now has the best leverage they've ever had in their whole existence.

There is no reason for the NHLOA to show any solidarity with the NHLPA. Walkom knows that the NHL cannot survive under what the NHLPA wants.

Walkom is of course entitled to his own opinion. However, as president of the NHLOA he should be adopting a more cautious public personna.

If I was an NHLOA member, I would support the league as well. Players make at least tenfold what the officials do. I'm not saying officials should make millions, or as much as players. After all, the game is about the players. However, the average referee making $150k while the average player makes seven figures isn't right. If the players start making less money, then the NHLOA has a lot less cause to demand higher salaries for their members.

I'm sure the NHL officials are happy with their rate of pay. I don't believe that's an outstanding issue with them. However, playing into the NHL agenda could backfire on them.

 

[Muleskinner]

What pressure does this put on the NHLPA that they did not already have?

Goodenow will respond to his constituents - the players. That is his responsibility and that is what he has been hired to do.

It is a nice puff piece but that is about it.

I get the feeling Goodenow's constituents will be responding more to him in the comming day's-week's, ect.

I have already felt the unions foundation shiffting for a couple weeks now. Now I can feel the first fissures forming. Soon it will all come crumbling down.

Players>>> .:....:::...:::::.........BOOM!!!!

 

[Wetcoaster]

I get the feeling Goodenow's constituents will be responding more to him in the comming day's-week's, ect.

I have already felt the unions foundation shiffting for a couple weeks now. Now I can feel the first fissures forming. Soon it will all come crumbling down.

Players>>> .:....:::...:::::.........BOOM!!!!

That is getting old.

Even Stan Fischler noted this week (after retracting a story about players crossing a picket line) that he sees no weakening in the players' resolve. This from a guy who has recycled and re-dated quotes from Pierre Dagenais to make it look like Dagneais was still speaking out and predicted weekly since the lockout that union was about to crack.

When 50% plus 1 vote the bargaining team out then there is something to talk about. Currently over half the membership is playing in Europe.

 

[Muleskinner]

Just by reading Bicycle Repairman's comments....and of course looking at his avatar, Im left wondering if he is just someone looking to stir up disscusion, or maybe an ex-player (Or current) that is/still strong union?

hmmm....

 

[Bicycle Repairman]

Just by reading Bicycle Repairman's comments....and of course looking at his avatar, Im left wondering if he is just someone looking to stir up disscusion, or maybe an ex-player (Or current) that is/still strong union?

hmmm....

No, just someone who believes in the right of collective bargaining as a cornerstone of the democratic process. I'm not a union person. Nor am I fraternally linked to any popular newspaper columnist.

 

[Muleskinner]

>>>>>>>Currently over half the membership is playing in Europe.<<<<<<<<<

And this says what exactly?....other than the players are trying to keep their skills sharp and that they still want to make some $$$.

When I read quotes by players that say they would play under a cap, I start getting the feeling that its a matter of time if this keeps going on that they will wise up and realize there will be no better deal later on. Many are starting to see this but so far only a few are speaking out like J.R. did last week.

 

[Enoch]

>>>>>>>Currently over half the membership is playing in Europe.<<<<<<<<<

And this says what exactly?....other than the players are trying to keep their skills sharp and that they still want to make some $$$.

It shows that they aren't really fighting over philosphies and sticking together as a "union", but money.....Try to keep the cap out, but take everyone else's jobs in other leagues that actually have the philosphies that you despise, in them.

Hypocrites.

I can say the same for owners. 2 words -

Revenue Sharing.

Hypocrites.

 

[Muleskinner]

No, just someone who believes in the right of collective bargaining as a cornerstone of the democratic process. I'm not a union person. Nor am I fraternally linked to any popular newspaper columnist.

I never said anything about a linkage with a newspaper columnist......Now your sounding like eklund

Look, Im all for unions when they serve a good purpose for those that they represent....The democratic process and all that jazz. Who isnt? That in this case isnt what is going on here in the opinion of many fans here on the outside looking in, and its not just the common fans that hold this opinion as the article about the ref's show. A good union knows when to look after the better good of those it represents, and in this case it needs to look to something else....First: THE GAME. 2nd: THE FANS as well. Sometimes union members need to step in and stear a union a little.

 

[rwilson99]

The NHLOA is hardly in a position of bargaining strength given the circumstances. Walkom is doing his membership a disservice by speaking out at this time.

You sound like a flight attendent working for the now defunct Eastern Airlines. It's all fun and games being one with your union bretheren until the parent company signing the checks goes bankrupt. Walkom probably realizes one thing though... you need more officials when there are 30 teams in a league, rather than 21.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

It is a good read. Thanks for that.

Also, from the article, I wonder where Fraser is selling his cabinets? I mean, no one from Toronto or Calgary would buy them.

he is selling real estate, not cabinets.

 

[myrocketsgotcracked]

They haven't received a paycheck since the lockout started five months ago, but all 80 officials agreed beforehand they would not take jobs from other officials by working in other leagues.

but how would they keep their skill sharp and in game shape if they dont take jobs away from others (like the players are doing)?? :lol :lol

 

[Fish on The Sand]

Well, they should be. Isn't that supposed to be Walkom's job?

if the players are still lcoked out the nhl won't even think about the refs. The refs are the ones getting screwed. He isn't doing a disservice, he is doing a service.

 

[TBLightningFan]

No, just someone who believes in the right of collective bargaining as a cornerstone of the democratic process. I'm not a union person. Nor am I fraternally linked to any popular newspaper columnist.

Well I dont think all companies should have a democracy run them. I understand auto workers and other blue collar industries having unions so they can have a fight to make at least a decent living for themselves. You OWN the company... it is yours to do with as you please and set any rules you want.

I just don't agree with employees that earn 2000% over the poverty level telling someone else what to do with their property that they OWN!!!! Why should teams go bankrupt while players walk away with millions?

 

[Greschner4]

You mean the way the NHLPA showed solidarity with the officials in 1993 and crossed their picket lines?
The players threw the officials under the bus, but now they deserve the officials' support? Sure.

I could have forgotten, but I don't recall any sports players "union" supporting the picket line of ANY other union.

 

[ladybugblue]

Well, they should be. Isn't that supposed to be Walkom's job?

NEWS FLASH!!! If their is no NHL it really doesn't matter if he has a job or not. They aren't getting paid anyway!

 

[eye]

Surprised to read Walkom make these statements, given that his own association's collective bargaining agreement expires in June.

Unlike your father, a guy named Bob Goodenow the refs will do what's right for the game this time around.

 

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Bicycle Repairman
Well, they should be. Isn't that supposed to be Walkom's job?

Well no, that's not his main job believe it or not.

His job? To OFFICIATE NHL games.

Much like a hockey players JOB is to PLAY hockey.

Hilarious.

 

[joechip]

No, just someone who believes in the right of collective bargaining as a cornerstone of the democratic process. I'm not a union person. Nor am I fraternally linked to any popular newspaper columnist.

Collectives don't have rights. Individuals do. This entire mess exists because of such nebulous concepts such as 'anti-trust' and 'collective bargaining.' I have not heard one person express an understanding of real free-market economics in all the months of lurking/posting on this board, and BR's comments are the typical socialist nonsense that created this mess in the first place.

Given that this kind of labor/management strife is directly caused by the legal framework under which this industry operates the lesson we should be learning from this exercise is the refutation of government regulation as a means of achieving market order. The only people truly losing here are those who want to watch professional hockey. Our desires are being cut off because the owners are not free to provide us with the entertainment we seek. Anti-trust and Labor union legislation created this mess.

The players have used this system to their advantage for years (in all sports... starting in baseball) and the NHL owners are finally taking their side of it to the hilt, because they know that in the long-run the league is not a viable commercial enterprise without first destroying the system that is currently in place.

We, as fans, should not care one way or the other about how the NHL is run or how much the players make. We should care only whether our desires are being met by the concumption of the product produced at a price we are willing to pay.

Anti-trust and Union law subvert those desires, the proof of this is 150+ days old and counting.

Ta,

 

[joechip]

I understand auto workers and other blue collar industries having unions so they can have a fight to make at least a decent living for themselves. You OWN the company... it is yours to do with as you please and set any rules you want.

I just don't agree with employees that earn 2000% over the poverty level telling someone else what to do with their property that they OWN!!!! Why should teams go bankrupt while players walk away with millions?

TBFan, don't cry for the blue-collar workers. They do just fine, thank you very much.

The point is NO ONE should ever tell you what to do with the PROPERTY you OWN, if they can tell you what to do with it.... you don't own it. They do. People earn exactly what they deserve. That both sides of this fight have used the coersive power of government to extract more money from the taxbase to fund their business than they probably would have otherwise makes them both unworthy of our respect, IMO.

This fight is more about the ossification of the organizations fighting (both for their primary goal -- survival or their respective organizations.) than it is about serving the game, the fans, or providing a product worth consuming. Look, the NHL wants to survive as a league without having to reorganize. The NHLPA wants to survive to still have a purpose in this business. The first rule of any organization is self-perpetuation, it is not serving membership (NHLPA) or providing hockey games and awarding the Stanley Cup (NHL).

Ta,

 

[dedalus]

They did so under duress because of the court injunction and subsequently filed a protest.

It was a farce. No court would dare throw Joe Sakic in jail for refusing to cross a picket line much less the ENTIRE league. The court injunction was a convenient excuse for players to keep playing, nothing more.

Again, why should the NHL play nice with the NHLOA come June?

No. That argument's too easily turned: "Why should the NHL play nice with the NHLOA come June if the NHLOA sides with the players?"

Given what happened in '93 (and what will always happen when officials strike), NHLOA is far better off being an ally of management than an enemy in the most bitter dispute seen in North American sports labor history.