Hitman (2016)

SeidoN

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Couldnt find a thread on this and the beta is soon (PS4 on Feb 12th and PC on Feb 19th. Set in an ICA training facility)

for anyone not aware, the game is FULLY episodic now.

the Prologue and Paris mission launches in March, the Italy mission in April, the Morocco mission in May and then further monthly additions for the rest of 2016, with Thailand, Japan and the US confirmed as locations so far. Theres also additional smaller updates and weekly live events and challenges planned

the pricing model is.... interesting. You can buy the whole lot up front for $60 which gets you everything as its released. The second option is to pay $15 for the Intro Pack which gets you the Prologue and Paris missions then either pay a further $50 to upgrade to the full edition, or pay $10 for each add-on

im a bit salty that its not just a full release, and the pricing model is quite odd, but the game itself looks fantastic and im happy that its more Blood Money than Absolution

EDIT: its also been confirmed that beta access now comes with preordering just the Intro Pack and not just the full pack

also heres some gameplay if you havent seen any, but theres quite a few trailers and gameplay videos out there now

 
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Commander Clueless

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The switch to episodic after several delays really throws a red flag up on this one for me.

Don't get me wrong, it could still be great...it's just fishy.
 

SeidoN

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The switch to episodic after several delays really throws a red flag up on this one for me.

Don't get me wrong, it could still be great...it's just fishy.

its certainly quite strange. the optimist in me thinks maybe they need more development time and this is a lesser of two evils over delaying the whole thing. I just want more of Blood Money :yo:

I also dont have the money to drop on a full release at the moment so paying it episodically is actually fine with me hahaha :sarcasm:
 

Commander Clueless

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its certainly quite strange. the optimist in me thinks maybe they need more development time and this is a lesser of two evils over delaying the whole thing. I just want more of Blood Money :yo:

I also dont have the money to drop on a full release at the moment so paying it episodically is actually fine with me hahaha :sarcasm:

Could very well be.


The pessimist in me would look at the pricing and wonder why people who decide to buy it in chunks rather than pre-order the whole thing or buy the "full release" version when it's done are apparently penalized with a $5 extra charge.

Maybe I'm just paranoid. :laugh:
 

SeidoN

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im just trying to look past the structure of the game and just hope it ends up being Blood Money 2.0. I still load that game up every now and again and try new stuff or try to better my performance. But I know those maps/guard patterns/paths inside out now haha
 

Do Make Say Think

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Taking an episodic approach to gaming makes a ton of sense.

We get a lot of sequels that take years and years to make but that, more often than not, really improve the gameplay.

Episodic content shortens the cycle all while allowing developers and designers to act on feedback and re-iterate until they get to the sweet spot they were looking for (and never get there on the first try).

Obviously the price point is going to be a concern and could easily wreck the endeavour but if they price them appropriately then this is all for the best I think.
 

Commander Clueless

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Taking an episodic approach to gaming makes a ton of sense.

We get a lot of sequels that take years and years to make but that, more often than not, really improve the gameplay.

Episodic content shortens the cycle all while allowing developers and designers to act on feedback and re-iterate until they get to the sweet spot they were looking for (and never get there on the first try).

Obviously the price point is going to be a concern and could easily wreck the endeavour but if they price them appropriately then this is all for the best I think.

Definitely an interesting idea.

However, a concern I've seen from various sources (and one I tend to share) is how episodic games can break that elusive "immersion" feeling....or, more to the point, that you will lose interest in the game while waiting for the next episode. I was watching the Co-Optional Podcast guys talk about this, and they did a quick (and very, very high level) look at current episodic games - predominantly the Telltale games. Many of them see a massive drop off in people who play the first chapter to people who play the next chapters.

Now, that may be a moot point if the game is actually compelling...and television uses this format, so maybe it will work with games too.

I think in order to be successful, episodic AAA games will need to be more modular in nature. If you simply cut most modern AAA games into sections, what you get is many mundane sections. Story will drive this stuff, not game play....not to say game play isn't important, but you'd be hard pressed to keep people interested in the next episode without a story related reason (at least IMO). If episodes are more akin to short sequels of each other rather than chopped up bits of a single title, it should work a lot better. Should be interesting to see what happens.

I'm not sure if it's a good or a bad thing yet, but certainly an avenue worth exploring.

The part that raises a red flag for me is how long this has been in development already, with delay after delay culminating in the switch to episodic, rather than a push for episodic to begin with. Of course, that's only as far as we, the public, know. Who knows what actually happened internally?
 
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Belamorte

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I think this a garbage way to go. Release a whole game. When I buy a AAA game I want to play through the whole thing; not one bit then wait for a month for the next bit and so on (by then I have moved on to something else). If they could not get it done then they should just have waited till December (or whenever) to release the entire package. These type of games, at least to me, are one playthrough and done. I suppose I could wait until the entire game is released... I dont know, this model seems crazy to me.


Edit... and what Commander Clueless said
 

SeidoN

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early PS4 beta reports..... its VERY Blood Money :D :D :D

cant wait for PC beta now
 

HerrDonut

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We get a lot of sequels that take years and years to make but that, more often than not, really improve the gameplay.

Episodic content shortens the cycle all while allowing developers and designers to act on feedback and re-iterate until they get to the sweet spot they were looking for (and never get there on the first try).
Valve teased doing this with the Half-Life 2 episodes. It was beautiful, the way I remember it. Shorter length and self-contained, thus easier to consume (not that I had such a serious issue at all with Half-Life 2), and the incremental improvements were exciting. The set-pieces and storytelling in Episode 2 were exceptional next to the original entry. I adore it. But then... sigh.
 

vdB

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I'm with ya KaossKing. Blood Money Blood Money Blood Money! That game is in my top 10 of all time. Absolution was nothing like Blood Money, and was extremely disppointing. I remember face palming at a level where you had to RUN FROM THE COPS, like wtf :laugh:

Played the beta. 30 mins in I could already tell it's 10x better than Absolution, and feels much like Blood Money.

The way the 2nd training mission played out for me was hilarious. Won't get into spoilers, but let's just say my target saw a naked dead dude on the floor which lead to some funny dialogue. I'm sure this game will have many fun spontaneous moments like that.

Can't wait.
 

vdB

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Dec 28, 2006
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I've never played any of the Hitman games.
Where should I start? The last one, or should I play through them all to get a story thing complete etc?

I recommend just playing Bloody Money. It's got an HD remastered version and has aged pretty good imo.

Blood Money was my first Hitman game. I tried playing the earlier ones after but just couldn't get into em due to the mechanics. Bloody Money perfected them.

The series isn't really known for it's story-line, I wouldn't worry about that. This one is actually a prequel anyways. I think it takes place 20 years before the 1st game.
 

Do Make Say Think

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Valve teased doing this with the Half-Life 2 episodes. It was beautiful, the way I remember it. Shorter length and self-contained, thus easier to consume (not that I had such a serious issue at all with Half-Life 2), and the incremental improvements were exciting. The set-pieces and storytelling in Episode 2 were exceptional next to the original entry. I adore it. But then... sigh.

They mostly got side tracked
 

Vikke

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Feb 22, 2004
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I recommend just playing Bloody Money. It's got an HD remastered version and has aged pretty good imo.

Blood Money was my first Hitman game. I tried playing the earlier ones after but just couldn't get into em due to the mechanics. Bloody Money perfected them.

The series isn't really known for it's story-line, I wouldn't worry about that. This one is actually a prequel anyways. I think it takes place 20 years before the 1st game.

Great, thanks. I'll look into it, for sure.
 

SeidoN

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The series isn't really known for it's story-line, I wouldn't worry about that. This one is actually a prequel anyways. I think it takes place 20 years before the 1st game.

the beta mission is a prequel, but the rest of the game is post-Absolution
 

Phil McKraken

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I've made a worrying (for old school fans) discovery about the Beta and the Paris alpha. Unlike in the old games the key NPC AI:s don't have time-set routes but are instead completely dependent on you triggering them with your proximity.

Try sneaking directly into the the yacht target's office and waiting for him there. He will never arrive because you haven't been out on the deck to listen in on the conversation he conveniently starts precisely when you arrive to hear it. It's not so much the character reacting to something you do in-game as the character's AI simply reacting to your presence.

In the Paris mission I can give an even more obvious example. Novikov won't make an entrance until the exact moment you walk into the palace, no matter how long you take. Once he has walked down the stairs he gets told something and goes away backstage. You can then wander around for hours without missing a thing since his next conversation will be waiting for you backstage forever. This goes on and on; the script activates once you're in the 'correct' spot and then runs to its next stop where it stays until you choose to continue.

For a game which main strenght is supposedly open-endedness, freedom of approach and experimentation that's a HUGE con.
 

vdB

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I'm cool with that. I can see it being annoying on multiple playthroughs, but I rarely play games twice.

And regarding the script, that's all new stuff. There was little to no dialogue between npcs in the old school games.
 

Do Make Say Think

& Yet & Yet
Jun 26, 2007
51,157
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I've made a worrying (for old school fans) discovery about the Beta and the Paris alpha. Unlike in the old games the key NPC AI:s don't have time-set routes but are instead completely dependent on you triggering them with your proximity.

Try sneaking directly into the the yacht target's office and waiting for him there. He will never arrive because you haven't been out on the deck to listen in on the conversation he conveniently starts precisely when you arrive to hear it. It's not so much the character reacting to something you do in-game as the character's AI simply reacting to your presence.

In the Paris mission I can give an even more obvious example. Novikov won't make an entrance until the exact moment you walk into the palace, no matter how long you take. Once he has walked down the stairs he gets told something and goes away backstage. You can then wander around for hours without missing a thing since his next conversation will be waiting for you backstage forever. This goes on and on; the script activates once you're in the 'correct' spot and then runs to its next stop where it stays until you choose to continue.

For a game which main strenght is supposedly open-endedness, freedom of approach and experimentation that's a HUGE con.

This is a good example of flavour vs gameplay.

It makes much more sense (what I refer to as flavour) for things to happen even if you aren't there to witness/trigger them.

The flip side is it can be easier to exploit and lead to fragmented gameplay experience where the player missed out on a lot of important information and sometimes stumbles his or her to victory through sheer, dumb luck: both of these are things designers should aim to avoid at all costs. You don't get second chances to make a first impression.

As far as design goes I think gameplay should always trump flavour but the tension between the two is enhanced in a video game. Still, in this case having the player experience key events before being able to complete the level doesn't deter exploration which is clearly going to be a huge pillar this game relies on.

The only real downside I see is "it makes no sense", which is valid but ultimately meaningless and that speed runs are going to be lengthened. And even for speed runs, it's not that big of deal.
 

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