Hindsight Trade

[majormet]

Watching the Isles play, for the last season and change, they have gone south since letting Mr Nielsen go... so basically we signed Ladd to a bad deal and Detroit signed Frans to a bad deal. There is no way that this would happen but curious to what the board's opinion of this mock trade

Frans Nielsen for Andrew Ladd

My guess is Isles would be all over it and Detroit would hold their nose.

If that is the case, this is exactly where Snow went wrong and ended the Isles' dreams.

Click to read more...

 

[Strait2thecup]

He cant be worse than ladd. Would do it without thinking twice

 

[eoin92]

Pretty sure Ladd has a full no movement clause.

 

[Sparksrus3]

Yes , we see it every game .
BA Da Bump

 

[majormet]

Yes , we see it every game .
BA Da Bump

You look for signs or turning points, and with this Islander team it was taking Ladd over Frans... since Bailey replaced KO for the most part and Martin was missed but not essential.

The early 1993 team.. would be not signing Ray Ferraro (nobody likes him, hateworthy human)
The dynasty teams would be the early retirement of Bossy

Frans anchored the power player, covered up for rookie errors, got shootut points, was effective in 3 zones and easily the smartest player on the ice.... he was so undervalued by Snow,

Ladd makes more than Frans right?

 

[PK Cronin]

Pretty sure Ladd has a full no movement clause.

Only for this season, then he loses it.

 

[PK Cronin]

You look for signs or turning points, and with this Islander team it was taking Ladd over Frans... since Bailey replaced KO for the most part and Martin was missed but not essential.

The early 1993 team.. would be not signing Ray Ferraro (nobody likes him, hateworthy human)
The dynasty teams would be the early retirement of Bossy

Frans anchored the power player, covered up for rookie errors, got shootut points, was effective in 3 zones and easily the smartest player on the ice.... he was so undervalued by Snow,

Ladd makes more than Frans right?

I think you're overvaluing Nielsen. He was good but he wasn't capable of carrying the offense when it mattered (not that Ladd can or does). Snow offered him a deal and he walked, he isn't worth what he's making and certainly not worth more.

 

[SLAPSHOT723]

Frans Nielsen continues to be the most overrated player in Islander history. He did a lot of good things, but he wasn't as good as some people here think he was.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I think you're overvaluing Nielsen. He was good but he wasn't capable of carrying the offense when it mattered (not that Ladd can or does). Snow offered him a deal and he walked, he isn't worth what he's making and certainly not worth more.

On the other side, I think what Nielsen did bring was never fully replaced when he left. He's not a star, but he was consistently in the 40-50 point range while playing very good defense. I think that type of player (who can produce 45+ points AND be relied upon as the defensive ace) is part of what's been missing from the Isles since Nielsen left.

 

[BelovedIsles]

Two summers ago I mentioned that the bigger loss would be Nielsen over KO. He does so many little things (and a few big), as noted his defensive ability that hastened the transition game is something that is sorely lacking right now. He also had good chemistry with JT.

With that said, Nielsen's game is on the decline. So we'd have a lesser version.

 

[And You Feel Shame]

The early 1993 team.. would be not signing Ray Ferraro (nobody likes him, hateworthy human)

Disagree with this 100%. We were long down the path to mediocrity when Ferraro walked to the Rangers.

Turgeon for Muller was already done. Hogue for Fichaud was already done. Getting swept by the Rangers in round 1... done. The 1993 expansion draft is the most likely turning point, exposing Fitzgerald and Healy.

Or you might go as far as Dale Hunter assaulting Turgeon as an alternative, because Turgeon's play was impacted for the rest of his time with the Islanders leading to disappointing results and the disassembly of that team.

Ferraro signing with the Rangers was a slap in the face (and Flatley following suit the next summer) but it was the tail end of that team's legacy already.

 

[majormet]

Disagree with this 100%. We were long down the path to mediocrity when Ferraro walked to the Rangers.

Turgeon for Muller was already done. Hogue for Fichaud was already done. Getting swept by the Rangers in round 1... done. The 1993 expansion draft is the most likely turning point, exposing Fitzgerald and Healy.

Or you might go as far as Dale Hunter assaulting Turgeon as an alternative, because Turgeon's play was impacted for the rest of his time with the Islanders leading to disappointing results and the disassembly of that team.

Ferraro signing with the Rangers was a slap in the face (and Flatley following suit the next summer) but it was the tail end of that team's legacy already.

I believe you are right my chronology was off, the Turgeon trade was the coup de grace, that 1993 team had so much potential with young versions of Malakhov, Kasparaitis, Lachance, McInnis, ... Don Maloney really was the worst GM for this team

 

[majormet]

Frans Nielsen continues to be the most overrated player in Islander history. He did a lot of good things, but he wasn't as good as some people here think he was.

Ouch that is blasphemy LOL

Frans gone.. power play is awful
Frans Gone - can't win a shootout
Frans Gone - we get blown out of games

He was the voice of reason on the ice, he covered up for so many mistakes, was able to clear the puck, made very smart decisions and was the dirtiest worker along the boards and he isn't the biggest guy

I argue that he is among the most underrated Isles of all time, no one is more underrated than Stefan Persson

Most overrated Isle of all time,... that is hard to assess, most Isles are underrated league wise, but if there is a guy that I have to put on the list it would be Mr Jeff Norton

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

I think what Nielsen did bring was never fully replaced when he left.

Agreed. The team doesn't need Nielsen, they need someone to replace what he did, and this wasn't done. His ship has sailed and not bringing him back is fine, because at his age at that price is silly. The team should have tried to bring someone better into that role, ideally someone who can win faceoffs and score at a better clip than Nielsen.

 

[skyo]

Watching the Isles play, for the last season and change, they have gone south since letting Mr Nielsen go... so basically we signed Ladd to a bad deal and Detroit signed Frans to a bad deal. There is no way that this would happen but curious to what the board's opinion of this mock trade

Frans Nielsen for Andrew Ladd

My guess is Isles would be all over it and Detroit would hold their nose.

If that is the case, this is exactly where Snow went wrong and ended the Isles' dreams.

Speaking of bad deals, how about a swap of em - change of scenery deal.

How about Eriksson for Ladd.

By TDD if both players are still playing meh, how about a swap (just hypothetical if both players agree to waive their NTC's early).

I just think Tavares with Eriksson would be pretty good, Loui has worked his best with a player of his ilk in Brad Richards and David Krejci.

And the Canucks could use some grit in their top 9 LW, plus Ladd is a local BC boy, might help with the ntc.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Ouch that is blasphemy LOL

Frans gone.. power play is awful
Frans Gone - can't win a shootout
Frans Gone - we get blown out of games

He was the voice of reason on the ice, he covered up for so many mistakes, was able to clear the puck, made very smart decisions and was the dirtiest worker along the boards and he isn't the biggest guy

I argue that he is among the most underrated Isles of all time, no one is more underrated than Stefan Persson

Most overrated Isle of all time,... that is hard to assess, most Isles are underrated league wise, but if there is a guy that I have to put on the list it would be Mr Jeff Norton

How does losing Frans Nielsen equate to getting blown out in games?

 

[YesCubed]

I'd rather Nielsen at his contract than Clutterbuck at his

 

[majormet]

How does losing Frans Nielsen equate to getting blown out in games?

We never got blown out ever when he was on the roster, he played a lot of shifts, he was very careful with the puck, he would slow down the tempo if we gave up a bad goal. Watch clips of any games from 2013-2015 and you will see that he had the most puck touches and got all his teammates involved. And his intensity carried off on the other players, look at how well Kulemin played with him. Just imagine the Isles game in the 3rd period tonight... you would double shift Nielsen and command the puck on his stick just to preserve that lead.

 

[PK Cronin]

We never got blown out ever when he was on the roster, he played a lot of shifts, he was very careful with the puck, he would slow down the tempo if we gave up a bad goal. Watch clips of any games from 2013-2015 and you will see that he had the most puck touches and got all his teammates involved. And his intensity carried off on the other players, look at how well Kulemin played with him. Just imagine the Isles game in the 3rd period tonight... you would double shift Nielsen and command the puck on his stick just to preserve that lead.

You're living in a fantasy land. Nielsen was good, but he wasn't that good. The team was notorious for blowing leads while he was on the roster. Blowouts aren't stopped by having one particular player on the roster, especially at forward. He didn't elevate the play of anyone when it mattered, and he was routinely shut down in the biggest of games for the team. He's did very little for the team in the playoffs when they got there because he was unable to elevate his own game. The only memorable goal I remember him scoring in the playoffs was game 7 in Washington, which was a shot that had no business going in the net. I remember it vividly because I was sitting up behind Holtby at the time and couldn't believe that little flub of a shot snuck in. He also didn't play with Kulemin much, he was playing with Bailey and Okposo, while Kulemin was playing with Grabovski (when he was healthy).

 

[majormet]

Grabo was never healthy and I believe the line at one time was Grabner/Frans/Kulemin... That was where he played before Lee came into play I guess

Nielsen was very good, he just wasn't good, maybe I overrate guys that can play in 3 zones, block shots, go into the dirty areas, kill penalties, quarterback the power play, while being a shootout specialist, but Frans was that guy. Is he a franchise player no? But the Isles developed him into a very good 2C, one of the best in the game for the last 2 years he was here. Letting him go in favor of Ladd, was the Islanders sign that the commitment to defense was gone. Isles blew leads in the early part of the decade, when they finally got good, they didn't blow leads any more, because he was a very trustworthy game manager when on ice. His loss was so obvious last year and still permeates through with every game. He was dependable and in the playoffs he was matched up against the best centers of Washington and Tampa.

We differ on this player, he was at the heart of this team... should have signed him mid season probably for less than Detroit gave him.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Grabo was never healthy and I believe the line at one time was Grabner/Frans/Kulemin... That was where he played before Lee came into play I guess

Nielsen was very good, he just wasn't good, maybe I overrate guys that can play in 3 zones, block shots, go into the dirty areas, kill penalties, quarterback the power play, while being a shootout specialist, but Frans was that guy. Is he a franchise player no? But the Isles developed him into a very good 2C, one of the best in the game for the last 2 years he was here. Letting him go in favor of Ladd, was the Islanders sign that the commitment to defense was gone. Isles blew leads in the early part of the decade, when they finally got good, they didn't blow leads any more, because he was a very trustworthy game manager when on ice. His loss was so obvious last year and still permeates through with every game. He was dependable and in the playoffs he was matched up against the best centers of Washington and Tampa.

We differ on this player, he was at the heart of this team... should have signed him mid season probably for less than Detroit gave him.

Oh, looking back at it maybe they should've resigned Nielsen ahead of Ladd. The problem is they shouldn't have signed either of them. What they should've done is actually replaced him.

 

[beach]

Ouch that is blasphemy LOL

Frans gone.. power play is awful
Frans Gone - can't win a shootout
Frans Gone - we get blown out of games

He was the voice of reason on the ice, he covered up for so many mistakes, was able to clear the puck, made very smart decisions and was the dirtiest worker along the boards and he isn't the biggest guy

I argue that he is among the most underrated Isles of all time, no one is more underrated than Stefan Persson

Most overrated Isle of all time,... that is hard to assess, most Isles are underrated league wise, but if there is a guy that I have to put on the list it would be Mr Jeff Norton

I completely agree - and if you polled NHL players, this is the answer you would likely get.

 

[YesCubed]

Oh, looking back at it maybe they should've resigned Nielsen ahead of Ladd. The problem is they shouldn't have signed either of them. What they should've done is actually replaced him.

IIRC, they wanted to keep Nielsen but Nielsen got an offer from the Red Wings and went there instead

 

[majormet]

Oh, looking back at it maybe they should've resigned Nielsen ahead of Ladd. The problem is they shouldn't have signed either of them. What they should've done is actually replaced him.

You reward your loyal guys and even if Frans washes up, he plays hard, so a 37 year old Frans will give you 100% effort while the 32 year old Ladd has mailed it in and collects his checks already

 

[majormet]

IIRC, they wanted to keep Nielsen but Nielsen got an offer from the Red Wings and went there instead

He would have been 1 mill per year cheaper if he was extended a year earlier,