HF Spring 2007 Organizational rankings (1-15)

[BadBruins]

yes but his point was that price was highly ranked before the draft and he was drafted way before Rash. Also he's proving he's a top end goalie prospect in the best level before the NHL while Rask hasnt played here but IMO it would be hard for Rask to match Price early record in the AHL.

and for the no-reason factor but still intesresting, Price is bigger and younger by 5 months than Rask so if we go by the HFboards Gospel he win easily !

First off, draft position should have no effect on how a prospect is regarded. Many people have Rask ranked ahead of Price, so it's not a stretch to suggest he's the better prospect. Rask has been one of the top goalies in the pro Finnish league for the past two seasons.

By your logic Halak sucks, considering he's 22, is 3 inches shorter than Rask and was drafted in the 9th "friggen" round.....

 

[Mr. Hab]

First off, draft position should have no effect on how a prospect is regarded. Many people have Rask ranked ahead of Price, so it's not a stretch to suggest he's the better prospect. Rask has been one of the top goalies in the pro Finnish league for the past two seasons.

By your logic Halak sucks, considering he's 22, is 3 inches shorter than Rask and was drafted in the 9th "friggen" round.....

I don't even feel like arguing with a Bruins fan!! All of my energy was spent on Leaf fans (kidding!).


Let the old rivalry begin (again!)...
Price
vs
Rask

Time will tell...(should be a great/classic goaltending duel).

 

[Mr. Hab]

Why are the habs #2, I see Price, I see Kostitsyn, but after that there is nobody that good. I easily put the next 7 or 8 teams in front of them.

Well...I'm glad that you (at least) SEE Price and Kostitsyn ('cause lots of people were bashing Price before WJC, and lots were bashing A.Kostitsyn in the last 2 years, until...now).


You wrote: "...but after that there is nobody that good" ?!?!...


Habs are #2 (& imo) it is because they have 10 (or more) solid prospects, lots of quality depth; not just 1-2 elite prospects along with 3-4 good prospects :

Latendresse (graduated): potential in being a regular top 6 Power Forward
Halak (Harding & Halak were the best prospect goalies playing in the NHL last year...Halak has the potential to be a solid #1 goalie)
Price (potential franchise goalie for the HABS...there are 2 prospect goalies that I would honestly take before any others: Price and...Rask)
Andrei Kostitsyn (wasn't always sure, now...I'm sure about his eye-catching skills, it's just a matter of continuing his play with lots of confidence, that's what made the difference imo; he has a heavy shot, is a very smooth skater/dangler...very fun to watch; he's an ultra fast thinker with his passing skills...I was shocked at some of his passes last season! I just hope he continues...)
Lapierre (very fast, gritty, smart two-way player, lots of heart)
Chipchura (should be solid 3rd line center, the kind you want/need in playoffs; was captain for Team Canada at WJC 2006...Chip could be the future captain of the HABS, or at worst, an assistant captain to either Komisarek & Higgins...)
Grabovski (lots of skills, great skater, great for the new NHL)
Sergei Kostitsyn (skills, grit, can PK)
Ryan O'Byrne (6'5, 230 lbs physical Defenseman!!; very similar to Komisarek...I can't wait to see him in a HAB jersey)
Fischer (should/will end up solid, two-way, TOP 4 defenseman for the HABS)
Emelin (won best defenseman award at WJC 2006...compared to a taller Kasparitis)
Valentenko (very physical defenseman, lots of potential)
Ben Maxwell (should be on WJC team 2008)
Ryan White (among WHL scoring leaders...lots of heart, grit, potential)

 

[Gwyddbwyll]

Following a major catastrophe in this year's draft, I could see Phoenix and especially Edmonton moving up in the rankings. PHX has the third overall and Dallas' pick which is 21st or 22nd I believe. I believe Edmonton has 3 1st round picks so they will definitely be adding to an already impressive prospect pool.

Mueller will likely graduate which will dim the name recognition of Phoenix's prospects. Jones and Thomas should as well and possibly Yandle. Coyotes do have a particularly strong group outside their top 5 - Wheeler, Lisin, Porter, Summers, Thomas, LeNeveu which should have counted for more. I dont think many teams have that.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Do you ever do anything else then whine about how thin Minnesota is on prospects? I agree that it might be a stretch to have them in the top ten, but players like Sheppard, Irmen and Madsen are all very promising, add Clutterbuck, Fiala and Pouliot and you can't say that the forward corps don't look good.

The problem is, is Irmen is projected to be a third line center, second might be a stretch and is really a dime a dozen player. Madsen is a boom or bust prospect. You look at someone like Foy. Tore up the Q but did squat in the AHL and NHL and he had size. Clutterbuck and Fiala are questionable prospects too. Fiala has had to battle back from injuries and Clutterbuck is similar to Irmen.

Pouliot had a very disappointing season last year in the AHL. He kind of coasted and is looking to be like a major project to work with. His season in the O is looking more and more like the player he'll be like in the AHL/NHL. A lot of talent but not enough to put it all together.

Sheppard is by far our best prospect.

And I've been proven right about our thin goaltending depth (a major problem for Houston this year. They had like 4 goaltenders, two veterans, two young guys) and none of them actually worked out. And we need defensive help still but we have no one in the AHL to really call up to shore up our defense.

 

[Jeffrey]

First off, draft position should have no effect on how a prospect is regarded. Many people have Rask ranked ahead of Price, so it's not a stretch to suggest he's the better prospect. Rask has been one of the top goalies in the pro Finnish league for the past two seasons.

By your logic Halak sucks, considering he's 22, is 3 inches shorter than Rask and was drafted in the 9th "friggen" round.....

ok so prove me then that Rask is a better prospect than Price !

 

[Chrisd]

The problem is, is Irmen is projected to be a third line center, second might be a stretch and is really a dime a dozen player. Madsen is a boom or bust prospect. You look at someone like Foy. Tore up the Q but did squat in the AHL and NHL and he had size. Clutterbuck and Fiala are questionable prospects too. Fiala has had to battle back from injuries and Clutterbuck is similar to Irmen.

Pouliot had a very disappointing season last year in the AHL. He kind of coasted and is looking to be like a major project to work with. His season in the O is looking more and more like the player he'll be like in the AHL/NHL. A lot of talent but not enough to put it all together.

Sheppard is by far our best prospect.

And I've been proven right about our thin goaltending depth (a major problem for Houston this year. They had like 4 goaltenders, two veterans, two young guys) and none of them actually worked out. And we need defensive help still but we have no one in the AHL to really call up to shore up our defense.

NO thats all he does is whine about wild and their prospects, never seen anything positive out of him, it's a once a year type thing. Some people are the sky is falling type...he fits the bill

 

[Bruinster*]

ok so prove me then that Rask is a better prospect than Price !

It funny how you put Price AHL playoff perfomance to prove your point, but forget about if he play in the AHL is because he was kick out of WHL playoff very early.

Next year when they would be in the AHL our opinion can be a little more accurate.

 

[Bronson]

The problem is, is Irmen is projected to be a third line center, second might be a stretch and is really a dime a dozen player. Madsen is a boom or bust prospect. You look at someone like Foy. Tore up the Q but did squat in the AHL and NHL and he had size. Clutterbuck and Fiala are questionable prospects too. Fiala has had to battle back from injuries and Clutterbuck is similar to Irmen.

Pouliot had a very disappointing season last year in the AHL. He kind of coasted and is looking to be like a major project to work with. His season in the O is looking more and more like the player he'll be like in the AHL/NHL. A lot of talent but not enough to put it all together.

Sheppard is by far our best prospect.

And I've been proven right about our thin goaltending depth (a major problem for Houston this year. They had like 4 goaltenders, two veterans, two young guys) and none of them actually worked out. And we need defensive help still but we have no one in the AHL to really call up to shore up our defense.

Pouliot was injured and didn't have a good playmaker by his side and therefor had a weak season. I believe that the lack of good centers in Houston did the same for Voloshenko.

Clutterbuck has high potential, I know that his numbers might be inflated because he played on the same line as Tavares, but the fact that he did also shows that the coach has high confidence in him. Maybe he'll even play as high as second line some day.

Fiala had a bad injury, but he's doing his best to fix it up and I don't have a hard time believing that he actually will.

Madsen looks very promising and fits the Wild's playing system a lot better than Foy ever did.

Granted, the Wild are thin on D-men, but Albers looks like he has good potential and Stoners season was hurt by him being injured. Also Thelen just might pull it all together now, the same goes for Belle who really looks like a boom/bust kind of prospect.

Now for goaltenders, we have Harding, who will be a starting goalie in the NHL one day and Hovinen who put up some very impressive stats in the Finnish junior league. The ones who played in the Aeros were bad though.

Irmen will probably be a solid third line player and I can't see what's wrong with that. Are you suggesting that only blue-chip prospects should count as good prospects?

 

[Chrisd]

Pouliot was injured and didn't have a good playmaker by his side and therefor had a weak season. I believe that the lack of good centers in Houston did the same for Voloshenko.

Clutterbuck has high potential, I know that his numbers might be inflated because he played on the same line as Tavares, but the fact that he did also shows that the coach has high confidence in him. Maybe he'll even play as high as second line some day.

Fiala had a bad injury, but he's doing his best to fix it up and I don't have a hard time believing that he actually will.

Madsen looks very promising and fits the Wild's playing system a lot better than Foy ever did.

Granted, the Wild are thin on D-men, but Albers looks like he has good potential and Stoners season was hurt by him being injured. Also Thelen just might pull it all together now, the same goes for Belle who really looks like a boom/bust kind of prospect.

Now for goaltenders, we have Harding, who will be a starting goalie in the NHL one day and Hovinen who put up some very impressive stats in the Finnish junior league. The ones who played in the Aeros were bad though.

Irmen will probably be a solid third line player and I can't see what's wrong with that. Are you suggesting that only blue-chip prospects should count as good prospects?

You are spot on...

Wild have some good spects, not great, but good. Josh Harding imo is as good as any prospect goalie in the world. I know the wild wouldn't trade him for price or raask. He's performed at every level WHL/AHL and given his chances in the NHL he's been GREAT.

So having that big time goalie alone is a huge prospect plus.

Guys you mentioned like Irmen/Clutterbuck are just gonna be pests and get under opposing players skin. I like the potential of both. Even if they are only 3rd liners, you need more then 2 lines in hockey last i looked, and Irmen is just a freaking warrior out there, I hear great things on Cal as well.

You are right about Pouliot, he still worries me a bit, but he didn't exactly have a lot to work with in Houston last year, I'd like to see what he can do with a real playmaker. James Sheppard looks like a great pick no doubt.

Morten Madsen looks pretty sweet, wild obviously like him. Led qmjhl in short handed goals, looks like he can play in any role. Heard nothing but positives about him. Unlike Foy, he didnt have a locke to go along with him. Looks like a steal to me.

Defense is the one area we really need help, need a blue chip or maybe 2 dmen to help us in the future.

Overall i'm pretty happy with the guys we have coming up on offense and Harding is the nuts, so we are fine there. Unlike some I don't freak out over having a ton of goalies in the system, at the CHL level, AHL level wherever.....as long as we have backstrom and Harding for the forseeable future, I'm really not too worried AT ALL about that issue.

 

[Bronson]

Overall i'm pretty happy with the guys we have coming up on offense and Harding is the nuts, so we are fine there. Unlike some I don't freak out over having a ton of goalies in the system, at the CHL level, AHL level wherever.....as long as we have backstrom and Harding for the forseeable future, I'm really not too worried AT ALL about that issue.

Agreed. There is no point in having tons of good prospects if you're never going to let them go on the team. Bäckström is 29 and Harding is 23 so there's no reason to freak out over not having any talented goalie prospects. There will be a lot of drafts before we even should start thinking about it.

 

[Chrisd]

you are correct sir.....

I'd be ok with using a 3rd pick or later on a goalie now.....but no need to burn a 1st on one with our situation.

 

[bullsville]

I dont get why Montreal is in the 2 spot and the Blackhawks 3...
Toews,Barker,Blunden,Bolland,Skille,Makarov,Wisnewski,Crawford,Brouwer,Davis...and this is a worst propect pool than Montreal?...sorry but i dont get it

 

[Joe MacMillan]

yes but his point was that price was highly ranked before the draft and he was drafted way before Rash. Also he's proving he's a top end goalie prospect in the best level before the NHL while Rask hasnt played here but IMO it would be hard for Rask to match Price early record in the AHL.

and for the no-reason factor but still intesresting, Price is bigger and younger by 5 months than Rask so if we go by the HFboards Gospel he win easily !

ummm.. the AHL isn't the best league in the world outside the NHL. It is comparable to the Finnish league which is behind the SEL and the RSL.

So you say that Price has proven to be a top end goalie at a pretty high level and is miles ahead of Rask while you complitely ignore the fact that Rask has been playing amazing the last couple years at a very similar level.

 

[MrMastodonFarm*]

I take offense to this post. The Oilers have developed players if you open your eyes from your anti-Oilers hatred. Players the Oilers have developed are Hemsky, Stoll, Smid, Horcoff, Torres, Pisani and there's probably more. I'm sick of reading crap like this.

Sorry if you're offended.

The Oilers had a reputation of not being able to draft will and develop just as poorly. Over the past 2-4 years Oiler fans have been saying how since Lowe etc took over they've gotten better at this, but where is the proof?

Smid, Torres, Stoll? All drafted by other organizations where their development was already taking place. I'll give you partial credit for Stoll however, as he didn't spend one game in the Flames farm system.

Hemsky, Horcoff, Pisani.. whoop de do?

We all heard about the Oilers prospects back in 2003/2004, they had Jani Rita, Alexi Mikhnov, Jesse Niinimaki, Doug Lynch, Jeff Woywitka, Jeff Drouin-Delariaus, etc etc etc

Now there is a new batch to over-hype.

I think it's time a team like the Devils, who develop players get the benefit of the doubt over teams like the Oilers, who, until they PROVE they can, not just fan wanting, to do.

 

[Jeffrey]

It funny how you put Price AHL playoff perfomance to prove your point, but forget about if he play in the AHL is because he was kick out of WHL playoff very early.

Next year when they would be in the AHL our opinion can be a little more accurate.

Of course Tri-city was a contender ... they wouldnt have even made the playoff without him !
Also dominating the AHL as a 19 years old after one full WHL season + WJC + WHL playoff = exhaunsting and incedibly impressive.

ummm.. the AHL isn't the best league in the world outside the NHL. It is comparable to the Finnish league which is behind the SEL and the RSL.

So you say that Price has proven to be a top end goalie at a pretty high level and is miles ahead of Rask while you complitely ignore the fact that Rask has been playing amazing the last couple years at a very similar level.

ok let's check Karri Ramo
pretty impressive the the FNL, ordinary in the AHL

or what about Ari Ahonen, the next finish superstar in the FNL and a bust in the AHL.

Ask any GM or coach what is the best league to play & learn before the NHL I bet most of them would say the AHL.

Again there are exception like Kari Lehtonen that did very good in the FNL & AHL. He was also considered the best prospect in the World at that time.

Im not trying to discredit Rask or bash a Bruins prospect, he's a great goalie and im sure he'll have a great career in the NHL and fully deserves his high rank & praise.

I just wanted to know what could Price do more as far as a prospect? and worse he STILL dont get the recognition of a legit top 5 prospects here.
name me one goalie with :

1 WJC goalie of the tournament (haha easy, Rask already won it as a 18 years old)
1 WJC MVP (I dont even remember the last one , but yes it probably happened quite sometimes)
1 First all-star team WHL (or any league)
1 WHL(or any league) Playoff (I know there would be talk about his ''failure'' in the playoff, but what could you do more to help your team then stop 40-50 pucks each game in the Playoff .. and did Rask even made the playoff ?(I cant verify that))
1 AHL playoff, en route to the final (as of right now 2-0 Hamilton lead in the series)
(if he win the Calder cup you can add the calder cup to his resume and probably the playoff MVP)

All this as a 19 years old and in the span of 1 year !! I repeat what could Price do more as far as a prospect ?

I dont remember a goalie prospect with that good of year!

 

[It Kills Me]

I dont get why Montreal is in the 2 spot and the Blackhawks 3...
Toews,Barker,Blunden,Bolland,Skille,Makarov,Wisnewski,Crawford,Brouwer,Davis...and this is a worst propect pool than Montreal?...sorry but i dont get it

I agree. I wouldn't even put Montreal in the top 10.

Other then Price and possibly Kostitsyn they don't have much compared to other teams.

 

[RC51]

I knew when the ratings came out their would be a lot of bashing.
The bottom line that can not be avoided concerning the habs prospects is that almost all of them have had a very very good year.
It really does not concern me that perhaps another team has prospects doing well, what I want to know is if OUR prospects are doing well.
The answer as to which is better will come all by its self as everybodys prospects hit the NHL.

 

[Joe MacMillan]

ok let's check Karri Ramo
pretty impressive the the FNL, ordinary in the AHL

or what about Ari Ahonen, the next finish superstar in the FNL and a bust in the AHL.

A lot of players that have played in both leagues have said these two leagues are pretty comparable in terms of competitiveness (is that even a word?).

Although I think it's meaningless to compare two leagues by using players' stats to prove a point, I'll respond anyways.

Rämö:
I dont know what are you trying to say. To my knowledge, he had a great season behind an extremely weak defence in the AHL last season. Was named as the top goaltender in the AHL All-Star skill competition for example. In his final year in Finland he posted great stats on a championship winning team, but played as a backup (or a 1B starter). Go and find his stats when he played for the worst team in Finland two seasons ago. That team would be more equilavent to his current team in the AHL.

Ahonen:
A backup in Finland last season.

Ask any GM or coach what is the best league to play & learn before the NHL I bet most of them would say the AHL.

I agree on that one. But only because its style of play is closest to the NHL.

Again there are exception like Kari Lehtonen that did very good in the FNL & AHL. He was also considered the best prospect in the World at that time.

...And try to guess who is widely considered the next possible Kari Lehtonen after a dominant year in Finland.

 

[Narnia]

Sorry if you're offended.

The Oilers had a reputation of not being able to draft will and develop just as poorly. Over the past 2-4 years Oiler fans have been saying how since Lowe etc took over they've gotten better at this, but where is the proof?

Smid, Torres, Stoll? All drafted by other organizations where their development was already taking place. I'll give you partial credit for Stoll however, as he didn't spend one game in the Flames farm system.

Hemsky, Horcoff, Pisani.. whoop de do?

We all heard about the Oilers prospects back in 2003/2004, they had Jani Rita, Alexi Mikhnov, Jesse Niinimaki, Doug Lynch, Jeff Woywitka, Jeff Drouin-Delariaus, etc etc etc

Now there is a new batch to over-hype.

I think it's time a team like the Devils, who develop players get the benefit of the doubt over teams like the Oilers, who, until they PROVE they can, not just fan wanting, to do.

I can't expect anything but criticizing the Oilers from a Flames fan.

 

[MrMastodonFarm*]

I can't expect anything but criticizing the Oilers from a Flames fan.

Rediculous.

Why don't you address the post? Forget who my favourite team is, I compared the situation to the Devils, not the Flames.

So address the post, or suck it up.

 

[Nich]

it doesn't bother me that you disagree but give me some reasons as to why. all i'm saying is that although it is nice to have a bright future as an organization, many prospects do not pan out or do not blossom until a few years down the road. being #1 one on this board or any other doesn't equate to future success...shows some hope maybe...but unless your team has some blue chip prospects ready to play, these rankings really don't mean all that much.

well first off in my opinion, just because a player wasn't a blue chip when drafted, doesn't mean he can't turn into one hell of a hockey player....for example, lundqvist was a 7th round pick.

i also believe that the more players you have in your stable that could be 3rd or 4th lines, means less chance of you having to go outside your system to get those players...and usually for more money. which saves cash and allows teams to target that franchise player.

and also, not only franchise players selected in the first round make a impact. rangers had tuts, prucha and lundqvist last year, girardi, callahan, this year. onl one you would call a franchise players, that being lundqvist, but you can't deny the impact of the other so called 3rd - 4th line players, and 5-6th d-men.

thats why i disagree.

 

[hab]

I dont get why Montreal is in the 2 spot and the Blackhawks 3...
Toews,Barker,Blunden,Bolland,Skille,Makarov,Wisnewski,Crawford,Brouwer,Davis...and this is a worst propect pool than Montreal?...sorry but i dont get it

I am a habs fan, and I totally agree with you. The blackhawks should have been no.1 without question. They have the potential superstars in Toews and Baker, and I would say by far the best prospect depth in the the league.
How Montreal or LA came ahead of them is beyond me. Throw in this years no.1 pick and they should be a top team for a long time

 

[Soilent Green]

so address the post, or suck it up

Address what, your observation that the Oilers prospects were overated 4 years ago? Well good on you Sherlock, very observant. Some prospects don't work out, and several of those have not. Did you notice that only JDD & Mikhnov were left, and quite low on the depth chart? The others were traded for assets while they were still rated highly. I don't care if Woywitka & Lynch are busts, they're still worth 2/3s of Pronger (along with Brewer of course).

The Oilers had a reputation of not being able to draft will and develop just as poorly. Over the past 2-4 years Oiler fans have been saying how since Lowe etc took over they've gotten better at this, but where is the proof?

Oh I see, you want proof of a good draft 2-4 years later. You just keep on judging drafts 2-4 years out, and we'll keep on ignoring you.

Hemsky, Horcoff, Pisani.. whoop de do?

Hemsky= whoop de do?? Very objective and non-trolling.

All of the above are consistant only in that they are totally irrelevant to the current Oiler ranking. Tell me Mr. Mastodon, how does your post have anything at all to do with the ranking of the '07 Oil?

 

[MrMastodonFarm*]

All of the above are consistant only in that they are totally irrelevant to the current Oiler ranking. Tell me Mr. Mastodon, how does your post have anything at all to do with the ranking of the '07 Oil?

It has to do with the ranking in terms of 2007 being similar to previous rankings. The point was that maybe it's time to give the benefit of the doubt to teams like the Devils that develop players and not rank teams that don't (The Oilers) that benefit. That is why previous ranking was brought up. Sorry if I didn't make that clear in my intial post.
.

Hemsky= whoop de do?? Very objective and non-trolling.

"Whoop de do" = 3 players. Hemsky was a very good pick in that spot. Though the jury is still very much out on if he has developed into anything but a one-way flashy player that doesn't like to shoot.

Oh I see, you want proof of a good draft 2-4 years later. You just keep on judging drafts 2-4 years out, and we'll keep on ignoring you

Which is kind of my point, Oiler have have been celebrating the fact Lowe and co. are worlds better since taking over. Hf's ranking being one of the reasons they say that. Again, the proof is nowhere to be found, and the jury is still out, especially when those discussions happened several years ago. Though with looking at the first crop to come out of the new scouting grouping, the pendulum is certainl swinging in one direction...