Hey Refs... question for you.

Discussion in 'The Rink' started by Frank Drebin, Jan 7, 2007.

  1. Frank Drebin

    Frank Drebin Habs Sponsor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2004
    Messages:
    18,454
    Likes Received:
    1,450
    Trophy Points:
    170
    Location:
    Edmonton
    There seems to be quite a few knowledgeable posters in this forum who know the rules of the game and how they should be called.

    My situation:

    I'm a goalie, the other team had a delayed penalty coming up against them. I skated to our bench for the extra guy when the ref's arm went up. Our bench was on the far side of the rink (not that it really matters, just helping you picture the situation.) When I got within 5-10 feet of the bench, a guy jumped over the boards for the extra attacker... the thing is the defensemen at the gate closer to the net was watching the play and didn't open the gate. I kinda ****ed the dog getting to the other gate instead of jumping the boards and the ref blew the play down and gave us a too many men penalty. Someone on the team said it should be just blown dead...

    What is the proper call?

    BTW refs...I don't know how you guys put up with the **** that you do... you guys deserve a :clap:
     
  2. Crosby87.*

    Crosby87.* Guest

    I'm pretty sure it's suppose to be blown dead for an "Illegal Substitution" call. No penalty.
     
  3. MikeD

    MikeD Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2006
    Messages:
    1,066
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Machinist
    Location:
    Buffalo NY
    Home Page:
    5 feet is what your given. When you went the length of the bench instead of getting off the ice, it became an illegal substitution. Normally, it would be a stoppage unless the opponent has the puck.

    If the player taking the ice takes part in the play before you get off the ice a TMM is the correct call.
     
  4. If the player comes off the bench early (10 feet is the rule in Canada) and he does not touch the puck or get involved otherwise with the play (in which case Too Many Players is the right call, no matter how close you are to the bench), the play should be blown dead, no penalty, and a faceoff at centre ice.
     
  5. WashCapsfan4life8

    WashCapsfan4life8 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2007
    Messages:
    263
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Virginia

    It was the right call. If the goalie is not on the bench by like 5 seconds i think or less they call too many men. happened to me a couple of times
     
  6. Jawsh

    Jawsh Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    208
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I have a couple of questions for all the refs out there. Mainly unlikely situations:

    1. If there is a delayed penalty call, and there is a penalty shot also (as in, there was a delayed penalty about to happen, and then, say a breakaway and a penalty shot called) and the team scores on the ensuing shot, is the penalty waved or is it still called?



    2. If a goaltender is playing in a shut-out situation, and there is a delayed penalty call and the goaltender is pulled for an extra attacker, and somehow (it's been done) the puck goes into the empty net without the play being blown down (and the goal stands) and the goaltender does not allow any goals for the rest of the game, does it count for a shutout? Technically, the goaltender did not allow any goals in the net..


    Some things I've always wondered..
     
  7. MikeD

    MikeD Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2006
    Messages:
    1,066
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Machinist
    Location:
    Buffalo NY
    Home Page:
    Scenario 2 can happen. Should the goalie leave for the bench on a delayed penalty and his own team mate puts the puc kin hsi own net it is a goal.

    no shut out if there is a goal scored against, including an empty net.
    to add: 2 goalies have played in a game where the opponents are shut out. Goalie who was in net for the first goal by his team gets said shut out and win.
     
  8. MikeD

    MikeD Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2006
    Messages:
    1,066
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Machinist
    Location:
    Buffalo NY
    Home Page:
    There is no time limit/restriction. The goalie could be on the ice right at the door as well as the extra player on the ice. As long as neither "participate in the play" there can be no TMM penalty. (USA) IF a Ref told you that I would suggest asking him to point that out to you in the rule book(post game).
     
  9. Gino 14

    Gino 14 Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    812
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

    There are two penalties in this scenario, the delayed penalty is still called even if the penalty shot scores.
     
  10. FLYLine27*

    FLYLine27* BUCH

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2004
    Messages:
    42,410
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    PO
    Location:
    NY

    Thats correct, and the faceoff would be at center ice. The ref obviously did not know the rule.



    It would have been the right call if the puck came to you as your player who jumped off the bench was already on the ice and then you played the puck on your way to the bench.
     
  11. Playing the puck isn't a black-and-white criteria for calling Too Many Players, at least not in Hockey Canada's rulebook. Getting involved in the play, at the referee's discretion, gets your bench a minor penalty.

    As for the shutout inquiry, although it's been answered correctly (I'm somewhat certain anyway), that is not an area referees concern themselves with. That has to do with any given league's rules regarding statistics.
     
  12. FLYLine27*

    FLYLine27* BUCH

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2004
    Messages:
    42,410
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    PO
    Location:
    NY
    If the puck hits you by accident going to the bench or something then play just continues (no whistle either)..but in USA rules if you actually play the puck intentionally with your stick, skate, etc then its TMM.
     
  13. It's the same here in Canada.

    What I was trying to say, is that being "involved with the play" does not have to involve the puck at all. (Of course, under Hockey Canada rules.) If in the referee's opinion, you, as the 6th player on the ice, are "involved in the play", your bench is getting a minor penalty for Too Many Players.
     
  14. MikeD

    MikeD Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2006
    Messages:
    1,066
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Machinist
    Location:
    Buffalo NY
    Home Page:
    I know in USA even an accidental touch of the puck by the goalie or the substituting player while both are still on the ice IS considered participating in the play and should generate a TMM. Reason being is the difficulty in determining accidental or not. Taking a skating lane and forcing another player out of his/hers near the puck IS participating in play...etc etc. As above said...its not just about touching the puck.

    Lots of adult rec league refs will not make this call and just let play continue if they feel its "accidental or incidental" contact with the puck.
     
  15. MikeD

    MikeD Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2006
    Messages:
    1,066
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Machinist
    Location:
    Buffalo NY
    Home Page:
    Isnt the delayed penalty assessed before the penalty shot is even taken? Penalized player takes the box and serves after the penalty shot is taken, correct?
     
  16. Both the penalty shot and delayed penalty occur, technically, at the same time. The penalty shot is awarded and the other minor penalty is assessed, regardless of the result of the penalty shot.

    Penalty shots do not result in powerplay goals. The penalty shot is a penalty itself. If you get a penalty shot while already on the powerplay and you score, the player in the box does not get out.
     
  17. Gino 14

    Gino 14 Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    812
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I mis-worded my answer, but, yes, the delayed penalty is served even if the penalty shot is good.
     

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"