Have you guys seen what the Yanks payroll will be ( relates to NHL)

[Trottier]

The 2005 Yankee team has the potential to be the best team in baseball history.

Randy Johnson Mike Mussina Carl Pavano Jaret Wright Kevin Brown - if all of them are on their A games, that is the game's best rotation ever. Rivera/Gordon/Karsay/Quantrill/F-Rodrigez/Stanton/Koo/Sturtze is the best bullpen ever and the lineup (with or without Beltran) could be the best murders row ever.

Are our memories that short?

No question that the Yankees will be favorites to win it all going into 2005. But they were the best team going into the the last four years. On paper means ZIP. NADA. Just ask the NY Rangers, 1998-2004.

One wants to get excited and ahead of yourself based on the HYPE of offseason acquisitions, no one is stopping you. Point is, big names and the spending of big money guarantees nothing. But that won't stop some from exaggerating the correlation between big payrolls and championships. (There is, in fact, a correlation, just not nearly as severe as some would suggest.)

The Yankees might win 1 of every 3 World Series championships for the next 50 years, but that's more than enough reason to fix this mess.

What "mess"? (In baseball). Please be specific.

And, if 1 out of 3 World Series championships is unexceptable, what would be OK by you? How would you like to re-engineer it? would 1 out of 4 be acceptable? And who do we want to wee in the intervening years? Joking with you, but you get the point. Geremandering is geremandering, period. And for all the fretting with the mess in bball, the sport has had four different champions the last four seasons...none from NY.

(And I am not a Yankee fan.)

 

[Donnie D]

oh really? baseball has never been more popular and healthy. baseball is so popular that that it doesn't even have an offseason. the nhl work stoppage is going on because the league isn't making money. baseball owners are making money and won't shut the game down.

Say what?

Baseball has become a regional sport - centered in New York and Boston. It no longer has any national relevance. World Series viewing has never recovered from the pre 94 strike levels. (This year was up because of the Boston situation.) All star ratings are the lowest ever. Attendance still lags behind the pre strike years.

 

[RangerBoy]

In addition to that, I think Tino Martinez will eventually be a $3 million backup for Carlos Delgado.

No the Yankees still have Jason Giambi on the roster.It's not an easy task to move that contract

 

[hockeytown9321]

Who's going to watch a "sport" with a predetermined outcome?

I don't know. A lot of sports, including hockey, have had more dominant teams than the current Yankees, and millions of people watched them. Alot of people watch wrestling and reality TV, which are predetermined events that pretend to be real.

 

[txomisc]

But they were the best team going into the the last four years. On paper means ZIP. NADA. Just ask the NY Rangers, 1998-2004.

despite very high payrolls the rangers never looked like their roster was the best team on paper....they simply looked like they overpayed a bunch of guys

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Can baseball even be considered a 'sport' anymore? The payroll discrepencies are so out of whack that Pro-Wrestling has more legitimacy in my book:


The Yankees have double the average player salary than the next piggish spender (Boston) and a whopping seven times the average player salary than the bottom team.

http://www.post-gazette.com/popup.a...gazette.com/images3/20041222apmlbsalaries.jpg

Thank god hockey owners have some sense. I have no clue why anyone one outside of Boston or New York would spend a dime on a ticket to a baseball game. If hockey goes that route, I would hope that fans in cities not named Detroit or Toronto leave hockey as well, no matter how great a game it is to watch.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

As bad as the NHL work staoppage is, it's going to pale in comparison to the one brewing when baseball's current CBA is set to expire.

not really, the only thing that needs to be worked on is the threshold and severity of the tax and the possible implementation of a cap. The 2 sides are more or less at peace right now. The current agreement likely just needs some tweaking. There will likely be no work stoppage.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

Say what?

Baseball has become a regional sport - centered in New York and Boston. It no longer has any national relevance. World Series viewing has never recovered from the pre 94 strike levels. (This year was up because of the Boston situation.) All star ratings are the lowest ever. Attendance still lags behind the pre strike years.

ignorance is bliss. http://www.sportsfanmagazine.com/content/view/835/72/

Baseball is on a steady rise and ahead of 1994 levels. Took a while, but they are on the up and up. In fact, baseball broke the attendence record this season of 4 years ago despite losing 19 games due to weather cancellations in september.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

When was the last time the Yankees won? When was the last time a small market team won?

ironically it was in 2003 when the Marlins beat the Yankees :lol

 

[Evman*]

Each team gets about $850,000 from the Yankees due to the luxury tax. A team might be able to convince Tom Candiotti out of retirement to serve up some dancers for that kind of coin.

Seriously, good for the owners if they pocket the money. It's pretty much nothing in the big picture anyway.

 

[CoolburnIsGone]

ironically it was in 2003 when the Marlins beat the Yankees :lol

Even more ironically is that the Yankees signed Carl Pavano away from the Marlins. And it wasn't like they severely overpaid either. The Marlins offered a 3 yr deal for $21 million ($7 mil/yr) and the Yankees offered a 4 yr deal for $40 million ($10 mil/yr). Pavano coming off a 18-8 season with a 3.00 ERA recording 212 strikeouts seems like he deserves the money (and he was an integral part of the Marlins World Series team going 2-0 in 8 games in the postseason with a 1.40 ERA but was mostly used as a middle reliever). I'm thinking that Pavano might even be the better pickup by the Yankees this offseason over Johnson.

 

[Motown Beatdown]

Even more ironically is that the Yankees signed Carl Pavano away from the Marlins. And it wasn't like they severely overpaid either. The Marlins offered a 3 yr deal for $21 million ($7 mil/yr) and the Yankees offered a 4 yr deal for $40 million ($10 mil/yr). Pavano coming off a 18-8 season with a 3.00 ERA recording 212 strikeouts seems like he deserves the money (and he was an integral part of the Marlins World Series team going 2-0 in 8 games in the postseason with a 1.40 ERA but was mostly used as a middle reliever). I'm thinking that Pavano might even be the better pickup by the Yankees this offseason over Johnson.

Just to add to that, Pavano pretty much signed for the same price the Tigers were offering for him. So the Yanks didn't even overpay for him since the Tigers were more than willing to give him that much money and maybe more if he came to the Tigers and asked for more.

 

[Trottier]

despite very high payrolls the rangers never looked like their roster was the best team on paper....they simply looked like they overpayed a bunch of guys

Respectfully, that's a bit of a revisionist point of view, an after-the-fact claim. Research these boards during the summers of 2001, '02, after NYR went on spending sprees for FAs. Or when they acquired Lindros, etc. Many posters, and not just NYR homers, were hyperventilating over the moves. Of course, they overeacted and were mistaken. Just as some who might jump to conclusions about NYY circa 2005.

...The payroll discrepencies are so out of whack...The Yankees have double the average player salary than the next piggish spender (Boston) and a whopping seven times the average player salary than the bottom team.

That's brilliant (and your "piggish" comment reeks of cla$$ envy). However, the question must be asked: how have those payroll discrepancies played out on the field of competition? Answer: One championship over the last four years between the two teams (NYY and Boston) mentioned above. Meanwhile if fans in other cities like Phoenix, Anaheim, and Miami took your advice and turned off the game, they would have mised World Championships being won by their home teams during that same time period.

Fact is, they aren't turning off. Despite the demogaugues, baseball's economic situation is markedly better since their last CBA, labor peace is relatively in tact (as mentioned above) and no team is buying championships. Darn, those facts are nasty little things, eh?

 

[Donnie D]

ignorance is bliss. [/QUOTE] It certainly is. W... 31,600 before the strike and 30,600 in 2004.

 

[txomisc]

Respectfully, that's a bit of a revisionist point of view, an after-the-fact claim. Research these boards during the summers of 2001, '02, after NYR went on spending sprees for FAs. Or when they acquired Lindros, etc. Many posters, and not just NYR homers, were hyperventilating over the moves. Of course, they overeacted and were mistaken. Just as some who might jump to conclusions about NYY circa 2005.

hmm i guess you could be right. i dont recall feeling or seeing any hype back then but i wasnt really around here then either.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

..... as a ps to my remarks earlier, a blue ribbon panel actually recommended adding a team or even two to the NY market, as well as the Boston and LA Markets, a couple of others, as the best way to restore competitive balance, making the Yankees, etc compete for dollars.

 

[Cloned]

No the Yankees still have Jason Giambi on the roster.It's not an easy task to move that contract

I heard somewhere that the Yankees are going to try to void Giambi's contract, because he may never be able to play at a high level again due to his health issues. Personally I think the PA would never allow it, but stranger things have happened.

Regardless, I think if no one signs Delgado soon the Yankees may not be able to resist the temptation to go for him, even if it means they have 25-30 million dollars invested in the first base position in one year.

 

[hockeytown9321]

I heard somewhere that the Yankees are going to try to void Giambi's contract, because he may never be able to play at a high level again due to his health issues. Personally I think the PA would never allow it, but stranger things have happened.

They're going to try and void it based on his admitted steroid use.

 

[Dr Love]

the bigger crime is the teams thats get the yankees luxary tax money and don't spend it to improve the team.

Exactly, and it's yet another reason why the NHL shouldn't have a luxury tax. There is no guarantee that the money will be used, and in all likelihood 80% of it won't be.

 

[hockeytown9321]

..... as a ps to my remarks earlier, a blue ribbon panel actually recommended adding a team or even two to the NY market, as well as the Boston and LA Markets, a couple of others, as the best way to restore competitive balance, making the Yankees, etc compete for dollars.

A blue ribbon panel? I'm appeased.

 

[Cloned]

They're going to try and void it based on his admitted steroid use.

Yeah, that was it. While I think the PA will fight it, regardless of whether the contract is voided or not I still think Delgado may be a Yankee come next season.

 

[trentmccleary]

And, if 1 out of 3 World Series championships is unexceptable, what would be OK by you? How would you like to re-engineer it? would 1 out of 4 be acceptable? And who do we want to wee in the intervening years? Joking with you, but you get the point. Geremandering is geremandering, period. And for all the fretting with the mess in bball, the sport has had four different champions the last four seasons...none from NY.

I'd just rather not know who was going to win every 3rd World Series for the next 50 years in 2005. I wouldn't care if a team ended up winning 20 of them... but I hate knowing which team that is right now. What's the point of watching baseball in a marketplace that doesn't look like it's ever going to change?

What system could bring back spontaneity?

 

[Winger98]

What system could bring back spontaneity?

spontaneity or equal opportunity to build a winner? Sorry, getting a bit nit picky with this, but it's a problem that also faces the NHL. People keep saying competitive balance, but what's the definition of competitive balance? Is it that every team has a relatively good shot at being a contender every year? Or is it the opportunity (affordability?) to construct and maintain a team over a long number of years?

The only thing I don't want to see from this CBA is an increase in roster turnover, but I'm not sure that'll be possible to find with any system.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

spontaneity or equal opportunity to build a winner? Sorry, getting a bit nit picky with this, but it's a problem that also faces the NHL. People keep saying competitive balance, but what's the definition of competitive balance? Is it that every team has a relatively good shot at being a contender every year? Or is it the opportunity (affordability?) to construct and maintain a team over a long number of years?

The only thing I don't want to see from this CBA is an increase in roster turnover, but I'm not sure that'll be possible to find with any system.

I do not think that any, even the most ardent of Cap supporters, wants as a goal 'that every team has a relatively good shot at being a contender every year.' Or even that the playing field be made 'even' down to the amount you pay a coach or scout. All that is asked for is to remove the most aggregious of unlevelling influence which creates massive resentment and undermines the credibility of a game as a real sport. When aggregate salaries reach multiples between high spenders and low spenders you are there (in the case of the Yankees the multiple has reached tenfold).

The game ceases to be seen as a competition but more akin to a mile race between you and me where most everything else is equal except that you get to start halfway to the finish line. After a while, I really do not care to race against you even though every once in a while you might trip and fall and I may win. And how 'proud' can you be about your subsidized win? And a sport? Give me a break, non cap sports are a joke, not a sport.

 

[Trottier]

I'd just rather not know who was going to win every 3rd World Series for the next 50 years in 2005. I wouldn't care if a team ended up winning 20 of them... but I hate knowing which team that is right now. What's the point of watching baseball in a marketplace that doesn't look like it's ever going to change?

What system could bring back spontaneity?

I understand where you are coming from, and was just tweaking you.


You know, there really is no "ideal" situation. Baseball, as you and others points out has its competitive flaws, by virtue of uneven spending, though I will submit that the Yankees "dominance" is not nearly what some would lead you to believe, certainly not through the first five years of the 21st Century.

Likewise, look at the NFL, which is held up by some as this virtue of excellence. Financial excellence for its owners, no doubt. But competitively, it has its flaws, too. Too wit, we are one week away from a potential NFC championship game featuring...two 8-8 teams! That is, if the Vikings and Rams managed victories next week, they could be playing the following Sunday for the right to play in the SuperBowl. Mediocrity personafied, by virtue of that league's economic system.

Personally, and putting aside for a nanosecond the economic flaws in the NHL, the level of competition is just right, IMO. You have perennially strong franchises, which I consider VERY GOOD for the league. Likewise, you seemingly have annual "cinderellas," which is also good.

The irony/hypocrisy is when fans who bemoan teams with high payrolls that maintain a high level of play over many years (such as NJD, Colorado and Detroit) also complain that the "cinderellas" are "only" one-year wonders.