Have the Sabres ever had a true Number 1 Defenceman?

[Husko]

Stating that Brian Campbell, who's managed to finish top ten in scoring for defensemen a few times, wasn't a bona fide #1 defenseman has absolutely no bearing on whether Erik Karlsson, who regularly leads the league in defenseman scoring, is a #1 defenseman is a completely ridiculous argument. Karlsson is as elite of an offensive defenseman as they come. Campbell, while he certainly had elite seasons offensively, is nowhere near the same caliber of offensive talent.

The real argument in favor of Campbell is one that revolves around what exactly makes a "#1" defenseman. If that simply means being one of the 30 best defensemen in the league (which is the definition that makes the most sense since there are 30 teams in the league), then 2007-08 Campbell, even with his defensive deficiencies, most likely qualifies.

That said, it seems that most people think of a "#1 defenseman" as an all situations defenseman who can anchor a Stanley Cup winner. If that's the definition, then it's a far weaker argument in favor of Campbell.

Agreed on where the discussion splits.

I prefer the second definition. The first definition would mean that if I use the phrase '#1 QB' that there are 32 of them that fit that description in the NFL, and all Bills fans should know that isn't true.

 

[Ball1374]

Not to start a flame war of any sorts, but can you guys explain the love for Zhitnik? Maybe it's because I was a kid/teenager during his years here, but growing up playing during that time, he always seemed like the last guy I wanted to model myself after. Yeah, he ate up minutes, but I always felt he was a horrible in his zone, with a bomb of a shot that seemed the find the glass more than the net. Warrener-McKee seemed more of the #1 pair, made of up two second pair defensemen, if that makes sense, but I would've taken them over Zhitnik any day of the week.

I do agree with Jame that Smehlik was so underrated in his time here. Led the back end in points in 1993-94, and was solid in both zones. That being said, could you consider Garry Galley a #1 when he was here? He took over for Bodger after we sent him to San Jose, and I remember a piece from ESPN at the time where they focused on him in the locker room and he was a very vocal leader for the young guys coming from Rochester. Just a thought from my end regarding those mid 90's D-cores we had.

 

[Paxon]

Not to start a flame war of any sorts, but can you guys explain the love for Zhitnik? Maybe it's because I was a kid/teenager during his years here, but growing up playing during that time, he always seemed like the last guy I wanted to model myself after. Yeah, he ate up minutes, but I always felt he was a horrible in his zone, with a bomb of a shot that seemed the find the glass more than the net. Warrener-McKee seemed more of the #1 pair, made of up two second pair defensemen, if that makes sense, but I would've taken them over Zhitnik any day of the week.

I do agree with Jame that Smehlik was so underrated in his time here. Led the back end in points in 1993-94, and was solid in both zones. That being said, could you consider Garry Galley a #1 when he was here? He took over for Bodger after we sent him to San Jose, and I remember a piece from ESPN at the time where they focused on him in the locker room and he was a very vocal leader for the young guys coming from Rochester. Just a thought from my end regarding those mid 90's D-cores we had.

Zhitnik was not horrible in his zone. His shot missing the net is accurate.

 

[Myllz]

Wooley?

Woolley wasn't partnered with Z.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

His shot missing the net is accurate.

Wait, what?!?

 

[Samsonite23]

Woolley wasn't partnered with Z.

I was really young watching so I could be wrong. Maybe I was thinking PP?

Wasn't that a pair in the late 90s?

Edit: Just noticed I mispelled his name. Always do that.

 

[Afino]

I miss Zhitnik-Smehlik

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Who did Zhitnik hit in the head with a puck ? I want to say Connolly or Afinogenov.

 

[Chainshot]

Who did Zhitnik hit in the head with a puck ? I want to say Connolly or Afinogenov.

That list seems far too short.

 

[dugman]

That list seems far too short.

Heh, heh. It seems to me that Varada nearly lost part of his ear from a Zhitnik shot, but that could be wrong.

 

[hizzoner]

I think Tim Horton and Jim Schoenfeld were. Not in the class of Orr, Potvin etc. but definitely number ones. I liked Korab. Zhitnik had the tools but could not put his great skills to proper use-especially his shooting accuracy...

 

[Bearbait]

I don't think comparing past players by todays standards of what a #1 is supposed to be is fair. In the 1980's with 1 minute left in the game and protecting a 1 goal lead, Ramsey was the man to have on the ice. If we were down one, Housley was the go to guy.

And you can't really judge players by how Scotty Bowman used them either, he had Housley all over the ice from one game to the next for several years actually. You never knew from shift to shift where he might show up.

 

[Yatzhee]

Jerry Korab. 2 time all star, was getting 40+ points & 100+ penalty minutes during his run through the 70s.

Bingo!
Jerry Korab was absolutely a #1.
So was Zhitnik and Campbell.

 

[Myllz]

I was really young watching so I could be wrong. Maybe I was thinking PP?

Wasn't that a pair in the late 90s?

Edit: Just noticed I mispelled his name. Always do that.

I don't remember who was on the powerplay with Z, so it's possible. As was mentioned, Smehlik was his partner for a long time, then Kalinin took over that spot in the early 2000's.

 

[Onry]

Schoenfeld. What a warrior. Dominant on this team at his time.

 

[brian_griffin]

This is a weird place for this debate, but was Doug Bodger a true #1?

Didn't Bowman use Van Boxmeer as a #1 for a time?

Van Boxmeer was brought in for offense, in particular power-play point, IIRC. I don't remember him as standing out in any superlative way. (and it may be that Bowman wanted to trade Rene Robert more than anything else)

Brian Campbell in 07-08 most definitely...43 points in 63 games and averaged over 25 (!) minutes a game. He wasn't a shutdown dman but he was adequate. Obviously San Jose and Chicago felt he was a #1 type dman seeing what San Jose traded and how much Chicago paid in free agency for him.

How much someone pays for a D-man doesn't establish their "number-one-ness", and Chicago's defense was so deep, it's hard to argue Campbell as a #1 on those squads.

Jerry Korab. 2 time all star, was getting 40+ points & 100+ penalty minutes during his run through the 70s.

(see below)

I think Tim Horton and Jim Schoenfeld were. Not in the class of Orr, Potvin etc. but definitely number ones. I liked Korab. Zhitnik had the tools but could not put his great skills to proper use-especially his shooting accuracy...

I barely saw Orr play, and his knees were shot by then. I saw a lot of Potvin, Robinson, Savard (post-knee-injury) and Guy LaPointe. IIRC, those 4 were perrenially on the 1st and 2nd All-NHL teams of the 1970s. The Flyers had an OK defense but no individuals on par with those 4. I'd put any Sabre defenseman on a second tier behind those 4 guys, along with Brad Park.. I remember when Randy Carlyle won a Norris with Pittsburgh.

It might be argued the Sabres had the second-best overall 5-man defensive unit of the 1970s (behind Montreal) in terms of balance / talent with Korab, Schoenfeld, Guevremont, Hajt, Fogolin.

Personally, I always liked Bill Hajt as a steady consistent defenseman. Lot of minutes, tough matchups, consistent, tall, physical but not dirty. Rarely took the foolish penalty. Exceptional positional play and defensive stick. ALWAYS played the PK. Relatively slow skater, and his shot was neither hard, nor quick to release, but defensively, he was as solid as any other team's #1.

 

[comeonnow]

Housely?

 

[dugman]

I thought that Canadian teams were the only ones that have defencemen, and that the Sabres have defensemen...

 

[gvandeke]

So, the overwhelming answer the OP, "Yes, they have had a 1D." But, when you ask ten people, you have ten different answers as to whom that wouid be: Housley, Campbell, Zhitbik, etc.

 

[BloFan4Life]

In what world was Brian Campbell NOT a number 1 D man?? Other player Buffalo fans underestimated just because they watch no other hockey around the league. Just because the guy got traded doesn't mean he sucks.

If you think Campbell isn't a number 1 D man, then neither is Risto, unless he improves dramatically in his own zone.

 

[tsujimoto74]

In what world was Brian Campbell NOT a number 1 D man?? Other player Buffalo fans underestimated just because they watch no other hockey around the league. Just because the guy got traded doesn't mean he sucks.

If you think Campbell isn't a number 1 D man, then neither is Risto, unless he improves dramatically in his own zone.

Campbell only started to really break out his last few years with Buffalo. He wasn't a #1 d-man most of his time here.

 

[The Red Helmet]

So I guess if Housley isn't a number one, then Coffey isn't either.

 

[Selanne00008]

Housley.

What about Mike Ramsey?

Risto starting next year?

Wow I haven't referenced a high shot from the point in my hockey league as a "Zhitnik" in 10 years haha.